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Old November 25, 2020, 02:20 PM   #1
Commander47
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return to reloading

As the title says. I haven't been reloading in a long time. I have recently discovered I need to reload a LOT more. Especially due to the shortage of some of my favorite calibers.

My press is a 30 plus year old Lee 2001 Challenger. Now before you all start laughing, this is a great press and has served me very well in the past.

At the time I was only loading two calibers, .45 ACP and .223/5.56. The dies are in great shape, and I intend to load them again.....a LOT.

I also want to load .380, 38 spec and .308 nato.

My reload book is a ahem, err, ahh. 30 plus year old Speer. It is a good book, but I must admit, sadly outdated. I will be getting a new one. I'm looking at the Lee second edition.

There are a few things I'd like to find for my press that hope some members can help me with as I'm a bit confused with the new equipment.

1. I want the deluxe automatic powder charger that scews into the top of the press and charges when shaping the case. I can't tell if any of the Lee products will actually work in my old press.

2. I also want the automatic load primer. My press pushes the primer in from the bottom while the cartridge is held on top. The primer I like is one that fits on the side with a little lever to load it on the die on the way up. Unfortunately, the one Lee offers now doesn't say it fits the 2001 Challenger.

I really want to do accurate powder and not use the scoops like I did years ago. I also don't want to have to fumble with primers at my age.

Any tips and advice is appreciated.
Thanks.
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Old November 25, 2020, 02:41 PM   #2
jetinteriorguy
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Both the Lee Auto Drum and the Lee Pro Auto Disc work with the Lee powder through expander die that come with Lee dies. The Lee Deluxe Perfect Powder Measure will work directly through the press without a powder through die but you would have to flare the cases as a separate operation. My recommendation would be the Deluxe Perfect Powder Measure on a separate stand since your reloading on a single stage. As for priming do it off the press, for older arthritic hands like mine I’ve found the Frankford Arsenal tool to work great.
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Old November 25, 2020, 04:24 PM   #3
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Quote:
1. I want the deluxe automatic powder charger that scews into the top of the press and charges when shaping the case. I can't tell if any of the Lee products will actually work in my old press.
jetinteriorguy beat me to it. Both the powder measures he mentioned mount on the Lee powder-through expander die. They don't mount to the press, so they will work with the Lee die in any press.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jet...
The Lee Deluxe Perfect Powder Measure will work directly through the press without a powder through die but you would have to flare the cases as a separate operation.
Not sure, but I think the Perfect Powder Measure will work with the Powder Through expander die. I think it will be a manual operation, but I think it will mount to the die.

I use the Pro Autodisk and I've been very satisfied with it. But I do all handgun -- I don't know if it has the capacity for .223/5.56
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Old November 25, 2020, 05:16 PM   #4
ballardw
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Why would we laugh at equipment that works?
My primary press is the RCBS A2 my dad started me on reloading in 1962 (mostly just sizing as I was 7 at the time).
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Old November 25, 2020, 06:07 PM   #5
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While a noble idea, components right now are very hard to acquire.
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Old November 25, 2020, 06:33 PM   #6
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Welcome to the forum and welcome back to this pastime.

I would not trust the old Speer data without confirming it. Old data was developed in production guns using pressure signs to hint at what was or wasn't acceptable. Today it is confirmed on proper pressure measuring instruments. Additionally, powder burn rates were not as well controlled then, so you find loads that may have been developed with a powder slower or faster burning than is typical now and that can lead to high pressures. Your gun may be tighter than the one used to develop the loads, and that leads to pressure increases, too.

The Lee book has a lot of good information but is getting a little long in the tooth now, too. Also, its data is mostly borrowed from other sources. I would look at the list of online data sources in the sticky at the top of this forum, but go to the powder manufacturer's data first, then look at data from your particular bullet maker (some have data online or will email it to you free for a particular bullet and cartridge combination) and arrive your load ideas between the two sources.

Unfortunately, due to the high sales volume caused by the virus and the summer riots, gun sales have been through the roof (the NSSF estimates something over 6 million new first-time buyers so far this year) and at the same time, the virus has interfered with overseas manufacturing and importing of ammunition. So, primers and much of the other factory component capacity is all going to making loaded ammunition and the shelves are pretty bare for reloaders until it passes.
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Old November 25, 2020, 09:21 PM   #7
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I hope you take this with the humor I mean it to, but it reminds me of the movie Airplane.

The guy in charge of the airport (Loyd Bridge?) keeps muttering, I sure picked the wrong time to quit smoking! (or drinking) (or words to that affect)

Component shortages are acute (once again, sigh)

If you can find them, a lot of new powders are out there.

The one recommendation is to get Sierra's latest manual as they are very good at listing a lot of different powders for any given bullet weight (you can cross check loads with on line sources or a second manual).

If you have the money, I would get Hornady 10 manual as well. Same thing, lots of powders and some of the newer ones that Sierra might not have listed (R17 for instance which is a very good 4350 class powder)

I don't know if its hopeful or not, but I got my back order of bullets in from Mid South. As I try to get in bulk, I asked if the 175s were back in stock, they were. Its been so long my credit card had aged out. So I got one order 4 months ago and the second one this last week but back in stock.

There may be hope and possibility to order in the lower 48 we do not have. I have seen some rifle primers on the shelf but not many. Powder is mostly gone though some, bullets are like a Hurricane came through and swept the shelf.

Once I am vaccinated for Covd, I am going to put up all my old bullets for sale (9mm and 223 I don't plan on loading much if any now) - I should be able to make a killing!
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Old November 25, 2020, 09:47 PM   #8
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Speer 13 is much better than speer 14 in my opinion. I also like the lyman 49, 49, 50 series of reloading manual. They give best powers to try and their picks are good. Lee is not a very good book in my opinion.
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Old November 26, 2020, 10:29 AM   #9
Commander47
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I really want to thank everyone who responded so quickly!!!!

In short order I was put on the path to glory. After a thorough review of the Lee Auto Drum, Auto disc, Deluxe perfect powder and perfect powder, I believe I found a cost effective solution to my dilemma.

I really like the new auto drum as it will charge a round automatically. The cheesy little toilet safety chain can be removed which was a plus. Some of my research indicated problems with 9mm and other binding issues. I don't load 9mm, nor do I ever plan to, BUT, you never know.

The Auto disc setup is pretty nice as well. My only issue with that is "all those discs". I'm just not fond of a lot of parts and things.

The Deluxe Perfect Powder loader is great. AND, Lee DOES make lots of adapters that will fit my expander dies. I really like the micrometer adjustment for the charge. It seems to be very accurate and I like that. Simply set the micrometer, test weigh a couple charges to make sure you have what you want, then record the settings and have at it. That son of a gun is about $80-100.

Ironically, the Perfect Powder Measure, which is designed by Lee to be a stand alone charger, is less than half that price. Has the micrometer like the Deluxe.

As luck would have it, this outfit has an adapter for the perfect powder measure!!!

So that is what I'm doing. There are Perfect Powder measures available between $10-50 and I'm working on that now.

https://gun-guides.com/The-Perfect-H...2%AE-p83298020

The Auto Prime II is a bit of a challenge for me. I have the die, so I hate to not use it as I see those for sale up to $100.00!!!! But without the plastic trough and tray I have to place each primer manually. UGH!!!! A hand primer is an option. But all that squeezing!!!! A woman, YES....priming? Ugh.

I found the trays, but the troughs seem to be hiding in deep cover.

I'm leaning toward the updated Speer manual. but still want to look.

Seems to me this craziness is the excuse i needed to get back into reloading. The only reason I sort of faded out was that ammo was so cheap back in the day. It hardly seemed worth it.

BUT NOW!!!!! sheesh, over a buck a round for .380? Really? Seriously? I was at the Atlanta Gun show last week and found some nice heavy Federal for $40.00 for 50 rounds. All that pushing and shoving to get two boxes. Ugh.

I also want to experiment with different .45 and .308 loads.

.38? what is the deal with .38? .380 and .38 are STILL the most common personal defense rounds. Regardless of how you feel about them, .380 and .38 are the "go to" round for most self defense folks. ESPECIALLY women.

My daughters and grand daughters love their .380 autos a
nd .38 hammerless revolvers.

I was looking at dies, and .380 dies are easily going for twice what other calibers are.

It seems to me, that some of this "shortage" is a bit contrived.
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Old November 26, 2020, 11:07 AM   #10
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Welcome back to reloading!

I'm still using my Lee 4 hole turret press that i bought when i first got into it. It's my go to.
I have the Auto Disk with the "expanded kit". Lets you run 2 disks to increase the powder volume.
I also have the adjustable disk. Has a screw in the front which changes the volume of the disk opening. Great for pistol reloading.
The bad of the disk setup is that fine ball powders find all the little openings in the disk setup, and you end up with powder being "spilled" around the dies, press, table.

The bigger box retailers are running out of things fairly quickly.
A stop to your local gun shop can pay huge dividends on finding your reloading supplies!

As for manuals.
I agree with the Sierra VI, and Hornady X.
Hodgdon has an annual "manual" that can be found in the magazine section of Barnes & Noble, or many other book stores.
Alliant also has an annual release.

Online you can get Hornady, Alliant, Ramshot/Western Powders, Barnes, VihtaVouri manuals that can be downloaded for free.
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Old November 26, 2020, 03:26 PM   #11
RC20
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As I am a single press reloader I can't help any with the Lee progressive. One of the fun parts is reading how others approach reloading. Single press works for me, my brother has the Single for target (various 30-06 mostly) and the progressive for bulk ammo loads (9mm and 5.56)

I do shoot the evil 9mm (those are a pain to reload) but prior to the panic ammo was so cheap and I am not target shooting like I do the 308/7.5 Swiss and the 30-06.

Sounds like you do your research so go with what works. I have not seen a Speer in a long time. I mainline on the Sierra and Hornady and then grab other data if needed off the web. I have an old Sierra that I broke out their old stuff, new stuff for just those few loads. Good ref on the old one.

Sierra lists two best loads, one hunting and one accuracy.

Quote:
It seems to me, that some of this "shortage" is a bit contrived.
I think far less than that and you just can't get rational thought. We had a neighbor who haunted Sportsmans on the day of the week when the powder came in. I suspect they have 300 lbs of powder in the house.

22 was not to be had, 22? But people wold stock up and some reported 10-15000 rounds. Come the apocalypse and they were all set, but someone meaner would take it away from them.

I did see brick os plinking 22 available the other day in the adds and no restrictions. Have to look, though I suspect same thing.

I have a nice stock of 22 target so am fixed for some time.

First time in my life I buy 8 lb (5 lb R17) jugs of powder. Its too much but now I can shoot for years. I target shoot a lot so it means a lot to me though I hate to have all that money tied up.
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Old November 26, 2020, 09:10 PM   #12
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The Lee Perfect has a plastic drum, and it can be a little difficult with fine spherical powder's working their way between the drum and body. It can be solved with some tweaking and tightening of the drum, but it may not work well automatically that tight.

You can prime on your Challenger using the Lee Ram Prime accessory ($12). You have to place the primers in the cup one at a time, but I used to work that way and I was able to get into a rhythm with it loading by batches. It's not hateful. These days I still use single primer handling with hand priming tools for precision loads, but admit I am spoiled by progressive loading for handgun ammo.
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