.40 s/w reloads excessive flash

[alexander hamilton]

hey guys,
just started reloading for my .40s/w hk usp compact. i initially loaded 30 rounds with 8.4 grains of power pistol. this was the starting load reccomended by "modern reloading" and the data sheet that came with my lee die set. i weighed every single charge on my lee safety scale. my lee perfect powder measure had to be turned up from 7.5 to around 8.5 to get the proper weight charge. i attributed this to the ppm being new. i seated the bullet to around 1.12 oal which between the 1.05 and 1.35 listed. those last numbers im not sure about(going by memory). the point is that the oal was in spec. the bullet was a 135g rainier copper plated bullet. i should also note that the reloads were much louder than the white box i also shot. i would say percieved recoil was up as well. this may have been due to the noise and flash. the flash was roughly twice the diameter of the white box flash and maybe more. any thoughts? is this normal for this load? i know the bullets were super light, my goal was to get a good cheapie load for the range.

thanks

[HSMITH]

Power Pistol is going to flash, no getting around that. Your compact is going to make it just a little worse too. It is a great choice for 40 though.

If you want light recoil try a heavy bullet with a faster powder.

[alexander hamilton]

WOW, thanks for the fast reply. i was really hoping someone would say switch powder and get a heavier bullet. i thought i did something wrong. phew! i have never reloaded on this whole setup before. new kit, new dies, new caliber, everything. i just thought maybe i was in trouble. i inspected the brass to see if i had gone way over pressure. all the brass had a slight bulge over the entire case length but none of the bulging that i have come to understand as bad. i am plenty content to shoot another 1000 rounds just like this as long as i dont blow myself up. next load will probably be some cheap 155g lswc bullets i found at my local gun store. i think i will find a faster powder too. i also noticed some loads with unique and 800x had respectable velocities with super low pressures. any ideas about that? also, how far could i download the power pistol loads?

thanks.

[HSMITH]

Your load should be WAY safe as far as pressure goes as long as the bullet doesn't set back into the case on feeding. Power Pistol has flash and BANG, that is just the way it is. I wouldn't download PP much lower than listed starting loads. If you want lower speeds get a faster powder and use it.

800X will give you fits with the Lee PPM, 800X will give you fits with just about any powder measure made. It is a coarse powder and won't meter well at all. It is also quite slow, so blast will be significant. 800X is a fantastic powder, for CERTAIN applications. Range blasting ammo isn't one of those applications, and I wouldn't recommend 800X for what you want to do.

Unique is a good choice for 40, starting loads with a 155 should shoot nicely with less blast than Power Pistol. Unique is also a great choice for lead bullets. Starting loads with a 180 grain bullet will shoot softer than anything you buy off the shelf, pick up some 180's too and go from there.

[alexander hamilton]

thanks again bro. im going to pick up some unique and clays powders and also some 155 and 180 swc bullets. i appreciate the info on 800x. i have been wondering about what powders were going to work with the lee ppm as i have heard that some coarse powders will tear it up.

[ziggy222]

read what they say at the rainier site.when loading plated bullets you should go by the loads for lead bullets,not jacketed.jacketed bullets have higher loads so that would be why the bigger bang.

[dvfd12]

I have a HK USP40 full size and was told not to fire lead through it does that hold same for plated bullets?

[Lugnut]

I really like the flash of PP... I must still have a little kid in me.

[ryucasta]

Hope this helps...

[Hotdog1911]

First, I'd be a little concerned about that excessive flash & noise. Secondly, I think HK pistols have polygonal rifling. If that is the case then I'd stick with what HK says and shoot only jacketed bullets. No cast and no plated bullets. I'm not sure if this is the case with a USP. But if I am correct, and if you believe in HK products enough to buy one I'd follow their ammo guidelines.

Try 4 different brands of factory ammo. Quality or industry standard ammo. Win White Box, Fed Red box, something Remington & PMC. You don't need the hollow points and 'Killer Kamando' stuff. Try 4 different brands, 50 rds of each should be plenty, and find the range of what normal is in regards to flash & smoke & noise & recoil & accurracy with your gun. Write down your results. Don't sweat it if the bullet weights are not exact between brands. Again, you are looking for a range-not specifics.

If 3 out of the 4 factory loads don't 'huff'en_puff ' like your reloads then you know you are outside of the norm. Who wants to be normal?

With some competitiion shooters I know, their reloads are outside of the norm. Their loads are better than normal...for them. By better I mean less expensive, more accurate, taylored to their gun & purpose. Reloaders reload to please themselves. If they are outside the norm and still safe they don't seem to care.

Keep in mind that Win & Fed, et al, load for the shooting publics' preference. If the public wants a super accurate ammo it's box A, if they want price it's boX B,if they want to shoot ducks & steel targets at 1000 million yards it's box C. Factory ammo places a huge emphasis on making the indiviual rounds uniform so they will function properly in a wide spectrum of guns in that caliber. So you should know what 'normal' is in your gun afterwards.

Sometimes reloaders like to experiment with a caliber that they have already developed a load for. Making the round extremely fast & slow & powerfull & smokie & light, whatever. But that is after they have some confindence & experince.

Excessive noise & flash are two very good indicators that something is not right.

[Shoney]

Why is low flash important???

It’s night. A lightning storm just knocked out electricity. BG is in your house. During lightning flash, you see he has a pistol. You fire your power pistol packed flashy wonder. You are now effectively 100% blind for 2.5 seconds and it takes 13 more seconds to gradually regain night vision.

How many of you have actually shot your personal defense ammo at night?

Flash doesn’t matter????? Yeah!!! Right!!!!!

Best low flash powder I’ve tested VV N340, next WAP, then 231, then AA5. And those results were consistent in 9mm, 40S&W, 45ACP.

[WESHOOT2]

To me, flash doesn't matter (so much that's it worth discussing).

I've done extensive low-light ammo development, and while I prefer lower-flash powders it does NOT normally determine my choice.
I even test in near-absolute darkness (because I can ).

Power Pistol generates considerable flash; fact. There are other high-performance lesser-flash powders available, but we are NOT talking 357 / Blue-Dot levels here.

And, as always, individuals perceive flash differently.

[Lugnut]

Shoney... where I'm from (MA) you better not even think of using reloads for defense ammo. I only use PP for range and plinking. I'd be suprised if many folks use reloads for defense ammo. I also have a flashlight for night shooting.

I've never shot my PP loads in lowlight conditions... I want to try it out soon.

[Hotdog1911]

might be a little sensitive to a new gun & ammo combonation. However, when a shooter reports something out of the ordinary it's a good ideal to listen. Excessive smoke & flash are two good indicators that something maybe amiss.

As for those who are not too concerned with excessive somke & flash indoors or under reduced lighting conditions haven't had their butts handed to them yet. I was lucky. My inititation was under training conditions. Other competitors & students with 60%-70% of my shooting ability waxed me good-they could see-I couldn't!.

It is a bit off the orginal topic, sorry Alex. Good Luck.

[frankxd]

Flash is due to powder burning outside the barrel. Power pistol is a relatively slow burning powder, which is why it is a good "safe" choice for reloading .40. Out of a compact short barrel, it is not going to burn completely and will have flash. If you don't want any flash, use a faster burning powder, but the faster the powder, the less safety you have if you get bullet setback. I prefer safety when reloading for .40 since it is a maximum pressure round, so I exclusively use Power Pistol. I also load longer for safety and accuracy reasons. I load to about 1.150 OAL for my USP-40f. I believe that you can go up to about 1.165 OAL in the USP.

As someone already mentioned that Rainier recommends to use load data for lead bullets rather than FMJ. I have found that the plated bullets fall somewhere in between lead and FMJ. Also, since the Rainier bullets do not cause lead fouling, they are safe to shoot in polygonal barrels (at least, I have found this to be the case- YMMV).

[Shoney]

The first time I shot Power Pistol loads, it was an overcast day at about noon. I was shocked to see the flash of what I thought were starting loads. I took them apart, rechecked the data, and found they were indeed a starting load.

Since I had loaded 10 rounds each with incremental increases, I shot them the next day, which was another overcast day. The max loads were really fireballs.

The first time I shot them at night, with car headlights illuminating the target, I was effectively night blind for a few seconds. Using only a flashlight for illumination, the night blindness was significantly longer. That’s when I embarked on my project of finding low flash powders and manufactured ammo.

EDIT: Flash was worst in 40S&W, and slightly less in 9mm and 45ACP.