October 18, 2019, 11:18 PM | #1 |
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Knife Attacks
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DTCbLn09xgo
In the above video, a man at a Taco Bell told a woman who was berating customers to “Zip it.” She responded by casually walking past him and then slashing his throat with a knife. The wound was 8” long, required 100 stitches to sew up, and came within millimeters of his carotid artery. Like several knife attacks I’ve reviewed, the victim never sees the knife until they’ve been stuck. In some cases, even after the victim has been stuck they don’t realize a knife is involved. I thought this video was instructive because it shows how fast a life-threatening attack can develop and how difficult they can be to defend against. It also shows how easy it is to come across the wrong person in a casual encounter and pay the price for an offhand remark. Last edited by Bartholomew Roberts; October 18, 2019 at 11:23 PM. |
October 18, 2019, 11:39 PM | #2 |
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I saw "Surviving Edged Weapon's" back in the late 80's... still very relevant for LEO's, Corrections and anyone who seeks self defense knowledge. "21 foot rule" has been revised though to 35 feet. Scary stuff as there are so many nutcases out there.
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October 19, 2019, 01:18 AM | #3 |
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weapons
I heard Doug Mircaida, a recognized martial arts guy, make the comment "weapons are to felt and not seen", in regards to blades. The attack described fits in that description. Closing the distance discreetly or casually, to get "in range" with a blade, is part of the knife "technique" or culture, if you will, and I'd bet not the first time the attacker used that practice.
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October 19, 2019, 05:41 AM | #4 |
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"Surviving edged weapons" was an excellent video. I saw it twice.
One of my neighbors was a survivor of a knife attack. His philosophy after the attack is simple. "See blade, shoot to kill."
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October 19, 2019, 08:25 AM | #5 | |
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October 19, 2019, 10:26 AM | #6 |
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The bottom line is that far too many people simply assume that everyone they encounter has similar morals, values and motivations as they do. This isn't about "surviving an edged weapon attack", this is about not being completely oblivious to what is going on around you and especially toward a person or people you have just recently had words with.
This woman does not appear to be an aggressive predator. She is rather unassuming in her size, appearance and the manner that she occupies space in the world. She didn't really seem very invested in the attack and did not seem motivated by a desire to fight him. Based on a couple of seconds of video, she simply seemed like a person who was indifferent to the consequences and risks associated with such conduct and may simply wanted to get back at him, teach him a lesson, reclaim pride or other similar sentiment. What is the take-a-way? Don't put yourself on the radar of bad people and if you do... you probable need to be paying attention.
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October 19, 2019, 10:36 AM | #7 |
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Honestly, that vid is terrifying. Knowing how some people take offense at a casual (but to be honest in this case rude) remark, as a personal insult even, you might expect a simple expletive remark back. Definitely not expect a deadly assault in response but the possibility is always there, and the point is well taken.
Maybe a highly trained individual (not me certainly) could defend against that, but I think avoidance is the best approach. Truly frightening.
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October 19, 2019, 10:44 AM | #8 | |
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The problems surfaced when defenders began to use the old 6-10 foot reactionary gap as the threshold of danger close regarding physical attacks.
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October 19, 2019, 10:57 AM | #9 |
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When we've done the Tueller drill in classes it was notably over 21 ft. The Tueller drill standard distance assumes you know the attack is coming, but in reality it takes time to process that information. Factor in someone carrying concealed versus a service weapon on a duty belt and you have even more time.
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October 19, 2019, 12:37 PM | #10 |
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Great post!!
I have been cut/stabbed 3 times on duty. Twice I saw it coming and was able to deflect it somewhat the third time I did not even see the BG until I was stabbed. I was lucky the third time as he hit my duty belt and the knife missed my right kidney by 3/8" and still went in an inch after going thru the heavy leather belt. It felt like I had been punched and I did not know I was stabbed until a while later (we were in a barfight). Knives scare the crap outta me. The video shows what I have been trying to tell folks for years........ You will not see the attack coming with a good predator.
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October 19, 2019, 12:57 PM | #11 |
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The 21 or 35 foot "rule" doesn't exactly apply to a lunatic with a knife.
"...Knives scare the crap outta me..." Nothing like cold steel to scare people. There have been studies done(don't have any links) that prove soldiers fear bayonets more than bullets. Something 'primal' about it.
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October 19, 2019, 01:37 PM | #12 |
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you don't "get in to it" with somebody and turn your back (ignore them). that's should be the first lesson learned from that taco bell attack.
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October 19, 2019, 02:30 PM | #13 |
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Go out anywhere and look around you where people are waiting for something, anything food, to get a hair cut, at the bank and you will see mindless sheep playing on their cell phones not paying attention to their surroundings. No way I would turn my back to someone who I just had words with, that was stupid and he paid the price in the video.
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October 19, 2019, 04:15 PM | #14 | |
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October 19, 2019, 04:17 PM | #15 |
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Did they catch the assailant and lock her up for attempted murder?
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October 19, 2019, 04:32 PM | #16 |
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The woman, who was “known to police”, got a 7 year sentence for that attack.
Related to this subject; but a different incident - man with knife stabs five armed police officers: https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=450786 That thread (and video) is an excellent example of the “my gun is a magic talisman that protects me from evil” mentality. |
October 19, 2019, 04:55 PM | #17 | |
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October 19, 2019, 05:17 PM | #18 |
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I would have to agree that situational awareness is key in reducing the chances of a surprise attack. Not to be paranoid, but I tend to sit with my back towards walls or where I can see what is going on. If I had confronted someone about their behavior, I would not give them my back until I was sure that they left or were no longer a threat. I’ve had to fire employees and calm down rude (crazy) customers. There is always a bit of tenseness as you never know how they are going to react. I try to be the “water” rather than the “gas” in tense situations, but my guard is internally on high alert.
After situational awareness, space and movement are your friend when it comes to contact weapons. I still can’t believe that they only gave her 7 years for attempted murder. Avoid crazy situations if at all possible, but keep your guard up and be prepared to block or move if you see a weapon.
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October 19, 2019, 07:03 PM | #19 |
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Auquila, I don't have a link. I recently attended a use of force / LEO training and the instructor mentioned the revised / 35 foot distance as 21 feet was never set in stone to begin with, but as a SUGGESTED bare minimum distance back when Surviving Edged weapons first came out. I don't know if it's (35'), in writing anywhere as there are so many variables involved, or just a new generaly accepted minimum distance. Made sense to me as I don't want to get anywhere near a sharp blade being held by a hostile person.
A few moons ago (late 80's, early 90's), I attended some training with rubber knives/ guns at 21 feet, and the vast majority of the time, the guy with the knife could dash across the room, slash / stab / chop the guy with the gun before the rubber gun cleared the holster. Sobering training to say the least. Last edited by shurshot; October 19, 2019 at 07:31 PM. |
October 19, 2019, 07:36 PM | #20 |
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If someone is running towards you with a knife, axe, etc., and your adrenaline is pumping, in the midst of the fight or flight reflex... unless you are on a football field with clearly marked distances, how are you going to tell the difference between 18 feet and 24 feet? The distance is arbitrary.
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October 19, 2019, 08:18 PM | #21 |
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Not a knife, but another stabbing illustrating the speed issue.
https://www.cleveland19.com/2019/06/...wdriver-video/
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October 20, 2019, 02:06 PM | #22 |
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a knife, IMO, is the sucker punch of the lethal weapon world. Brandishing it is one thing. You're always going to run the risk of a sudden, brutal, disabling attack any time someone is within 6 feet or so. There will be very few people on this planet that could block a knife attack from only two steps away, even if the victim is already on alert. Seriously, it takes two steps and less than two seconds to throw a slashing cut or deep stab wound on someone. How could a person possibly block or fight back unless that was already in combat readiness?
Edged weapons are a whole different can of possum innards. completely concealable. instant and disabling strikes. Multiple strikes in the time it takes to draw a breath or scream. Depending on how badly the attacker wants to hurt his victim, a knife in itself may be even quicker than a handgun. The only way that a person can stay safe from a guy with a knife is just to know what the heck is going on. There will be cues that things are going south, almost any time, there will be hints that the attacker is not peaceful. Unfortunately, some people see this type every day, even several times a day. My wife and I were walking a trail last night after dark and an apparently homeless guy got off of a bench and started following us, but turned off. So she got out her mace and I had my hand on the butt of my pistol. At fifteen feet, he still could have inflicted a lot of damage with only a knife.
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October 20, 2019, 02:39 PM | #23 | |
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October 20, 2019, 03:21 PM | #24 |
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Some of the 911 highjackers had taped box knives to the bottoms of their shoes and managed to carry off a physical attack after hours of observation and several searches.
That should pretty well say it all. A bunch of (well trained) thugs took over some commercial passenger jets with nothing but the most basic weapons. Mace and box knives.
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October 20, 2019, 03:31 PM | #25 | |
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