Alternative powder recommendations?

TruthTellers · September 23, 2020, 03:20 PM

I was wise enough to order a few thousand primers before they all disappeared, that and a pound of powders I'd been wanting to try.

Unfortunately, Unique and Bullseye are Unobtanium right now, I didn't think to stock up on powders because a pound lasted me long enough, so now I'm looking at alternative powders that I've never used before and didn't plan to ever use.

I guess this is how a lot of people discover new to them powders that they liked more due to shortages. Guess my time for new discovery had to come eventually.

Anyway, what I see available that I have load data for in my manuals is stuff like 700x, True Blue, Titegroup and a lot of other Hodgdon powders, Winchester 231, and Lil' Gun.

What can you guys tell me about these powders? I look in the books and 700x seems pretty anemic, tho it is cheap under $20/lb. Lil Gun I've intended to buy to use in .32 revolvers, True Blue looks to be very versatile and looks quite energetic.

FTR, I reload .327, .38/.357, .40/10, and .45 for revolvers.

Whirlwind06 · September 23, 2020, 03:24 PM

Titegroup is close to bullseye on the burn rate charts.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nick_C_S · September 23, 2020, 06:23 PM

If W231 (or HP-38) is available, you're golden. It's just slightly slower than Bullseye. Great stuff.

Honorable mention goes to TiteGroup - especially if you're loading plated semi-auto ammo.

5whiskey · September 24, 2020, 07:00 AM

700x is a great powder for .38 and .45. Not really anemic in those low pressure calibers. Quite anemic for the rest of your calibers, and very much so for 10mm and .357.

HS-6 is a decent enough powder for mid level magnum loads in .357, suitable for decent velocities in 10mm, and should get you full house loads in everything else. Long shot is also a similar powder that gets good velocities in most calibers until you want full magnum loads. 800x is also in this group. This powders will not do very well in 38 or 45, as they usually need about 25k pressure for (mostly) complete powder burn. Even then they behave better with magnum primers unless you’re running 30k psi or better.

I learned reloading in 2009 during the first Obama craze. I didn’t start really reloading exclusively until the following panic (sandy hook maybe?). I’ve used some less than popular powders out of necessity, and found most of them can give you satisfactory results.

Nathan · September 24, 2020, 07:35 AM

The 700X for $20??? Uh those aren’t 1lb containers! I forget....maybe 14 oz??

My impression is Hodgdon, IMR, Winchester are becoming available first....so I would start there.

hounddawg · September 24, 2020, 07:50 AM

some of the guys at the range the other day were talking about the Shooter World stuff. Seems like they like it pretty well. Most of the VV powders are still available also. Most of the Norma line as well. I am going the VihtaVuori route myself for rifle, not that more expensive than the Hogdon powders and shoots just as well if not better

noylj · September 24, 2020, 08:24 AM

First, what powders do you have load data for? Those are the ones to look for.
I like powders from Bullseye or Red Dot to 231/HP38 for low pressure pistol rounds.
I like Power Pistol, Silhouette, and AA7 for higher pressure pistol rounds.
I like 2400 for magnum pistol rounds.
Find a powder burn rate chart and see how many powders are between Bullseye and 231/HP38. 231/HP38 is the most accurate powder I have found since 452AA went away for .45 Auto, with Bullseye being in second place. Green Dot is great choice. N320 is a great choice. So many choices.

5whiskey · September 24, 2020, 11:09 AM

Quote:

The 700X for $20??? Uh those aren’t 1lb containers! I forget....maybe 14 oz??

That is a 14 ounce container price. It would still only be 12.5% more for a 1 lb container, which would come out to $22.50. Add in the fact that charges are so small (about 5 gn max for a 230 gn pill in .45 acp), it’s still quite the economical powder. That’s really the main reason why I use it. It does pretty well in low pressure rounds, when you get to higher pressure rounds you just can’t get standard velocity with it.

TruthTellers · September 24, 2020, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noylj

First, what powders do you have load data for? Those are the ones to look for.
I like powders from Bullseye or Red Dot to 231/HP38 for low pressure pistol rounds.
I like Power Pistol, Silhouette, and AA7 for higher pressure pistol rounds.
I like 2400 for magnum pistol rounds.
Find a powder burn rate chart and see how many powders are between Bullseye and 231/HP38. 231/HP38 is the most accurate powder I have found since 452AA went away for .45 Auto, with Bullseye being in second place. Green Dot is great choice. N320 is a great choice. So many choices.

Good question. When I buy a powder I like to be able to use it in more than one caliber. I have load data for all the powders I listed.

zxcvbob · September 24, 2020, 02:29 PM

If you can find Promo powder, it can be used in anything for generally low-velocity target ammo. Use Red Dot load data. It especially works well in .38 and .45 revolver cartridges.

bedlamite · September 24, 2020, 02:41 PM

Lil Gun works as a 357 magnum powder, and produces excellent velocity, but burns at a hotter temp and may cause more forcing cone erosion than other powders.

TruthTellers · September 24, 2020, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bedlamite

Lil Gun works as a 357 magnum powder, and produces excellent velocity, but burns at a hotter temp and may cause more forcing cone erosion than other powders.

I'm looking to use that strictly in .32 and .327 Mag and, for my Redhawk only, .45 Colt.

I've been using AA#9 for .327 and it's considerably higher pressure than Lil' Gun, yet doesn't give much higher velocity. After about a dozen handloads of 12.5gr of #9 with a 100gr XTP, I noticed my SP101 had started some flame cutting on the top strap. I was thinking why that would be when people have shot hot .357 handloads in their SP's without issue and my summation is due to .327 having a max PSI of 45k, while .357 is a max of 35k PSI.

So, I'm figuring that Lil' Gun will reduce flame cutting of the top strap and if the forcing cone gets eroded that quickly, I'm sure Ruger will have no issues fixing that.

bedlamite · September 24, 2020, 05:41 PM

Quote:

So, I'm figuring that Lil' Gun will reduce flame cutting of the top strap and if the forcing cone gets eroded that quickly, I'm sure Ruger will have no issues fixing that.

You've got that backwards, Lil Gun will have more erosion and cutting than other powders like AA9 or 2400 at the same pressure, because of the hotter temp.

jetinteriorguy · September 26, 2020, 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TruthTellers

I'm looking to use that strictly in .32 and .327 Mag and, for my Redhawk only, .45 Colt.

I've been using AA#9 for .327 and it's considerably higher pressure than Lil' Gun, yet doesn't give much higher velocity. After about a dozen handloads of 12.5gr of #9 with a 100gr XTP, I noticed my SP101 had started some flame cutting on the top strap. I was thinking why that would be when people have shot hot .357 handloads in their SP's without issue and my summation is due to .327 having a max PSI of 45k, while .357 is a max of 35k PSI.

So, I'm figuring that Lil' Gun will reduce flame cutting of the top strap and if the forcing cone gets eroded that quickly, I'm sure Ruger will have no issues fixing that.

Not too sure if Ruger will cover anything when using handloads, would be curious if anyone had any experience with this. I know pretty much all gun manufacturers void any warranty if using handloads.

RC20 · September 27, 2020, 02:17 PM

Quote:

You've got that backwards, Lil Gun will have more erosion and cutting than other powders like AA9 or 2400 at the same pressure, because of the hotter temp.

Have to laugh, I have an old magazine that says powder X gives 8X to your barrel life!

TruthTellers · September 27, 2020, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bedlamite

You've got that backwards, Lil Gun will have more erosion and cutting than other powders like AA9 or 2400 at the same pressure, because of the hotter temp.

Care to explain how a certain powder can be lower in pressure yet have the same velocity as other powders that have data that shows them at a higher pressure, yet that lower pressure powder increases more wear on a gun?

T. O'Heir · September 28, 2020, 01:25 PM

If you change the powder, you need to work up the load again.
I'd be inclined to use whatever powder is easiest to come by and usable in as many cartridges as possible.
Bullet weight and cast or jacketed matter.
"...those aren’t 1lb containers..." Lotta that going on these days. Reducing the size/amount lets 'em increase prices without an obvious price increase. SOB's at Black Diamond Cheese did it with cheese slices too. 22 slices instead of 24 for the same money. Grrrrr.

rclark · September 28, 2020, 01:46 PM

As True Blue is yet to be mentioned ... I like True Blue in all the cartridges I use. It seems to come into it's own if you work at the higher end of its power range. Ie. Likes to work under pressure

. Currently it is my goto medium powder with .357. under a 158g SWC. I like to keep my .357 loads under 1100fps. Meters very well too. Thing is though I have a bunch of Green Dot and Unique which work well in my .44s and .45s. So burning through those powders now...

BJung · September 28, 2020, 05:11 PM

I've read good things about True Blue but will stay with what I have. If other powders are options to you, I'd suggest AA2. It meters very well. GI Surplus or Bartlett sells it in bulk. Find your pet load with that and you'll have many years of powder available to shoot with.

rclark · September 30, 2020, 01:37 PM

Quote:

but will stay with what I have

Yeah... Know exactly what you mean. I've tested a lot of powders and found a lot of good loads and powders I could use and like... But I have XX pounds of powder y and xx pounds of z.... Not going to throw it away just because there is a new wiz-bang powder super-z on the block!

September 23, 2020, 03:20 PM	#1
TruthTellers Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2016 Posts: 3,888	Alternative powder recommendations? I was wise enough to order a few thousand primers before they all disappeared, that and a pound of powders I'd been wanting to try. Unfortunately, Unique and Bullseye are Unobtanium right now, I didn't think to stock up on powders because a pound lasted me long enough, so now I'm looking at alternative powders that I've never used before and didn't plan to ever use. I guess this is how a lot of people discover new to them powders that they liked more due to shortages. Guess my time for new discovery had to come eventually. Anyway, what I see available that I have load data for in my manuals is stuff like 700x, True Blue, Titegroup and a lot of other Hodgdon powders, Winchester 231, and Lil' Gun. What can you guys tell me about these powders? I look in the books and 700x seems pretty anemic, tho it is cheap under $20/lb. Lil Gun I've intended to buy to use in .32 revolvers, True Blue looks to be very versatile and looks quite energetic. FTR, I reload .327, .38/.357, .40/10, and .45 for revolvers. __________________ "We always think there's gonna be more time... then it runs out."

September 23, 2020, 06:23 PM	#3
Nick_C_S Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2013 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,523	If W231 (or HP-38) is available, you're golden. It's just slightly slower than Bullseye. Great stuff. Honorable mention goes to TiteGroup - especially if you're loading plated semi-auto ammo. __________________ Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself. Life Member, National Rifle Association

September 24, 2020, 07:00 AM	#4
5whiskey Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 2005 Location: US Posts: 3,657	700x is a great powder for .38 and .45. Not really anemic in those low pressure calibers. Quite anemic for the rest of your calibers, and very much so for 10mm and .357. HS-6 is a decent enough powder for mid level magnum loads in .357, suitable for decent velocities in 10mm, and should get you full house loads in everything else. Long shot is also a similar powder that gets good velocities in most calibers until you want full magnum loads. 800x is also in this group. This powders will not do very well in 38 or 45, as they usually need about 25k pressure for (mostly) complete powder burn. Even then they behave better with magnum primers unless you’re running 30k psi or better. I learned reloading in 2009 during the first Obama craze. I didn’t start really reloading exclusively until the following panic (sandy hook maybe?). I’ve used some less than popular powders out of necessity, and found most of them can give you satisfactory results. __________________ Support the NRA-ILA Auction, ends 03/09/2018 https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=593946

September 24, 2020, 07:50 AM	#6
hounddawg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Posts: 4,232	some of the guys at the range the other day were talking about the Shooter World stuff. Seems like they like it pretty well. Most of the VV powders are still available also. Most of the Norma line as well. I am going the VihtaVuori route myself for rifle, not that more expensive than the Hogdon powders and shoots just as well if not better __________________ “How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek

September 24, 2020, 02:29 PM	#10
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	If you can find Promo powder, it can be used in anything for generally low-velocity target ammo. Use Red Dot load data. It especially works well in .38 and .45 revolver cartridges. __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

September 23, 2020, 03:24 PM	#2
Whirlwind06 Senior Member Join Date: March 3, 2006 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 998	Titegroup is close to bullseye on the burn rate charts. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

September 24, 2020, 07:35 AM	#5
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,333	The 700X for $20??? Uh those aren’t 1lb containers! I forget....maybe 14 oz?? My impression is Hodgdon, IMR, Winchester are becoming available first....so I would start there.

September 24, 2020, 08:24 AM	#7
noylj Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2007 Location: Between CA and NM Posts: 858	First, what powders do you have load data for? Those are the ones to look for. I like powders from Bullseye or Red Dot to 231/HP38 for low pressure pistol rounds. I like Power Pistol, Silhouette, and AA7 for higher pressure pistol rounds. I like 2400 for magnum pistol rounds. Find a powder burn rate chart and see how many powders are between Bullseye and 231/HP38. 231/HP38 is the most accurate powder I have found since 452AA went away for .45 Auto, with Bullseye being in second place. Green Dot is great choice. N320 is a great choice. So many choices.

September 24, 2020, 02:41 PM	#11
bedlamite Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2000 Location: WI Posts: 1,395	Lil Gun works as a 357 magnum powder, and produces excellent velocity, but burns at a hotter temp and may cause more forcing cone erosion than other powders. __________________ A plan is just a list of things that doesn't happen.

September 28, 2020, 01:25 PM	#17
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	If you change the powder, you need to work up the load again. I'd be inclined to use whatever powder is easiest to come by and usable in as many cartridges as possible. Bullet weight and cast or jacketed matter. "...those aren’t 1lb containers..." Lotta that going on these days. Reducing the size/amount lets 'em increase prices without an obvious price increase. SOB's at Black Diamond Cheese did it with cheese slices too. 22 slices instead of 24 for the same money. Grrrrr. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

September 28, 2020, 01:46 PM	#18
rclark Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2009 Location: Butte, MT Posts: 2,622	As True Blue is yet to be mentioned ... I like True Blue in all the cartridges I use. It seems to come into it's own if you work at the higher end of its power range. Ie. Likes to work under pressure . Currently it is my goto medium powder with .357. under a 158g SWC. I like to keep my .357 loads under 1100fps. Meters very well too. Thing is though I have a bunch of Green Dot and Unique which work well in my .44s and .45s. So burning through those powders now... __________________ A clinger and deplorable, MAGA, and life NRA member. When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Single Action .45 Colt (Sometimes colloquially referred to by its alias as the .45 'Long' Colt or .45LC). Don't leave home without it. That said, the .44Spec is right up their too... but the .45 Colt is still the king.

September 28, 2020, 05:11 PM	#19
BJung Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2019 Posts: 773	I've read good things about True Blue but will stay with what I have. If other powders are options to you, I'd suggest AA2. It meters very well. GI Surplus or Bartlett sells it in bulk. Find your pet load with that and you'll have many years of powder available to shoot with.