Open Carry Vs. Concealed carry

[MyXD40]

Good post Mordis.

And you're right. OC doesn't draw attention to me that much. People see it, but don't tend to care for it. LEOs see it when I'm out and about, and they don't care. Guess it depends where you live, and how gun friendly eveyrone is..

But as Mordis said, we're all on the same side..

[mordis]

yep, i would raise a unholy hell of a protest if they started taking away cc rights in states that allow it. I would expect the cc only crowd to do the same for the oc crowd in states that allow it. We all need to remember that we are all friends, and brothers in the gun rights battle, we need every right we can get, including oc, cuase if thats all thats left. you might as well use that right.

[Tanzer]

All you anti OC people out there, please post links and cites of CITIZENS not leos but citzens, being target number one or shot first becuase they open carried.

No, I don't have a link, but I have enough common sense to put myself in someone else's shoes. Here I am, Mr. Bad Guy. I'm going to hold up the convenience store. I've got my hoodie on and my weapon drawn as I walk in. There's a fat guy at the slurpy machine, a drunk playing Keno with his welfare check, and a guy in relatively able shape with a gun on his hip.
Bad guy radar to bad guy brain; Shoot the guy with the gun or he'll make your day go all nasty.
Can you cite a source that will confirm that the next time I eat at a Mexican resaurant I won't get heartburn?
Can you cite a source that will confirm that next time I go to the DMV they won't be rude?
Can you cite a source that confirms that you're NOT scaring the crap out of the pregnant lady with her toddler at the supermarket?

[Tanzer]

Did I mention I'm quitting smoking????

[revance]

I don't like the idea of OC, but I would defend others right to do it. I bet 99% (percentage pulled out of my rear) of non-gun people who see someone OCing just assume they are a LEO and gun people who know better don't care.

It does raise awareness to the fact that you are allowed to carry a weapon. Again, most non-gun people in my area don't even know its legal to carry a gun in public and we allow both OC and CC.

Awareness may or may not be a good thing. Since the default position on guns tends to be anti, it may be best to not bring attention to ourselves. There are a lot of people out there who don't really know or care about gun right issues, but if you asked them, they would say guns were bad because thats what they are told everyday.

[stevekolt]

You forgot to mention the 3rd option in your poll....

1. Open carry

2. Concealed Carry

3. I live in a people's republic (aka NJ) that will not allow carry in any manner. And yes, we're planning on escaping in the next year or so.


Just trying to help

[Wildalaska]

Did I mention I'm quitting smoking????

Suck it up dude, its worth it. Ya want to vent, send me annoying PMs...

WilddontmissthosechocolateloogiesAlaska TM

[hoytinak]

Open carry in public is rude and shows a lack of class. Sorry, but that's how I see it.

+1 more......I've been stationed in NC for the last 11 years where open carry is legal and the only time I've ever open carried was when I was riding the trails in Uwharrie. Now back home in Texas...concealed all the way, even if we could open carry I wouldn't. I'm another one that thinks open carry just brings unwanted attention I don't need.

[ghalleen]

In the end the only thing that matters is that agree or dissagree with oc, you should support the right of the individual to choose which method carry is best for them selvs, we are all on the same side.

In my state, there are several restrictions on where open carry is permitted. This is subject to some court to interpret it, but our law says that concealed carry permit holders may carry anywhere with a few restrictions (courthouses, federal property and buildings, and indian reservations).

Open Carry is prohibited in "public buildings", which include schools, hospitals, city and state buildings, public parks, and areas in our biggest city where the mayor has designated as a public area.

What the courts have not ruled on is whether simply possessing a concealed permit is sufficient to open carry without the restrictions.

[Tanzer]

Wild,
You don't deserve annoying PM's but thanks for the offer.
Tanjonesinforastogywheneveritypezer

[JohnKSa]

God i cant beileve im the only person to say this yet in this thread but here goes.

I can't either since this is the battle cry of the OC supporters.

We have all heard of instances where gun stores were held up in spite of the clerks open carrying. So we know that criminals are willing to go up against openly armed citizens when the payoff is guns and money.

I'm guessing that's not really what you wanted to hear.

So here's a specific instance.

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/police/...wtonPatton.htm

A man open carrying a handgun had is stolen from him
Man robbed in the Centreville area

About 4:10 a.m. Sunday, July 30, officers were called to the area of Newton Patent Drive and Newton Tavern Drive. A 21-year-old Centreville-area man was robbed while walking on Newton Patent Drive. Two suspects approached the victim from behind, and placed a metal object up to the victim’s head. The suspects took the victim’s hand gun which he was openly carrying. The suspect’s then fled the area. The victim was not injured.

The suspects were described as black males wearing dark clothing.

Anyone with information about this incident or these suspects is asked to call Crime Solvers at 1-866-411-TIPS (8477) or the police non-emergency number at 703-691-2131.

For what it's worth, I think open carry should be legal. It's just not an option I would choose to exercise.

[mordis]

thankyou john, Its to bad it has to be summarized as a battle cry., You are the first person i have seen that has actually came up with some form of cite for civilians. If you dont mind i wanna copy and post it at the opencarry.org forums and see what they say. ya it happens, but i still feel that oc is a good thing. I feel it helps to serve as a deterence. The article does not state weather or not he saw them coming. Iam willing to bet he was condition white and was not paying attention to anything around him. FWIW cc'ers also get robbed as well, there have been posts here and on other sites regarding it and such as it can not be dissmissed. If your ocing, you should maintain more attention to your surrounding then when your ccing.

WHat i dont understand is , why when cc'ers address oc'ers they talk down to us saying stuff like
"I'm guessing that's not really what you wanted to hear.", and talking down at us. Were not stupid becuase we chose a more comfortable approach to carrying. Each Form of carry has its disadvantages, and advantages.

OC Pros
1. Faster draw
2. Potential to deteer crime.
3. easier to dress for.
4. more comfortable to carry full size and large framed guns.

cons.
1 Pontential to be first target.
2. Potential to be robbed anyways, despite carrying.(true for cc'ers as well)"
3. Tends to scare the sheeple, they think the sheep dog is infact a wolf.

CC. Pros
1. Weapons are hidden from sight.
2. Does not scare the sheeple as much.
3. Element of surprise is on your side.

cons.
1. SLower to draw from,
2. usualy limited to smaller framed guns.(depending on gun and build of carrier, your mileage may vary)
3. some concealment guns are in inadaquate calibers with less capacity.
4.some methods of concealed carry are uncomfortable.( i.e IWB, some belly bands, ect.ect.)

That list seems reasonable, either method of carry is a comprimise. Its up to you to decide which comprimise you want. I like the faster draw and more comfort.

I see alot of people putting there gun at the 4:00 position, and i just cant do it. I did it for a month and it felt like the gun was diggin in to my side, and when i sat down the gun barrel hits the back to the car seat and makes driving for any length of time uncomfortable. Which is why when i do cc, i carry at the 3:00 position, which i have read on here is a no no, due to it being something cops do.

[alligator94]

I oc and cc. One of the reasons I OC is that I do not like compact handguns. While you can CC full size guns (1911's, 92's, etc.) most of the time it is either obvious or you have to wear a huge cover shirt. Thankfully I have never had to pull a gun, but if I did it would be a lot easier to do so OC'ing rather than concealed carry. Admittedly I do not OC as much as I used to, but it has sparked conversation with people over RKBA. I have never had a negative OC experience.

[Tanzer]

This rule varies, I know, but in many cases concealed does not necessarily mean totally unnoticeable. There's something under my shirt, but it's a lump, not a printing 1911. I believe this most often qualifies as concealment.

[JohnKSa]

Its to bad it has to be summarized as a battle cry.

No, it's too bad that someone has to go poking around on the web to find "hard evidence" to prove something that is already common knowledge. There's already more than enough readily available evidence that robbers will go up against armed citizens to steal guns and money--gun shop robberies are the easiest cite.

If you dont mind i wanna copy and post it at the opencarry.org forums and see what they say.

I found it on packing.org doing an internet search. The link on packing.org was defunct but luckily I was able to poke around and find another link to the story. Now packing.org is defunct, but, again, fortunately I had posted it here. The link I posted here expired, but again I got lucky and was able to find the police department and search their site for reports. Fortunately they kept records online for extended time or this would simply be a quote of a story with no supporting link. The point of all that is that this story would have faded off the web but for my efforts and then the ridiculous argument: "But no one can find a story of this actually happening." would still be being used.

This whole topic really irritates me, if you can't already tell. One stupid incident in an area with a police dept. that happens to have kept records online for more than a few months is now going to be evidence that what everyone knew all along is true. That is really messed up.

My comments in blue.

OC Pros
1. Faster draw And you HAVE to be fast because you'll have to draw in a hurry when something goes down.
2. Potential to deteer crime. Just like armed gun store clerks keep gun store robberies from happening??? Ok, sure, some will say no, others will see the gun itself as a target.
3. easier to dress for.
4. more comfortable to carry full size and large framed guns.

cons.
1 Pontential to be first target.
2. Potential to be robbed anyways, despite (or BECAUSE of) carrying.(true for cc'ers as well--except for the part about being targeted ) "
3. Tends to scare the sheeple, they think the sheep dog is infact a wolf. Also tends to alarm even non-sheeple since it's unusual for non-LEOs to go about openly armed. Furthermore, "scaring the sheeple" is not conducive to the cause of advancing gun rights--sheeple vote too.

CC. Pros
1. Weapons are hidden from sight.
2. Does not scare the sheeple as much. Can't imagine how it scares anyone at all unless concealment fails.
3. Element of surprise is on your side. As is the choice of WHEN and IF to respond.
4. Virtually elimates the possibility of being hassled by the cops, having the cops called on you, being verbally denied entrance or ejected from establishments.
5. Does not make the wearer the target of criminals who would like to steal firearms without having to breach the security of a house or gun store.
6. Allows the wearer to carry in situations where it is legal but would be virtually impossible to carry openly. (I've carried into the non-secure portion of airports on several occasions, for example.)

cons.

1. SLower to draw from,
2. usualy limited to smaller framed guns.(depending on gun and build of carrier, your mileage may vary)
3. some concealment guns are in inadaquate calibers with less capacity. Some are in adequate calibers with adequate capacity.
4.some methods of concealed carry are uncomfortable.( i.e IWB, some belly bands, ect.ect.) To be fair, some methods are as comfortable as open carry.

[WhiteFeather93]

You know I opened up this same can of worms earlier this year. And I learned a few things...

1. for every one person who is passionate about OC'ing there are five people passionatly against OC.

2. There are as many sects of firearm owners as there are religions. Example, hunters who just want hunting firearms, compition owners who think they are only for compitition, and your passionate 2A everyone should own a gun owners, just to name a few...

3. OC'ing and CC'ing are almost like political parties. Where as some CC'ers are a member of the NRA and support canidates who support their gun rights. OC'ers distrust the NRA as a business who makes to many compromises. And generally flock to more grass roots organizations and look for canidates who preach way more than just the pro 2A speal.

4. You cannot sway someone who wishes not to be swayed. You can talk yourself blue in the face on either form of carry and no one will change their opinion.

There are people who will ask a significant other 5 or 8 times a day if they are "printing" because they are that into concealing to the best of their ability. And as long as they are happy than why try and change their minds?

There are people who OC to make a political statement. Owning and carrying a gun is legal and should be considered acceptable period. On that same note before I get ostracized there are other reasons that people OC and CC. It may have to do with firearm selection and or local law.

Are these the only reason people carry? No people carry for a wide array of reasons. The cons and pros for either form are only in the eyes of the beholder.

Open carry in public is rude and shows a lack of class. Sorry, but that's how I see it.

This man has every right to his opinion. If that is how he views it than so be it. Some may say that to conceal a firearm is sneaky and people who do that are not to be trusted. Neither of these statements are facts they are opinions and people have a right to them.

I state this only because my own thread on this topic turned very sour and it was a no win for anyone. So by all means discuss the subject but do not allow your feelings to be hurt or emotions to overule your sound judgement. As someone had stated we are both on the same team. We just play a different position.

[JohnKSa]

1. for every one person who is passionate about OC'ing there are five people passionatly against OC.

I'm not against it, I think it should be legal everywhere.

I just think that it's usually not a wise thing to do. In some circumstances, yes. In most of the circumstances I find myself in, no.

There are people who OC to make a political statement.

And denigrate those who are unwilling to do the same--this is probably my biggest gripe about the OC "pushers".

[WhiteFeather93]

Quote:
There are people who OC to make a political statement.

And denigrate those who are unwilling to do the same--this is probably my biggest gripe about the OC "pushers".

Johnska I understand where you are coming from and that is exactly why I said that people need to be mindful of their emotions. Read through this thread and look at how many people hurl negitive comments at the OP for his views. It goes both ways and that is why (forgive me for going off topic) I wanted to friendly remind everyone to curb tempers. Civil discussion on any matter is a great and noble thing. But letting something as silly as a temper ruin that causes distaste in everyones mouth.

[JohnKSa]

I wanted to friendly remind everyone to curb tempers.

That's worth repeating. You are, of course, correct.

[WhiteFeather93]

My personal feelings on the matter are irrelivent. Most everyone on this board carries a weapon in some fashion or another. And threads like this often just cause discontempt (I learned the hard way). If someone is interested in OC'ing or CC'ing than post a thread asking people who do so for their opinion on the matter. However threads that try to put the two up against eachother only cause problems. Now I didn't start my thread with the sole intention of causing a fight and I am certainly not asserting that the OP has done so. But I hope those who want to start a thread on this topic look back and see the outcomes.

[Thunderhawk88]

Did I mention I'm quitting smoking????

Keep at it, one day at a time. It gets better.

[MyXD40]

However threads that try to put the two up against eachother only cause problems.

This thread has a poll, to just get a general idea of who carries concealed vs open carry.

The reason for problems is people who make comments something like "I find it rude and lack of class"..those type of comments are the ones that turn a healthy topic into an argument..

[RevolverLover]

The reason for problems is people who make comments something like "I find it rude and lack of class"..those type of comments are the ones that turn a healthy topic into an argument..

Why? They are entitled to their opinion just like you are.

[chris in va]

I've had too many negative experiences OC in Virginia. CC it is.

[bigghoss]

I live is a smaller rural town so most people around here are somewhat familiar with guns. OC in NE Oregon doesn't seam to draw much attention.

the only reason I open carry is because for whatever reason the county sherrif has decided that applying for a permit will only be done by appointment at the head office wich is a half hour drive from here that I just haven't gotten around to doing yet.