250 Savage AI

[jackstrawIII]

Hey guys,

Recently got my hands on a Rem Model 700 in 250 Savage. I'd like to "Ackley Improve" it.

Here's the question. Is this something I can do myself? If not, how do I go about making this happen? I called my local gunsmith and he quoted me $350 to do it... which is crazy because I could get the gun rebored for less than that.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

[HiBC]

I know nothing about your capabilities,but my hunch is,if you have to ask if you can handle it,you probably should not.
An "Ackley Improved" conversion means different things to different people.
To do it right is not as simple as just running the chamber reamer in.
I prefer using a new barrel. Without keyboarding enough to explain why.doing it right involves setting the barrel back.That involves carefully picking up the leade of the original thread and cutting another thread. Its a bit tricky and takes setup tme. Time is money.And you are working with a used production Remington barrel.
If you just bought it...you might try giving the as is 250 Savage a chance.
Here is another option. Ackley did two things to his AI. He reduced case taper.
And he fireformed a sharp 40 deg shoulder.
The sharp shoulder looks cool and impresses your friends,but its what complicates the job a bit.

The 250 Savage is tapered more than necessary. There is advantage to straigtening it out as Ackley did.

Check into being able to get reamer and dies for an AI version that retains the original shoulder angle.

I can't tell your smith how to run his trade,I'm not a pro gunsmith,I'm an ameteur with some skill and experience. I suggest you discuss whether he can do an AI job with the original shoulder angle. I think that might be a simpler process,if the dies and reamer are standards.
IMO,you can go just deep enough with the reamer to take less than .001 worth of headspace off the original chamber. The chamber walls will be cleaned. You have the full original shoulder/headspace for fireforming.
You gain some case capacity,and some brass life.

FWIW, you might shop 250 Savage brass.Availability might be seasonal.

It costs you only a set of dies to load it and shoot it as is. I'd try a 100 gr Ballistic tip and maybe IMR 4350 or RE-19...Now,thats a seat of the pants suggestion.My load manual is not handy right now.

[jackstrawIII]

HiBC, thanks for the reply. If it's a huge ordeal to "improve" it, I might just keep it as is. Those extra 150-200 fps are very appealing though.

[Don Fischer]

I read that the 250 was Ackley's favorite, improved more than any of the other's. never shot an Ackley though. I doubt a 250 Ackley will run down a 25-06 if velocity is what you want. In my 25-06 with 117ga Hornady interlocks I get 3079 fps measured.

[HiBC]

And a 308 will never run down a 300 Ultra Mag.
That takes nothing away from the 308.

I'm not a 250 Savage historian,but to the best of my knowledge.the 250 Savage was introduced in the Savage 99 as the 250-3000
Because it was alleged to achieve 3000 fps with an 87 g bullet. I'm not going to look it up,but for context,I believe that was after WW1 but before WW2.
For some folks,2900 fps is dull,boring,rainbow trajectory,a slow killer,and hardly worth considering by a real rifleman....but bump that up to 3001 fps,things get exciting! Range extends at least another 200 yds,and kills are DRT.

Anyway,the early Savage barrels were cursed with slow twist barrels.A 100 gr bullet was about the heaviest that would stabilize,unless maybe it was a short,fat,roundnose bullet.

If that Remington has a 1 in 10 twist,you can use 115 / 117 / 120 gr bullets.

A lot of very good hunting cartridges operate in the 2600 to 2900 fps range

I've never owned a 250 Savage,but it intrigues me.

It will be very pleasant to shoot,and easy to shoot well.

[old roper]

I shoot some AI rifles. Most common is setting barrel back and my first AI was done that way. What happen is you blown the case body forward and you gain some case capacity.

The guy that help me get started reloading shot 250AI and showed me how to form cases and it was bolt action.

This give you idea what 250AI case looks like

https://www.magzter.com/article/Mens...ckley-Improved

[std7mag]

On a Rem 700 action, no, you probably cannot do it yourself.

While the shoulder os moved forward more, the rub lies in that with the AI design intent. Ackley intended for a person to be able to shoot stock 250 factory ammo out of it.
The problem was headspacing. Or rather where the 2 cartridges headspace in the same chamber.
To solve this, about 0.040" ( or about 1 thread) is taken off the barrel, then reamed.
Your standard 250 Savage go gage, is now your no-go gage.
When you chamber a factory round, it will interference contact at the shoulder/neck junction. And in doing so means you don't have to seat a bullet long, ala reloading.

If you had a Savage, you could loosen the barrel nut, and screw the action on to set the headspace. Tighten the nut and your done. Can't do that with a factory Rem barrel.

Shoot the standard 250. I do, and enjoy it alot!

[Jim Watson]

Check into being able to get reamer and dies for an AI version that retains the original shoulder angle.

Strictly speaking, if it does not have a 40 deg. shoulder, it isn't an Ackley.
There is such a thing as a .250 Improved with 28 deg shoulder, I think in the RCBS family of wildcats.

The original definition of "Improved" was that the rifle would still fire the standard ammo, either for fire forming or in case you run out of your own ammo and find some factory loads at the country store.

Frex a .30-06 AI will safely fire factory loads, but a .30 Gibbs won't.

Minutae of nomenclature aside, it is a good deal of work to properly convert to AI and I have wrassled all the wildcats I intend to.

I am sure there are improperly converted AIs out there, the chamber just reamed on the gun and headspace be hanged, but that is not the way to go.


The .250 is a 44000 CUP round for the Savage 99 lever action.
A moderate overload a'la .257 Roberts +P in your bolt action will get you most of what you buy an AI for. Sierra shows a 100 gr bullet at 3000 fps and an 87 at 3200.

[TX Nimrod]

The .250 was introduced prior to the US entry into WWI and was designed for the M99 lever action. The latter is important for cartridge shape - the limited extraction power compared to a bolt action required a case with considerable taper. At least, that was the design doctrine of the time. Too, the “weak” Savage action limited chamber pressure. The result is a “low pressure” cartridge with “too much” body taper by modern thinking.

Ackley realized this and the resulting AI cartridge has the biggest velocity gain of any AI cartridge. No magic there, it has the greatest case capacity increase of the lot. In bolt guns the high performance was driven both by increased case capacity and by increased chamber pressure.

Because the original bullet choice was driven by marketing, the twist rate of 1:14” was considered “inadequate” for long 100-grain bullets. Maybe back in 1915 it was, but I’m not so certain today. My 15” XP-100 chambered in regular .250 has a 1:13” twist and stabilizes modern (read much better quality) heavy bullets right around one moa. Yes, the pistol would agg 80-87 grain bullets in the 0.3s but the 100-grain Nosler BTips were hardly inaccurate. Still, if the OP’s rifle has a 10” twist - which I believe it does - he is golden even with 120s.


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[HiBC]

Strictly speaking, if it does not have a 40 deg. shoulder, it isn't an Ackley.
There is such a thing as a .250 Improved with 28 deg shoulder, I think in the RCBS family of wildcats.

Thank you for setting me straight on that,Jim. To be able to search for reamers /dies using the correct terminology (250 Sav Imp RCBS 28 deg) will more likely yield correct results.

Thereis nothing wrong with enjoying the 250 in original form,loaded to modern Rem 700 standards. Fine deer /antelope rifle! Try it!!

If you still have a hankering to have an "Improved" that RCBS version would be much easier to do. By easier,I mean cheaper. Still,its up to your smith to price his work.

I will make an uneducated wild guess that the RCBS version will get you 75% or 80% of the improvement of a true AI.

A Quickload sort of person could give you a better prediction.

The 6.5 Creedmoor brass option is interesting. Availability may be much better,and its likely made to standards appropriate to long range match shooting,where (maybe) 250 Savage is made to hunting rifle standards.

Or,maybe that idea is all in my head.

[TX Nimrod]

Factory .250 cases are 0.002” to 0.003” smaller at the base than many .308 cases. My XP has a minimum chamber and .250 brass shows an expansion ring above the head. Reformed Lapua .308 brass does not, and it’s not just because the latter is thicker. Not sure about CM brass.



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[old roper]

Ackley book has 250/3000 Improved (Ackley). The Improved is for Model 99 using existing shoulders. Other is 40 degree shoulder.

Dave Tubbs took 22-250 and neck it up for his 6HC and new Sierra Manual has data for 250 Savage Ackley Improved and one time I shot 6x250AI.

Rem made 6 International off 250/3000 case

https://www.magzter.com/article/Mens...-International.