93 mauser problem update

jmtbiggin · December 17, 2009, 07:57 PM

Some of you replied to my problem feeding rounds in my .243 cal M93. Took it back today to GUnsmith where it was purchased. He removed the firing pin and spring. HE then proceeded to rapidly cyle the rounds in and out perfectly. Iwas thinking great, this gun acts like a truck that runs like crap for me or you and then behaves for the mechanic. I told him to try again, and thankfully it happened, and there was a distinct patten to the problem. If load the magazine, the first round sits to the left, 2nd to the right,typical stagger.Rounds 1and 3 jammed 4 out of 5 trys for him. Round 2 went in smoothly, and I am guessing if I had 4 rounds that #4 would slide right in to. So he is gonna fix the part he pionted out that would allow the odd # rounds to sit just a little higher. Told me to pick it up tommorow. I inquired about the saftey of the M93 with 243, he said he felt is was safe to use.

James K · December 19, 2009, 12:10 AM

"Safe" in that it is not going to blow up? Yes, but the .243 working pressure is close to 60,000 psi, while the 7x57 pressure is 45,000, plus Spanish rifles tend to be soft. IMHO, you are OK for a limited amount of firing but keep a check on headspace.

Jim

jmtbiggin · December 23, 2009, 07:59 PM

Got the rifle back today and it is as smooth as a babys bottom. Based on what I have read here, a set of go nogo gauges would be a smart purchase? How often or how many rounds b/t checking the headspace? The gun is to sweet a shooter.... Guess I kinda got a fear factor going on now. Like getting hot gas in my face or worse the bolt thru my noggin. Or do they fail in a less dramatic way?

Jim Watson · December 23, 2009, 08:51 PM

Do you handload?

Hoddon starting loads are around 45,000 CUP. With the right powder that can get you a claimed 2800 fps with a 100 gr Speer and pressures your gun was made for.

rbernie · December 23, 2009, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Or do they fail in a less dramatic way?

Actually - no. The small ring Mausers lack the third 'safety' lug of the later large ring design. When the bolt shears the locking lugs or otherwise comes unglued - there's nothing to stop it.

Light handloads are the appropriate course of action.

F. Guffey · December 25, 2009, 09:32 AM

You took the rifle back to a smith? He did not tell you there was a fix for the escaping gas? He told you it was safe?

Let someone say there has never been a failure of the 93 Mauser, after that I would have to say Mauser went to a lot of trouble designing the 98 with holes drilled in the bottom of the bolt for gas escape and he wasted a lot of time machining the rear of the receiver to facilitate the third (Safety) lug, meaning the third lug must not engage when the bolt closes.

I said it was too late, the rifle is built and chambered in 243, I suggested getting a Brown ell's and or MidwayUSA catalog and check for barrels available for the 93 and 95 etc. and in what caliber. 6.5X55 and 7mm57 would have been my first choice.

I have never read a report about something blowing up on a forum that did not start out as a guessing game or something like: nothing before, then, all of a sudden and at once it was rendered scrap, Among receivers failures I know of the smith rearranged his reloading bench and cabinets, he reached for a powder he did not have? and as a consequence sent the barrel down range, he was left with a receiver that looked like a short horn with a stock, and it looks like he is going to spend the rest of his life praising Paul Mauser.

Gas escape as in a punctured primer and the hot high pressure, metal cutting gas escape of a case head separation is not the same, your question with regards to failure, bolt lugs sheer, catastrophic case head failure, that is two, the third happens when a primer is punctured, regardless of caliber, 7x57, 6.5x55 etc the design does not handle the escaping gas unless the bolt is drilled to allow gas escape, this prevents (most of) the gas from traveling through the bolt and into the face of the shooter. You took the rifle to the smith and he said it was safe, I say if you are going to shoot the rifle wear safety shooting glasses, I will not say it will, I say it can,,,,,happen.

F. Guffey

jmtbiggin · December 25, 2009, 10:39 PM

I need to post pics of the rifle. It actually has, or according to my amatuer research, a gas vent on the left side of the gun. I have read and read and read and read and read some more on this. Cannot find actual example of a failed 93 in the 308 family. Did read an article somewhere that the m93 was tested and finally had catastrophic failure at 98000psi. I have 40 round of factory winchester 100g left,after that who knows. The smith did say the rifle was safe to shoot. I already inquired about reloading light loads in the other forum. Reloading seems like it could be as enjoyable as shooting

jeepershooter · December 27, 2009, 07:47 PM

jmtbiggin,
I'm new on the board but I've been fooling around with rifles since the 60's. The guys know what they're talking about. I would quit going to that gunsmith and hang that rifle up.

James K · December 27, 2009, 08:29 PM

Late model 1893 rifles had a gas escape port drilled in the left side of the receiver ring, and some early ones were retrofitted. It is large enough to deal with primer leak, but not large enough to deal with a complete case head failure.

I have never seen a 93 Mauser "blow up" from using cartridges of the .308 class. But they are soft and not made for that pressure level; eventually the bolt lugs and the lug seats in the receiver will batter and create an excess headspace condition. You don't need GO/NO-GO gauges, only a field reject gauge. Depending on your loads, a check every 100 rounds would probably be a good idea. Also check your fired cases for any sign of stretching, like a bright ring around the case about 1/4" up from the base. If you see anything like that, stop firing the rifle immediately, like NOW. It is dangerous.

I think a bolt shearing its lugs is extremely unlikely; I have never heard of such a thing except in an American rifle, the M1903 Springfield when single heat treated bolts failed.

Here is something to think about. Imagine that the rifle is standing on its butt with the barrel pointing straight up. Now imagine a steel rod running down inside the barrel and on top of the rod is a platform. Every so often, a crane picks up a Ford 150 Super Cab pickup and drops it on the platform. That is about the pressure those bolt lugs have to stand up to every time the rifle is fired.

So, don't minimize the effects of rifle pressures.

Jim

December 17, 2009, 07:57 PM	#1
jmtbiggin Member Join Date: December 12, 2009 Location: effingham,sc Posts: 70	93 mauser problem update Some of you replied to my problem feeding rounds in my .243 cal M93. Took it back today to GUnsmith where it was purchased. He removed the firing pin and spring. HE then proceeded to rapidly cyle the rounds in and out perfectly. Iwas thinking great, this gun acts like a truck that runs like crap for me or you and then behaves for the mechanic. I told him to try again, and thankfully it happened, and there was a distinct patten to the problem. If load the magazine, the first round sits to the left, 2nd to the right,typical stagger.Rounds 1and 3 jammed 4 out of 5 trys for him. Round 2 went in smoothly, and I am guessing if I had 4 rounds that #4 would slide right in to. So he is gonna fix the part he pionted out that would allow the odd # rounds to sit just a little higher. Told me to pick it up tommorow. I inquired about the saftey of the M93 with 243, he said he felt is was safe to use.

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December 19, 2009, 12:10 AM	#2
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	"Safe" in that it is not going to blow up? Yes, but the .243 working pressure is close to 60,000 psi, while the 7x57 pressure is 45,000, plus Spanish rifles tend to be soft. IMHO, you are OK for a limited amount of firing but keep a check on headspace. Jim

December 23, 2009, 07:59 PM	#3
jmtbiggin Member Join Date: December 12, 2009 Location: effingham,sc Posts: 70	Got the rifle back today and it is as smooth as a babys bottom. Based on what I have read here, a set of go nogo gauges would be a smart purchase? How often or how many rounds b/t checking the headspace? The gun is to sweet a shooter.... Guess I kinda got a fear factor going on now. Like getting hot gas in my face or worse the bolt thru my noggin. Or do they fail in a less dramatic way?

December 23, 2009, 08:51 PM	#4
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,534	Do you handload? Hoddon starting loads are around 45,000 CUP. With the right powder that can get you a claimed 2800 fps with a 100 gr Speer and pressures your gun was made for.

December 25, 2009, 09:32 AM	#6
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	You took the rifle back to a smith? He did not tell you there was a fix for the escaping gas? He told you it was safe? Let someone say there has never been a failure of the 93 Mauser, after that I would have to say Mauser went to a lot of trouble designing the 98 with holes drilled in the bottom of the bolt for gas escape and he wasted a lot of time machining the rear of the receiver to facilitate the third (Safety) lug, meaning the third lug must not engage when the bolt closes. I said it was too late, the rifle is built and chambered in 243, I suggested getting a Brown ell's and or MidwayUSA catalog and check for barrels available for the 93 and 95 etc. and in what caliber. 6.5X55 and 7mm57 would have been my first choice. I have never read a report about something blowing up on a forum that did not start out as a guessing game or something like: nothing before, then, all of a sudden and at once it was rendered scrap, Among receivers failures I know of the smith rearranged his reloading bench and cabinets, he reached for a powder he did not have? and as a consequence sent the barrel down range, he was left with a receiver that looked like a short horn with a stock, and it looks like he is going to spend the rest of his life praising Paul Mauser. Gas escape as in a punctured primer and the hot high pressure, metal cutting gas escape of a case head separation is not the same, your question with regards to failure, bolt lugs sheer, catastrophic case head failure, that is two, the third happens when a primer is punctured, regardless of caliber, 7x57, 6.5x55 etc the design does not handle the escaping gas unless the bolt is drilled to allow gas escape, this prevents (most of) the gas from traveling through the bolt and into the face of the shooter. You took the rifle to the smith and he said it was safe, I say if you are going to shoot the rifle wear safety shooting glasses, I will not say it will, I say it can,,,,,happen. F. Guffey

December 25, 2009, 10:39 PM	#7
jmtbiggin Member Join Date: December 12, 2009 Location: effingham,sc Posts: 70	I need to post pics of the rifle. It actually has, or according to my amatuer research, a gas vent on the left side of the gun. I have read and read and read and read and read some more on this. Cannot find actual example of a failed 93 in the 308 family. Did read an article somewhere that the m93 was tested and finally had catastrophic failure at 98000psi. I have 40 round of factory winchester 100g left,after that who knows. The smith did say the rifle was safe to shoot. I already inquired about reloading light loads in the other forum. Reloading seems like it could be as enjoyable as shooting

December 27, 2009, 07:47 PM	#8
jeepershooter Junior Member Join Date: December 24, 2009 Location: Hawaii Posts: 5	jmtbiggin, I'm new on the board but I've been fooling around with rifles since the 60's. The guys know what they're talking about. I would quit going to that gunsmith and hang that rifle up.

December 27, 2009, 08:29 PM	#9
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Late model 1893 rifles had a gas escape port drilled in the left side of the receiver ring, and some early ones were retrofitted. It is large enough to deal with primer leak, but not large enough to deal with a complete case head failure. I have never seen a 93 Mauser "blow up" from using cartridges of the .308 class. But they are soft and not made for that pressure level; eventually the bolt lugs and the lug seats in the receiver will batter and create an excess headspace condition. You don't need GO/NO-GO gauges, only a field reject gauge. Depending on your loads, a check every 100 rounds would probably be a good idea. Also check your fired cases for any sign of stretching, like a bright ring around the case about 1/4" up from the base. If you see anything like that, stop firing the rifle immediately, like NOW. It is dangerous. I think a bolt shearing its lugs is extremely unlikely; I have never heard of such a thing except in an American rifle, the M1903 Springfield when single heat treated bolts failed. Here is something to think about. Imagine that the rifle is standing on its butt with the barrel pointing straight up. Now imagine a steel rod running down inside the barrel and on top of the rod is a platform. Every so often, a crane picks up a Ford 150 Super Cab pickup and drops it on the platform. That is about the pressure those bolt lugs have to stand up to every time the rifle is fired. So, don't minimize the effects of rifle pressures. Jim