Wanna get disgusted on several counts?

blackmind · November 2, 2005, 08:46 PM

This story should disgust you for several reasons.

First: a kid who is charged with using a stun gun in the death of a robbery victim was ever out on bail in the first place.

Second: When the cops locate the suspect, one fires all 15 rounds in his gun, and the other fires 7 rounds. This is in New York City! WHERE THE HELL DO THEY THINK ALL THE MISSES ARE GONNA GO?!

Maybe the problem is with cops not being selected so much from shooters, being that this is NYC and they are nowhere to be found. Maybe all these urbanite cops know of using their guns is, "Empty the gun into the suspect (or the vicinity) in the hope that that'll be enough to keep you safe from him if he's a threat." Maybe since they are not people who live and breathe "tacticality," they just default to some ultra-simplistic training suggestion and fire blindly until slide-lock, because they don't know any better.

Thoughts?

-blackmind

Radiki · November 2, 2005, 09:26 PM

I wonder if anyone could produce figures on police shootings in terms of #rnds./fired vs. hit ratio and cross refference with a map showing which are "pro-gun" states and which are "anti-gun" states (or cities).
Living outside D.C. I here of shootouts and how bullets"riddled a local neighborhood, in D.C. but on my side of the river fairfax, VA. There doesn't seem to be as much. My girlfriend works for FCPD and she tells me about some of the shootings and the story usually goes " The officer fired one or two shots...." and the suspect was hit, captured, etc... But it seems that NYC, California, you are always heaing about 38 shots fired.. four officers unload their magazines at the suspect with no one injured but some walls or car doors. Interesting...

Dwight55 · November 2, 2005, 09:32 PM

1. Need I say anything more about why I would not / do not live in NYC or any of its surrounding suburbs (read: within 250 miles).

2. What do you expect when the recruits come from a school system area that is and has been for decades, ardently left wing liberal, bleeding heart, anti-firearm, anti-hunting?

3. Twenty-two rounds = cheek wound / leg wound: fertile ground for an experienced firearms instructor.

May God bless,
Dwight

Harley Quinn · November 2, 2005, 09:33 PM

Lt's probabley middle age and out of shape, not shot much in quite a while.

Pretty revolting. The PDs are not able to shoot much now because of the cost to the taxpayer, so if they are to keep in a proficient mode they pay for the bullets themselves or only qualify 2 times a year.

The fact that the Juv'i is out does not surprise me. That has been the general rule for a long time. Why we have so much crime with the youngster's.
Handled with kid gloves. That is why as a citizen you need to be alert and take care of yourself. No one is going to do it for you.

Harley

blackmind · November 2, 2005, 10:43 PM

Outrage over teen suspect's release

No kidding, the victim's family has a right to be pissed off.

Stupid-ass bleeding-heart liberal judges in NYC. SHE should be the new robbery victim!

-blackmind

blackmind · November 2, 2005, 10:49 PM

dup, sorry

guntotin_fool · November 3, 2005, 12:29 AM

my first job after getting married was to paint apartments in a housing project between tenants. They are now called the crack stacks.

one day i had a work order to spackle and paint the lobby.

I walked up and looked and there were bullet holes everywhere. i counted 16 holes, then the elevator opened up. the inside of the elevator was riddled. another 26 holes.

I walked down and asked the supe "how many dead?" He said "none, not even any hits." Two cops were waiting in the lobby to ask a felons mom about sons whereabouts. Said felon was in the elevator, door opens and every one draws and shoots till slide lock.

two cops both with 12 + 1 S&W's and the felon with a hot Glock, 42 shots no hit at lobby range. cops and felon then proceded to fight like animals until the felon was slowed by three baton hits to his tender bits.

building Video shows a lobby full of people, also showed both cops shooting heads turned, off hand up to block the bullets jerking the guns all over.

Video also shows bigger cop pulling baton and grabbing leg of felon and then aiming at the felons crotch and swinging real hard. On third swing, felon just quits fighting, big stain starts on pants.

bad shooting on behalf of some cops just happens. of course, we also had a woman cop here kill a woman who had just shot her partner, 10 shots nine hits, four in the torso, one in the neck, four in the head.

blackmind · November 3, 2005, 01:07 AM

After three to the head, I can't figure out how there was even a head there to take a fourth hit! "You GO, girl!"

-blackmind

stratus · November 3, 2005, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harley Quinn

That has been the general rule for a long time. Why we have so much crime with the youngster's. Handled with kid gloves.

Pun intended?

Archie · November 3, 2005, 04:41 AM

The Los Angeles Police Department switched sidearms in about 1992 or so. They went from six round revolver, altered to fire double action only, to the Beretta 92, with a fifteen (sixteen?) round capacity.

Since that time, the annual shootings seem consistent with past years. They shoot about the same number of malefactors about the same number of times as they always have. But they fire three times as many rounds in the process.

The information comes from an individual with training connections. I can't point to any released information for verification, but I trust this person.

In most agencies, 'guns and shooting' are touchy subjects amoungst the 'officials'. Shootings routinely generate lawsuits, and in the mystic world of the political manager's mindset, blaming the guns is the key to solving the problems. One common tenet of faith is teaching too much marksmanship makes officers trigger happy. The opposite is true, but reality and management simply do not mix much.

BlueTrain · November 3, 2005, 06:35 AM

You might be interested in knowing that the assassin who killed Archduke Ferdinand and his wife in Sarajevo in 1914 had not fired a gun before. As I understand how the event developed, when their car approached where he was waiting, he jumped on the running board, pointed his pistol at them, turned his head and fired two round. Both victims were mortally wounded. The pistol was a .32 auto. The shooter died in prison (was not executed).

As a matter of curiosity, I might add that Pope John Paul was shot with a .32 auto and Ghandi was killed with a .32 auto.

45-70 · November 3, 2005, 07:44 AM

Blue Train, As long as we are off topic, most accounts are similar to Newsweek ( http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7351418/...wsweek/page/4/ ) and say that the Pope was shot with a 9 mm Browning.

dfaugh · November 3, 2005, 10:07 AM

That cops average 11% hit ratio, IIRC...Bad guys actually do better at 13%, but supposedly that's because they initiate fire from cover in many instances. This was supposed to be one of the reasons that LEOs went from revolvers to semi-autos...

Kinda scary when you think about it,..where do all those stray rounds go?...And, are the LEOs even aware of innocent bystanders? I would think, in a shooting situations, mostly they get a serious case of "tunnel vision".

PythonGuy · November 3, 2005, 10:20 AM

So guntotin_fool, you saw this building video and there was even enough resolution for you to see a big stain on the guys pants, huh? The rest of your story this true also?? You don't have to be a CSI to sift through this evidence.

mete · November 3, 2005, 10:56 AM

The last figures I've seen for the NYPD was IIRC for 2002, they hit their target in actual shootouts 10% of the time . In the past with 38s it was 20% !!!

Harley Quinn · November 3, 2005, 11:36 AM

Archie and what you are saying is quite right.

Policy and training go hand in hand. The more attention you pay to shooting the more aggressive to shoot, so it is a catch 22 I guess...

One of the more Infamous LAPD shooting's was just as Chief Davis left and Chief Gates took over the reins. Ms Love was hit many times and all she had was a knife, which she released at the officers... Expired on the scene. It was not pretty, but it was within policy.

Stratus. Yep

The Kid is a goat.

Harley

Limeyfellow · November 3, 2005, 11:53 AM

Most the antigun laws and so on in New York were the results of either Rudy Giuliani, pride of the conservative movement and potential candidate for the next Republican president, or Michael Bloomberg who is much in the same vain. Its typical for conservatives to hate firearms it seems.

Police are well known for firing alot of shots in a shoot out. They have about a 10-15% hit rate nowadays and most of those shots are at less than 15 feet. Its rather tragic.

blackmind · November 3, 2005, 01:36 PM

Huh? As I understand it, the anti-gun laws in NYC predate Rudy Giuliani by decades...

-blackmind

Musketeer · November 3, 2005, 01:59 PM

Gulianni and Bloomberg are certainly no frineds of freedom but 95% of the laws regarding guns in NYC predate them.

I find it funny that the cops in NY are the only ones allowed magazines of more than 10 rounds... It is a good thing they have them because it seems to take 10+ rounds for them to get one hit. I wonder what the hit rate is for lawful citizens? For NYC spray and pray is the order of the day. In the Dialo shooting you had four officers blazing away at a man with a wallet. Supposedly the first shot fired was from an officer who tripped going up the stairs to the building where the suspect was. Perhaps having his finger off the triger would have been a good idea... The remaining officers went on autopilot and just fired away. It seems the combination of high capacity and rapid reloadability (not present in a revolver) gives out NY public servents the attitude to fire until the slide locks back and then figure out what happenned while they reload.

PythonGuy · November 3, 2005, 02:05 PM

I have lived my whole life in NY, its been largely anti-gun since the 1970's as far as I am involved, and probably way before that. This is a liberal, democrat city from way back, anti everything that most Americans stand for. It stands to reason with the huge immigrant population, more welfare and freebies, less for the bad sucessful Americans that have lived here from years.

I moved out of the city in 1986 and the laws on Long Island, while less stringent, are still repressive. In a few years when my son enters college, I'll probably move to a truly free state like Maine. Its a dream, anyway......

Pointer · November 3, 2005, 02:13 PM

It is apparently worse in NY than other places...

But cops, the world over, are notoriously bad shots!

The rare few are the exception.

PythonGuy · November 3, 2005, 02:43 PM

My friend is a retired NYPD sargent and even he laughs at how inept most of the recruits are at shooting. He and I used to go shoot BB guns when we were kids, and .22 rifles when we were teenagers. The guys on the force bascially have to practice shooting on their own time and their own dime, so consequently they don't shoot. Couple that with it being nearly impossible to shoot as a youth in NYC and bingo, you have "The gang that couldn't shoot straight". All of which makes Chuck Schumer and Hillary Clinton very happy I'm sure, they hate guns, at least, that other people carry. Like the other phony in California, Barbara Boxer, they either have a CCL or armed body guards, we poor schmucks can make due with being beaten, robbed, killed or raped.

IZinterrogator · November 4, 2005, 10:05 PM

Quote:

The Los Angeles Police Department switched sidearms in about 1992 or so. They went from six round revolver, altered to fire double action only, to the Beretta 92, with a fifteen (sixteen?) round capacity.

Since that time, the annual shootings seem consistent with past years. They shoot about the same number of malefactors about the same number of times as they always have. But they fire three times as many rounds in the process.

Perhaps their unwritten policy is to fire until empty, regardless of type of sidearm or capacity, then stop and assess the situation?

CraZkid · November 4, 2005, 10:19 PM

"You might be interested in knowing that the assassin who killed Archduke Ferdinand and his wife in Sarajevo in 1914 had not fired a gun before. As I understand how the event developed, when their car approached where he was waiting, he jumped on the running board, pointed his pistol at them, turned his head and fired two round. Both victims were mortally wounded. The pistol was a .32 auto. The shooter died in prison (was not executed).

As a matter of curiosity, I might add that Pope John Paul was shot with a .32 auto and Ghandi was killed with a .32 auto."

"Blue Train, As long as we are off topic, most accounts are similar to Newsweek ( http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7351418/...wsweek/page/4/ ) and say that the Pope was shot with a 9 mm Browning."

Proof that the 9mm is an ineffective round and .32 is a real man-killer. If you don't pack .32 heat you are a [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color]!

Mikeyboy · November 4, 2005, 10:40 PM

Funny about the .32 thing, is it perhaps that .32 are popular and cheap in europe. You know to think about it , I'm not sure if I never seen a .32 pistol in real life. That is odd, must be that .380 is so popular. Kind of like the .41 mag being overwelmed by the .44 and .357. As for the cops, they need more training, try to get it more realistic, like the military. Perhaps having more qualifications, training, throwing in moving targets, even using the "laser tag" equipment the military uses.

November 2, 2005, 08:46 PM	#1
blackmind Junior member Join Date: July 21, 2005 Location: West Palm Beach, FL Posts: 1,224	Wanna get disgusted on several counts? This story should disgust you for several reasons. First: a kid who is charged with using a stun gun in the death of a robbery victim was ever out on bail in the first place. Second: When the cops locate the suspect, one fires all 15 rounds in his gun, and the other fires 7 rounds. This is in New York City! WHERE THE HELL DO THEY THINK ALL THE MISSES ARE GONNA GO?! Maybe the problem is with cops not being selected so much from shooters, being that this is NYC and they are nowhere to be found. Maybe all these urbanite cops know of using their guns is, "Empty the gun into the suspect (or the vicinity) in the hope that that'll be enough to keep you safe from him if he's a threat." Maybe since they are not people who live and breathe "tacticality," they just default to some ultra-simplistic training suggestion and fire blindly until slide-lock, because they don't know any better. Thoughts? -blackmind

November 2, 2005, 09:32 PM	#3
Dwight55 Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2004 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 2,568	1. Need I say anything more about why I would not / do not live in NYC or any of its surrounding suburbs (read: within 250 miles). 2. What do you expect when the recruits come from a school system area that is and has been for decades, ardently left wing liberal, bleeding heart, anti-firearm, anti-hunting? 3. Twenty-two rounds = cheek wound / leg wound: fertile ground for an experienced firearms instructor. May God bless, Dwight __________________ www.dwightsgunleather.com If you can breathe, . . . thank God! If you can read, . . . thank a teacher! If you are reading this in English, . . . thank a Veteran!

November 2, 2005, 09:33 PM	#4
Harley Quinn Junior member Join Date: August 30, 2005 Location: State of KALI Posts: 1,531	Pretty bad, 22 shots fired and only wounded the guy... Lt's probabley middle age and out of shape, not shot much in quite a while. Pretty revolting. The PDs are not able to shoot much now because of the cost to the taxpayer, so if they are to keep in a proficient mode they pay for the bullets themselves or only qualify 2 times a year. The fact that the Juv'i is out does not surprise me. That has been the general rule for a long time. Why we have so much crime with the youngster's. Handled with kid gloves. That is why as a citizen you need to be alert and take care of yourself. No one is going to do it for you. Harley

November 2, 2005, 10:43 PM	#5
blackmind Junior member Join Date: July 21, 2005 Location: West Palm Beach, FL Posts: 1,224	Follow-up story about the teen suspect Outrage over teen suspect's release No kidding, the victim's family has a right to be pissed off. Stupid-ass bleeding-heart liberal judges in NYC. SHE should be the new robbery victim! -blackmind

November 2, 2005, 10:49 PM	#6
blackmind Junior member Join Date: July 21, 2005 Location: West Palm Beach, FL Posts: 1,224	Follow-up story about the teen suspect dup, sorry

November 2, 2005, 09:26 PM	#2
Radiki Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2005 Posts: 145	I wonder if anyone could produce figures on police shootings in terms of #rnds./fired vs. hit ratio and cross refference with a map showing which are "pro-gun" states and which are "anti-gun" states (or cities). Living outside D.C. I here of shootouts and how bullets"riddled a local neighborhood, in D.C. but on my side of the river fairfax, VA. There doesn't seem to be as much. My girlfriend works for FCPD and she tells me about some of the shootings and the story usually goes " The officer fired one or two shots...." and the suspect was hit, captured, etc... But it seems that NYC, California, you are always heaing about 38 shots fired.. four officers unload their magazines at the suspect with no one injured but some walls or car doors. Interesting...

November 3, 2005, 12:29 AM	#7
guntotin_fool Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2004 Posts: 1,446	my first job after getting married was to paint apartments in a housing project between tenants. They are now called the crack stacks. one day i had a work order to spackle and paint the lobby. I walked up and looked and there were bullet holes everywhere. i counted 16 holes, then the elevator opened up. the inside of the elevator was riddled. another 26 holes. I walked down and asked the supe "how many dead?" He said "none, not even any hits." Two cops were waiting in the lobby to ask a felons mom about sons whereabouts. Said felon was in the elevator, door opens and every one draws and shoots till slide lock. two cops both with 12 + 1 S&W's and the felon with a hot Glock, 42 shots no hit at lobby range. cops and felon then proceded to fight like animals until the felon was slowed by three baton hits to his tender bits. building Video shows a lobby full of people, also showed both cops shooting heads turned, off hand up to block the bullets jerking the guns all over. Video also shows bigger cop pulling baton and grabbing leg of felon and then aiming at the felons crotch and swinging real hard. On third swing, felon just quits fighting, big stain starts on pants. bad shooting on behalf of some cops just happens. of course, we also had a woman cop here kill a woman who had just shot her partner, 10 shots nine hits, four in the torso, one in the neck, four in the head.

November 3, 2005, 01:07 AM	#8
blackmind Junior member Join Date: July 21, 2005 Location: West Palm Beach, FL Posts: 1,224	After three to the head, I can't figure out how there was even a head there to take a fourth hit! "You GO, girl!" -blackmind

November 3, 2005, 04:41 AM	#10
Archie Senior Member Join Date: May 26, 2000 Location: Hastings, Nebrasksa - the Hear Posts: 2,209	Trusted, but unverified information... The Los Angeles Police Department switched sidearms in about 1992 or so. They went from six round revolver, altered to fire double action only, to the Beretta 92, with a fifteen (sixteen?) round capacity. Since that time, the annual shootings seem consistent with past years. They shoot about the same number of malefactors about the same number of times as they always have. But they fire three times as many rounds in the process. The information comes from an individual with training connections. I can't point to any released information for verification, but I trust this person. In most agencies, 'guns and shooting' are touchy subjects amoungst the 'officials'. Shootings routinely generate lawsuits, and in the mystic world of the political manager's mindset, blaming the guns is the key to solving the problems. One common tenet of faith is teaching too much marksmanship makes officers trigger happy. The opposite is true, but reality and management simply do not mix much. __________________ There ain't no free lunch, except Jesus. Archie Check out updated journal at http://oldmanmontgomery.wordpress.com/

November 3, 2005, 06:35 AM	#11
BlueTrain Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 6,141	You might be interested in knowing that the assassin who killed Archduke Ferdinand and his wife in Sarajevo in 1914 had not fired a gun before. As I understand how the event developed, when their car approached where he was waiting, he jumped on the running board, pointed his pistol at them, turned his head and fired two round. Both victims were mortally wounded. The pistol was a .32 auto. The shooter died in prison (was not executed). As a matter of curiosity, I might add that Pope John Paul was shot with a .32 auto and Ghandi was killed with a .32 auto. __________________ Shoot low, sheriff. They're riding Shetlands! Underneath the starry flag, civilize 'em with a Krag, and return us to our own beloved homes! Buy War Bonds.

November 3, 2005, 07:44 AM	#12
45-70 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2005 Location: Dallas TX area Posts: 310	Pope shot with Browing High Power Blue Train, As long as we are off topic, most accounts are similar to Newsweek ( http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7351418/...wsweek/page/4/ ) and say that the Pope was shot with a 9 mm Browning.

November 3, 2005, 10:07 AM	#13
dfaugh Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2002 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 1,715	Read somewhere That cops average 11% hit ratio, IIRC...Bad guys actually do better at 13%, but supposedly that's because they initiate fire from cover in many instances. This was supposed to be one of the reasons that LEOs went from revolvers to semi-autos... Kinda scary when you think about it,..where do all those stray rounds go?...And, are the LEOs even aware of innocent bystanders? I would think, in a shooting situations, mostly they get a serious case of "tunnel vision". __________________ "If you Listen to Fools, the Mob Rules" "No one has the answer, but one thing is true. You'e got to turn on evil, when its coming after you. You've gotta face it down,and when it tries to hide, you've got to go in after it, and never be denied. Time is running out...Let's roll. Let's roll for freedom, let's roll for love. We're going after satan, on the wings of a dove. Let's roll for freedom, let's roll for truth. Let's not let our children grow up fearful in their youth."

November 3, 2005, 10:20 AM	#14
PythonGuy Junior member Join Date: November 4, 2004 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 456	So guntotin_fool, you saw this building video and there was even enough resolution for you to see a big stain on the guys pants, huh? The rest of your story this true also?? You don't have to be a CSI to sift through this evidence.

November 3, 2005, 10:56 AM	#15
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	The last figures I've seen for the NYPD was IIRC for 2002, they hit their target in actual shootouts 10% of the time . In the past with 38s it was 20% !!!

November 3, 2005, 11:36 AM	#16
Harley Quinn Junior member Join Date: August 30, 2005 Location: State of KALI Posts: 1,531	I know some of the people in Training Division in LAPD Archie and what you are saying is quite right. Policy and training go hand in hand. The more attention you pay to shooting the more aggressive to shoot, so it is a catch 22 I guess... One of the more Infamous LAPD shooting's was just as Chief Davis left and Chief Gates took over the reins. Ms Love was hit many times and all she had was a knife, which she released at the officers... Expired on the scene. It was not pretty, but it was within policy. Stratus. Yep The Kid is a goat. Harley

November 3, 2005, 11:53 AM	#17
Limeyfellow Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2005 Posts: 1,380	Most the antigun laws and so on in New York were the results of either Rudy Giuliani, pride of the conservative movement and potential candidate for the next Republican president, or Michael Bloomberg who is much in the same vain. Its typical for conservatives to hate firearms it seems. Police are well known for firing alot of shots in a shoot out. They have about a 10-15% hit rate nowadays and most of those shots are at less than 15 feet. Its rather tragic.

November 3, 2005, 01:36 PM	#18
blackmind Junior member Join Date: July 21, 2005 Location: West Palm Beach, FL Posts: 1,224	Huh? As I understand it, the anti-gun laws in NYC predate Rudy Giuliani by decades... -blackmind

November 3, 2005, 01:59 PM	#19
Musketeer Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2005 Posts: 3,733	Gulianni and Bloomberg are certainly no frineds of freedom but 95% of the laws regarding guns in NYC predate them. I find it funny that the cops in NY are the only ones allowed magazines of more than 10 rounds... It is a good thing they have them because it seems to take 10+ rounds for them to get one hit. I wonder what the hit rate is for lawful citizens? For NYC spray and pray is the order of the day. In the Dialo shooting you had four officers blazing away at a man with a wallet. Supposedly the first shot fired was from an officer who tripped going up the stairs to the building where the suspect was. Perhaps having his finger off the triger would have been a good idea... The remaining officers went on autopilot and just fired away. It seems the combination of high capacity and rapid reloadability (not present in a revolver) gives out NY public servents the attitude to fire until the slide locks back and then figure out what happenned while they reload.

November 3, 2005, 02:05 PM	#20
PythonGuy Junior member Join Date: November 4, 2004 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 456	I have lived my whole life in NY, its been largely anti-gun since the 1970's as far as I am involved, and probably way before that. This is a liberal, democrat city from way back, anti everything that most Americans stand for. It stands to reason with the huge immigrant population, more welfare and freebies, less for the bad sucessful Americans that have lived here from years. I moved out of the city in 1986 and the laws on Long Island, while less stringent, are still repressive. In a few years when my son enters college, I'll probably move to a truly free state like Maine. Its a dream, anyway......

November 3, 2005, 02:13 PM	#21
Pointer Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2005 Location: Utah Posts: 2,559	It is apparently worse in NY than other places... But cops, the world over, are notoriously bad shots! The rare few are the exception.

November 3, 2005, 02:43 PM	#22
PythonGuy Junior member Join Date: November 4, 2004 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 456	My friend is a retired NYPD sargent and even he laughs at how inept most of the recruits are at shooting. He and I used to go shoot BB guns when we were kids, and .22 rifles when we were teenagers. The guys on the force bascially have to practice shooting on their own time and their own dime, so consequently they don't shoot. Couple that with it being nearly impossible to shoot as a youth in NYC and bingo, you have "The gang that couldn't shoot straight". All of which makes Chuck Schumer and Hillary Clinton very happy I'm sure, they hate guns, at least, that other people carry. Like the other phony in California, Barbara Boxer, they either have a CCL or armed body guards, we poor schmucks can make due with being beaten, robbed, killed or raped.

November 4, 2005, 10:19 PM	#24
CraZkid Junior member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Posts: 435	"You might be interested in knowing that the assassin who killed Archduke Ferdinand and his wife in Sarajevo in 1914 had not fired a gun before. As I understand how the event developed, when their car approached where he was waiting, he jumped on the running board, pointed his pistol at them, turned his head and fired two round. Both victims were mortally wounded. The pistol was a .32 auto. The shooter died in prison (was not executed). As a matter of curiosity, I might add that Pope John Paul was shot with a .32 auto and Ghandi was killed with a .32 auto." "Blue Train, As long as we are off topic, most accounts are similar to Newsweek ( http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7351418/...wsweek/page/4/ ) and say that the Pope was shot with a 9 mm Browning." Proof that the 9mm is an ineffective round and .32 is a real man-killer. If you don't pack .32 heat you are a [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color]!

November 4, 2005, 10:40 PM	#25
Mikeyboy Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Posts: 1,231	Funny about the .32 thing, is it perhaps that .32 are popular and cheap in europe. You know to think about it , I'm not sure if I never seen a .32 pistol in real life. That is odd, must be that .380 is so popular. Kind of like the .41 mag being overwelmed by the .44 and .357. As for the cops, they need more training, try to get it more realistic, like the military. Perhaps having more qualifications, training, throwing in moving targets, even using the "laser tag" equipment the military uses.

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