October 5, 2012, 12:03 AM | #101 | |
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October 5, 2012, 06:23 AM | #102 | |
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As noted I have no problem with people doing distance shooting for fun. But thinking you're good to trade fire at range it tactically and legally inprudent. |
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October 5, 2012, 06:28 AM | #103 | |
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October 5, 2012, 07:04 AM | #104 |
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As usual, I'm late for the discussion, so I'll just put in my 2 cents for the OP: I personally only use full-size guns for CCW. To me, small guns are for BUG use only. I have no problem concealing a full-size weapon. In my case, I alternate between a Ruger P-90 .45 and another Ruger, a 4" stainless GP-100 .357 Magnum. Both disappear completely in an IWB rig underneath an un-tucked shirt. The way I see it, since fine motor skills tend to diminish under the stress of a gunfight, handling a tiny gun with correspondingly tiny controls would be pretty difficult compared to a full-sized piece. Besides, in my opinion, when it comes to certain things, like steaks, paychecks, locomotives, women, and guns..bigger is better!
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October 5, 2012, 07:07 AM | #105 |
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Put me in the camp of only needing a gun to shoot up to 10 yards away. Any more than that and you'll need a better lawyer. I like my Kahr.
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October 5, 2012, 07:12 AM | #106 | ||
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October 5, 2012, 08:31 AM | #107 |
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I agree with mavracer, however I'll point out that there can be exceptions to any and every rule. Case in point: The early 1990s incident involving a nut with an AK vs. a USAF Security Forces member, who was armed only with a 9mm Beretta. The aforementioned lunatic had been gleefully engaging in mass murder at a military base when he was intercepted by the SF man. From a distance of about 70 yards, the SF man used his issued M9 to cut down his rifle-armed adversary, who was actively shooting at him at the time. The good guy survived unscathed, the murderer was not so lucky.
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October 5, 2012, 09:00 AM | #108 |
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I'm not a cop. Thats not an SD example.
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October 5, 2012, 09:01 AM | #109 | |
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So the pistol is sort of a stand in compact rifle in effect. Even a full size pistol is very very compact when compared to a rifle. So why handicap yourself with a micro pistol? It's not about needing to shoot past 10 yds, it's about ease of effective use. It's easier to get effective hits at 10 yds or less with a bigger pistol than it is with a smaller pistol. It's easier to shoot faster with a bigger pistol than a smaller pistol. I can shoot twice as fast with my 5" 1911 than I can with my j frame. (effectively). I'm not slamming on you snubby guys, if you can shoot fast and accurate with your snubby, wonderful! I can not. But I can shoot my 911 better with one hand fast than I can those infernal snubs with two hands. Or so it seems to me. |
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October 5, 2012, 09:17 AM | #110 |
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Zincwarrior: True enough, but the point I was trying to make is that while a pistol is a pretty rotten weapon to take to a rifle fight, the handgunner can, in certain circumstances, still prevail. Besides, while it's true that the example I gave was more of an LE situation, the fact remains that the rifle-toting BG was shooting at the SF guy. So, while the SF man was, first and foremost, trying to stop a mass murderer, he was also at the same time defending himself. So, at least in one respect, this was an SD situation as well.
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October 5, 2012, 11:49 AM | #111 |
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Fullsize you talk about being a good gun owner and responsible citizen, yet you talk about shooting out tires and shooting randomly in the air. Are you using magic bullets that do not fall to the ground? No offense, but I hope new gun owners who might be reading this realize what it really means to be a good gun owner and responsible citizen. Real like is not a video game. Military people use rifles to control situations. Carrying a 5" handgun instead of a 3" handgun is not putting you in SEAL mode
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October 5, 2012, 11:54 AM | #112 | |
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You can't wear a full size 1911 in a dress shirt. You can theoretically wear a full size 1911 in shorts and light T shirt in August in Texas. If your locale and lifestyle permits you to carry a full size pistol, then excellent. For other people, conditions vary. One should carry what they can comfortably carry and confortably 24/7. That may be one pistol. It may be sveral different pistols. |
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October 5, 2012, 11:56 AM | #113 |
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fullsize
I am a law abiding citizen and where I live the law on CC is clear; pull and use your weapon to stop a person or persons directly engaged in attacking you, not to protect your property nor persons around you. We all know and me included we would break that law in the case of loved ones or in the case of a home invasion while your in your home.
Pulling your gun firing in the air would get my permit revoked and may bring a felony, it's not allowed here, neither can I move to act on behalf of the good of public saftey or as was stated "... a resoponsilbe gun owner..."; would I do something if I could, I don't know if I would give up my "safe" position of cover to get into the fight; if I did it would be under a very narrow circumstances. My weapon is for my protection and I would extend that to my family, but if a bad guy wants my shiny new Silverado Z71 that I worked hard for and he got the drop on me (meaning his gun in hand pointed at me, mine still holstered) then I'm giving up the truck, they still make trucks, but my life should not end trying to out draw this bad guy. If he lowers the gun, drops his head, or is otherwise distracted where I have a second to get my gun on target, it's on, and none of that can happen from more than 10ft-15ft away. Everytime we hear about a mass shooting we also hear least I have heard persons saying if I was there I woulda pulled my glock, my sig, whatever and did this or that, but having been on the other end of a gun barrel at close range from a car jacker, it unfolds quickly and in my case I was not carrying at the time and had I been I was seated in a car behind the wheel, not the ideal place to unholster a gun and get it on target and fire in the midst of the panic of seeing a gun pointed at me. So when persons say what they would do I just counter and say I hope you never have to find out cause you really don't know what you will do, as a gun carrier or not. |
October 5, 2012, 12:28 PM | #114 |
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Respond if the law permits. Have the weapon with you that you shoot best, for me, its a fullsize handgun. To me they give you the widest range of a fughting chance. If you are already drawn on, I dont advise going out in a blaze of glory.
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October 5, 2012, 01:23 PM | #115 | |
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October 5, 2012, 01:34 PM | #116 | |
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False. Very false generalization. I wear a full sized 1911 in a dress shirt easily. I can wear a Glock 21 in a dress shirt easily. |
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October 5, 2012, 02:13 PM | #117 |
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My choice for CCW was pretty easy I went for the LC9 sub comp. NYS limits a mag. to 10 shots anyway. So I went for comfort,reliability and accuracy.
My practice drills are from 5'-30' SD and 50' for target. Chances are my SD needs will be in the 5-30ft range and in home 30ft will be a stretch. I agree with jimbob86 Last edited by jsiberians; October 5, 2012 at 02:27 PM. |
October 5, 2012, 02:56 PM | #118 | |||
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October 5, 2012, 03:02 PM | #119 | |
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October 5, 2012, 03:06 PM | #120 | |
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A short aluminum 45 might be a good bit different though-say 25 ounces vs. 35 ounces for a full size. |
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October 5, 2012, 03:29 PM | #121 |
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oops. Sorry brother, didn't know "tucked in" was there. Yeah
..that's a no no. Lol. SIG 1911 XO / SA 1911 custom / Colt Gold Cup / Colt 70 Series / SIG P226 e2 / Browning High-power / Walther PPQ / G34 / G19 / G21 / G22 / S&W M-19 / Hk USP 40 / Rem 870 / Rock R. AR-15 sent from my Samsung Galaxy SII |
October 5, 2012, 04:03 PM | #122 |
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I carry a Sig P220R everyday. Somedays I carry IWB (primarily)others OWB. I make sure it is as concealed as possible, but it has still probably been spotted a time or two. Usually this is only by someone who knows what to look for.
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October 5, 2012, 06:16 PM | #123 |
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to sigcurious, tennjed, and rodeo roy
There are situation where shooting out a tire is legal, maybe not a robber, but in certain situations. And shooting a warning shot in the air DURING a crime in progress not just for fun, is justifiable. And as for the bullet coming down, myth busters killed that one. People, there are situations where all of these actions are justifiable, if done With a crime in progress. I don't know where you live, but in arkansas, during a violent crime all of the so called irresponsible actions that you speak of, is justifable during a crime in progress. Research your laws, it may be legal for you to stop a violent act as well. And not just on yourself.
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October 5, 2012, 07:17 PM | #124 | ||
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October 5, 2012, 07:50 PM | #125 |
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5-2-607 covers use of deadly force in AR, the situations you propose go beyond the scope of the law as written in almost every conceivable variation of the situations your propose. Even for the possible exceptions, due to the text of the law, does not mean it's ok. The second part of the law is case law, I would be greatly surprised if you found some case law regarding the shooting of a retreating person firing blindly behind them or shooting out of tires that says it's A-OK as you seem to believe.
There is probably some case law on warning shots and possibly even specifically between say discharging into the ground or the air. However nothing in AR law about use of deadly force/force specifically covers warning shots, so if there's some other portion of the law that specifically allows them please cite it. |
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