Smith&Wesson M&P-15

torque_to_spec · July 30, 2008, 09:55 PM

I am a plinker. My local range has a pit for hi-power rifles. I shoot bulk ammo 9mm, 7.62x39, and .22. A few duds with the .22, other than that no problems. I have shot thousands of rounds. All have 30 rnd clips.

I have shot a lot of other peoples guns at the range and wanted to get a .223 rifle. So for XMas my wife bought me a S&W M&P 15. I was stoked. I bought 1000 rnds of bulk ammo, steel case. It jams and won't shoot any of it. well i found in the manual it says steel case is no good and will jam. ok my bad. i bought 1000 rnds of brass M-193? military grade. it won't shoot any of it, it jams. so i bought a $17.00 box of 20, rem 223. didn't even fill the clip. that was the fastest 17 bucks i ever shot. pop pop pop like butter.

i think the bulk ammo doesn't have enough punch to drive the action back far enough to load the next shell.

i can pull back and manually load a round. it fires, ejects the spent round, and the next one in line will not load. always the same. bullet laying in there, scars on it's side. pointed at the barrel but can't get there. and i can just keep cocking it and it will manually load n eject all 30 rnds.

to me this gun is useless. i want to dump rounds and have fun and this ain't it. i have a $1,400.00 gun and really need a $500.00 one.

HAS ONYONE MODIFIED THIS GUN TO SHOOT ANY AMMO? CAN I GET A WEAKER SPRING SO IT WILL LOAD AMMO THAT ISN'T CURRENTLY LOADING? ANYONE WANT A GUN AT A GOOD PRICE?

TCman · July 30, 2008, 10:27 PM

before I even shot my doublestar ar15 i locked the bolt open and let it sit for about a week or so. It has never jammed on the wolf ammo that I put through it. Idk if that will help or not. My dealer said the m&p15 wont cycle steel cased ammo very well.

SigfanTN · July 31, 2008, 01:04 PM

It could be the magazine. Try loading one round in a mag, and if it fires, ejects, and the bolt locks back, then you should try a different magazine. Even if the bolt doesn't lock back I would try a different, quality magazine anyway. If you can get your hands on any of the Magpul Pmags, they are supposed to be some of the best.

If the M193 is truly that and is mil-spec ammo, and you are having the same problems with that I would think it is a weapon problem and not the ammo. True mil-spec 5.56 ammo is a higher pressure round than regular .223, and should function just as well or better in an AR-15. As far as the Wolf stuff goes, I believe it is cheap for a reason. I have shot it before in my pistols, and it is dirty, and the laquer on the cases can cause issues with poor extraction when the gun heats up. I will not use Wolf ammo in any of my weapons, even if just for practice. Check ammunitiontogo.com for some good prices on practice ammo. I have ordered from him before, and had no problems.

I have also heard that a heavier buffer can correct problems with hard extraction on a carbine-length AR.

If trying a different magazine does not fix the issue, then you might want to contact S&W.

bclark1 · July 31, 2008, 02:00 PM

When you say "it jams" - do we mean stovepipe, failure to eject altogether (casing in chamber), failure to cycle (casing comes out of chamber but not entirely), or failure to feed? It sounds like failure to feed, not eject, but if the action wasn't cycling back very far then it might not eject, either.

There are a number of things you could do, but I would say first, clean, lube and cycle it a fair bit. New M16-style rifles can soak up a ton of lubricant, and have lots of moving parts that might require some post-factory polishing from use. Locking the bolt back to get the spring moving might not hurt, and just cycling it general should help out. Make sure there's nothing squirrelly with your gas system. The goal is to get it to eat almost anything - and most manuals will suggest avoiding steel-case even though it will usually work fine. I would try to smooth things out with a "break in" period before throwing in the towel or switching out factory parts. Quality mags might help, too, but if the resistance from friction from the next round in a stiff magazine is enough to screw up cycling, something else is going on too.

Arabia · July 31, 2008, 03:11 PM

Someone recently posted about having a similar problem with their M&P AR-15. If the Mil-spec ammo is not properly cycling the action than the problem lies with the rifle. Probably a leak in the gas system. I would call S&W and have them look at. Before you send it back you might want to buy some GI-spec magazines and some Magpul Polymer mags. If that does not solve the problem then send it back.

Quote:

I have shot it before in my pistols, and it is dirty, and the laquer on the cases can cause issues with poor extraction when the gun heats up. I will not use Wolf ammo in any of my weapons, even if just for practice.

FYI, Wolf no longer uses lacquer on their steel case ammo. A few years ago they switched to a polymer coat which fixed the issue with the lacquer melting onto the chamber in many rifles. The problem with Wolf and most cheap Russian ammo is that it is underpowered compared to other western ammo. This can cause cycling issues in semi-auto rifles. When my AR was new it would not cycle Wolf worth a damn.

Denny Hansen · July 31, 2008, 04:50 PM

Since "jam" is what one puts on toast and you did not specify what kind of malfunction is occuring, you may look at the following:

Make sure the screws on the carrier key on top of the bolt carrier are tight. If the key moves at all, it will cause function problems. It should also have stake marks on the screws and the BC. If it is not staked, any reputable gunsmisth can to the job quickly for a few bucks.

Many guns come from a manufacturer next to dry. Did you lube the bolt and bolt carrier? Keep the bolt well lubed with a quality lube like Weapon Shield or Slip 2000. General rule of thumb for the bolt group (and the inside of the upper) is, "If it shines, it needs lube."

Bart Noir · July 31, 2008, 07:14 PM

My new M&P15T would short stroke at least once per magazine, and those were 20-rounders!

I didn't know enough to lube it right. Seems Uncle Sam taught me about the M-14, but I still have no excuse.

The AR design like lots of oil on the sliding surfaces, to include where the bolt moves around inside the bolt carrier. Learn where the parts slid inside the upper receiver, lube those surfaces and maybe your problems will go away. Not too worry when the first shots cause some smoke from the receiver

Bart Noir

3StrikesNC · July 31, 2008, 09:16 PM

I recently purchased an M&P 15.

I also purchased 1000 rounds of Wolf .223 steel case ammo.

It works great. I have not had a single jam/misfire/problem. I bought the wolf cause I didn't want to pick up the cases, don't know if I will reload this caliber or not.

I have been very happy. Two years ago I wouldn't touch a Smith (the Clinton deal really ticked me off, but they were different owners then). I now have plenty.

Anyway, I'd look at some of the things suggested here. If that doesn't work, call Smith. Something is wrong.

jakeswensonmt · August 1, 2008, 11:44 AM

Try a different magazine, and put a big old squirt of CLP on the bolt carrier group. It doesn't seem like an AR can be too wet. I read somewhere that a guy tried dipping his BCG in a bucket of motor oil and inserting the dripping bolt back in the rifle and it functioned perfectly.

July 30, 2008, 09:55 PM	#1
torque_to_spec Junior Member Join Date: July 30, 2008 Posts: 2	Smith&Wesson M&P-15 I am a plinker. My local range has a pit for hi-power rifles. I shoot bulk ammo 9mm, 7.62x39, and .22. A few duds with the .22, other than that no problems. I have shot thousands of rounds. All have 30 rnd clips. I have shot a lot of other peoples guns at the range and wanted to get a .223 rifle. So for XMas my wife bought me a S&W M&P 15. I was stoked. I bought 1000 rnds of bulk ammo, steel case. It jams and won't shoot any of it. well i found in the manual it says steel case is no good and will jam. ok my bad. i bought 1000 rnds of brass M-193? military grade. it won't shoot any of it, it jams. so i bought a $17.00 box of 20, rem 223. didn't even fill the clip. that was the fastest 17 bucks i ever shot. pop pop pop like butter. i think the bulk ammo doesn't have enough punch to drive the action back far enough to load the next shell. i can pull back and manually load a round. it fires, ejects the spent round, and the next one in line will not load. always the same. bullet laying in there, scars on it's side. pointed at the barrel but can't get there. and i can just keep cocking it and it will manually load n eject all 30 rnds. to me this gun is useless. i want to dump rounds and have fun and this ain't it. i have a $1,400.00 gun and really need a $500.00 one. HAS ONYONE MODIFIED THIS GUN TO SHOOT ANY AMMO? CAN I GET A WEAKER SPRING SO IT WILL LOAD AMMO THAT ISN'T CURRENTLY LOADING? ANYONE WANT A GUN AT A GOOD PRICE?

July 30, 2008, 10:27 PM	#2
TCman Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2006 Location: Indiana Posts: 514	before I even shot my doublestar ar15 i locked the bolt open and let it sit for about a week or so. It has never jammed on the wolf ammo that I put through it. Idk if that will help or not. My dealer said the m&p15 wont cycle steel cased ammo very well. __________________ Il keep my freedom, my guns, and my money. You can keep the change.

July 31, 2008, 04:50 PM	#6
Denny Hansen Staff Emeritus Join Date: June 29, 2001 Location: Prescott Valley, AZ Posts: 2,422	Since "jam" is what one puts on toast and you did not specify what kind of malfunction is occuring, you may look at the following: Make sure the screws on the carrier key on top of the bolt carrier are tight. If the key moves at all, it will cause function problems. It should also have stake marks on the screws and the BC. If it is not staked, any reputable gunsmisth can to the job quickly for a few bucks. Many guns come from a manufacturer next to dry. Did you lube the bolt and bolt carrier? Keep the bolt well lubed with a quality lube like Weapon Shield or Slip 2000. General rule of thumb for the bolt group (and the inside of the upper) is, "If it shines, it needs lube." __________________ S.W.A.T. Magazine Weapons, Training and Tactics for the Real World Join us at TFL or at AR15.com or on Facebook

July 31, 2008, 07:14 PM	#7
Bart Noir Senior Member Join Date: August 5, 2000 Location: Puget Sound, USA Posts: 2,215	Lubing was my answer. My new M&P15T would short stroke at least once per magazine, and those were 20-rounders! I didn't know enough to lube it right. Seems Uncle Sam taught me about the M-14, but I still have no excuse. The AR design like lots of oil on the sliding surfaces, to include where the bolt moves around inside the bolt carrier. Learn where the parts slid inside the upper receiver, lube those surfaces and maybe your problems will go away. Not too worry when the first shots cause some smoke from the receiver Bart Noir __________________ Be of good cheer and mindful of your gun muzzle!

July 31, 2008, 01:04 PM	#3
SigfanTN Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2008 Posts: 183	It could be the magazine. Try loading one round in a mag, and if it fires, ejects, and the bolt locks back, then you should try a different magazine. Even if the bolt doesn't lock back I would try a different, quality magazine anyway. If you can get your hands on any of the Magpul Pmags, they are supposed to be some of the best. If the M193 is truly that and is mil-spec ammo, and you are having the same problems with that I would think it is a weapon problem and not the ammo. True mil-spec 5.56 ammo is a higher pressure round than regular .223, and should function just as well or better in an AR-15. As far as the Wolf stuff goes, I believe it is cheap for a reason. I have shot it before in my pistols, and it is dirty, and the laquer on the cases can cause issues with poor extraction when the gun heats up. I will not use Wolf ammo in any of my weapons, even if just for practice. Check ammunitiontogo.com for some good prices on practice ammo. I have ordered from him before, and had no problems. I have also heard that a heavier buffer can correct problems with hard extraction on a carbine-length AR. If trying a different magazine does not fix the issue, then you might want to contact S&W.

July 31, 2008, 02:00 PM	#4
bclark1 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,531	When you say "it jams" - do we mean stovepipe, failure to eject altogether (casing in chamber), failure to cycle (casing comes out of chamber but not entirely), or failure to feed? It sounds like failure to feed, not eject, but if the action wasn't cycling back very far then it might not eject, either. There are a number of things you could do, but I would say first, clean, lube and cycle it a fair bit. New M16-style rifles can soak up a ton of lubricant, and have lots of moving parts that might require some post-factory polishing from use. Locking the bolt back to get the spring moving might not hurt, and just cycling it general should help out. Make sure there's nothing squirrelly with your gas system. The goal is to get it to eat almost anything - and most manuals will suggest avoiding steel-case even though it will usually work fine. I would try to smooth things out with a "break in" period before throwing in the towel or switching out factory parts. Quality mags might help, too, but if the resistance from friction from the next round in a stiff magazine is enough to screw up cycling, something else is going on too.

July 31, 2008, 09:16 PM	#8
3StrikesNC Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2007 Location: in a house Posts: 473	I recently purchased an M&P 15. I also purchased 1000 rounds of Wolf .223 steel case ammo. It works great. I have not had a single jam/misfire/problem. I bought the wolf cause I didn't want to pick up the cases, don't know if I will reload this caliber or not. I have been very happy. Two years ago I wouldn't touch a Smith (the Clinton deal really ticked me off, but they were different owners then). I now have plenty. Anyway, I'd look at some of the things suggested here. If that doesn't work, call Smith. Something is wrong.

August 1, 2008, 11:44 AM	#9
jakeswensonmt Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2006 Location: Western Montana Posts: 913	Try a different magazine, and put a big old squirt of CLP on the bolt carrier group. It doesn't seem like an AR can be too wet. I read somewhere that a guy tried dipping his BCG in a bucket of motor oil and inserting the dripping bolt back in the rifle and it functioned perfectly.