Cases Stick

Freeloader Reloader · June 24, 2016, 07:44 AM

Getting ready to load some brand new .45 ACP cases with 230gn FMJ-RN. Pass them through the resizing die (just to be on the safe side) but after charging and expanding the mouth, the case is very hard to extract from the powder funnel on my Dillon RL550B. I'm not making the mouth too wide or too shallow but it really is a pain having to put that much effort into getting the case out of the die. I even tried a small amount of Dillon Case Lube on the outside of the tip of the funnel but it didn't help. Any thoughts?

qrz · June 24, 2016, 08:54 AM

Assuming the cases are the same length: It's not uncommon for new cases needing chamfer/debur. Any chance that is the source of the friction? Is the flare set to where it just barely holds the bullet when shook?

condor bravo · June 24, 2016, 08:59 AM

Strange situation. Assuming that the new case mouths are not excessively out of round, try some without sizing first. Sizing shouldn't be necessary to begin with. Since you are using jacketed bullets rather than cast, perhaps you are applying more flare than needed. This is not much of an answer but I haven't encountered that in thirty some calibers with the 550 powder flaring die. After sizing the cases, does it appear that they might be oversized? Let us know when you get a solution.

condor bravo · June 24, 2016, 09:39 AM

Here's another thought. Since you are just getting set up, start by putting through a completed round single stage through to completion in the event you are now doing it progressively. That way you can at least make sure that the hang up is happening during flaring rather than at another stage.

g.willikers · June 24, 2016, 10:00 AM

Does the 550 flare and operate the powder drop at the same station?
If so, maybe a little more case flare might free up the cases.
And a little more crimp at the last station will be needed to compensate.
At least that's how my square deal works with a similar setup.

**Unclenick** · June 24, 2016, 11:24 AM

FR,

Dillon is currently advising people not to use stainless pin cleaning because the clean cases hang up as you describe. New cases can do the same thing. It's just a matter of a surface that's so smooth it sticks.

You can address this in a number of ways. You can apply inside neck lube to your cases. You can rough up the drop tube a little by turning it under some sand paper, then burnishing some graphite into it. You can apply Shooter's Solutions Moly Fusion product to it to make a permanently lubed surface. If you have some cases you are willing to sacrifice, you can mix a slurry of JB Bore compound with Tetra grease or TWB-25B or some other PTFE (Teflon) bearing grease and rub it on the expander portion of the rod and tap or feed some cases on and off of it until it smooths up. The JB will embed the Teflon into the steel. Teflon is not a good thing in a barrel, tending to change properties with temperature and moving groups around, so that's why I suggest the sacrificial cases, followed by disassembly and cleaning off all excess.

T. O'Heir · June 24, 2016, 12:02 PM

"...cases needing chamfer/deburr..." Not .45 or other handgun cases. I suspect you have too much flare. You only need enough to be able to sit the bullet in and no more.

alexcue · June 24, 2016, 12:09 PM

As usual Unclenick is dead on! You can get cases too clean. I've had to lube .357, .44 and 45Colt cases because when they were new they would chatter too much. I've also had some once fired pin tumbled brass that was chattering like crazy! I had to lube the pistol cases to make them work right. To be honest, it made a huge difference in the total effort to resize them, so it was a wash.

Once i tumble them with nu-finish polish in the media, i rarely have that issue again.

Freeloader Reloader · June 24, 2016, 02:22 PM

Thanks for all the tips. I will try them out and see which, if any, does the trick. I did resize them and I don't think the flare is too wide...if anything, it may not be quite wide enough. I just finished loading 500 of the same caliber and same bullet, only difference is the brand new cases. I'll keep messing around with it and let you know.
Thanks again

1100 tac · June 24, 2016, 08:24 PM

Uncle Nick has covered it, I have been loading .45acp with my 550b for over 23 years. Some years after I started using it I started to get sticking, and noticed my powder funnel was smooth and shiny. Just for grins at the time I roughed it up a little by spinning it with my fingers with 280 wet/dry paper.It worked until the next time, then I beadblasted it, worked much longer.

I want to try grinding a M die profile on my old one and see what happens. No, NOT with my bench grinder.

higgite · June 24, 2016, 08:29 PM

I had the same problem with some super clean once fired 9mm brass. My solution was to tumble it in walnut in a vibratory tumbler with a little extra Flitz than what I normally use. Let the tumbler run for a few minutes to bust up any clumps before adding the brass. I only tumbled the brass for about a half hour since it was already clean. It also made it easier to size. I also cleaned the expander of residual brass that had galled to it before I treated the brass.

BigJimP · June 24, 2016, 11:46 PM

No mention of whether you are using Dillon case lube on all of your cases or not....

Even with carbide dies....case lube makes the press run significantly smoother...

....lay cases flat in a tray - and spritz them lightly with case lube ....roll them around - let them dry for 15 min - and run them thru press - and see if that solves your problem....

If that doesn't fix it ...move on to suggestions above....

June 24, 2016, 07:44 AM	#1
Freeloader Reloader Member Join Date: May 12, 2014 Location: New Orleans, LA area Posts: 54	Cases Stick Getting ready to load some brand new .45 ACP cases with 230gn FMJ-RN. Pass them through the resizing die (just to be on the safe side) but after charging and expanding the mouth, the case is very hard to extract from the powder funnel on my Dillon RL550B. I'm not making the mouth too wide or too shallow but it really is a pain having to put that much effort into getting the case out of the die. I even tried a small amount of Dillon Case Lube on the outside of the tip of the funnel but it didn't help. Any thoughts? __________________ Rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it!

June 24, 2016, 08:59 AM	#3
condor bravo Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2014 Location: Nevada/Ariz/CA Posts: 1,753	Strange situation. Assuming that the new case mouths are not excessively out of round, try some without sizing first. Sizing shouldn't be necessary to begin with. Since you are using jacketed bullets rather than cast, perhaps you are applying more flare than needed. This is not much of an answer but I haven't encountered that in thirty some calibers with the 550 powder flaring die. After sizing the cases, does it appear that they might be oversized? Let us know when you get a solution. __________________ Ouch, the dreaded "M-1 thumb", you just know it will happen eventually, so why not do it now and get it over with??

June 24, 2016, 09:39 AM	#4
condor bravo Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2014 Location: Nevada/Ariz/CA Posts: 1,753	Here's another thought. Since you are just getting set up, start by putting through a completed round single stage through to completion in the event you are now doing it progressively. That way you can at least make sure that the hang up is happening during flaring rather than at another stage. __________________ Ouch, the dreaded "M-1 thumb", you just know it will happen eventually, so why not do it now and get it over with??

June 24, 2016, 10:00 AM	#5
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Does the 550 flare and operate the powder drop at the same station? If so, maybe a little more case flare might free up the cases. And a little more crimp at the last station will be needed to compensate. At least that's how my square deal works with a similar setup. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

June 24, 2016, 11:24 AM	#6
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	FR, Dillon is currently advising people not to use stainless pin cleaning because the clean cases hang up as you describe. New cases can do the same thing. It's just a matter of a surface that's so smooth it sticks. You can address this in a number of ways. You can apply inside neck lube to your cases. You can rough up the drop tube a little by turning it under some sand paper, then burnishing some graphite into it. You can apply Shooter's Solutions Moly Fusion product to it to make a permanently lubed surface. If you have some cases you are willing to sacrifice, you can mix a slurry of JB Bore compound with Tetra grease or TWB-25B or some other PTFE (Teflon) bearing grease and rub it on the expander portion of the rod and tap or feed some cases on and off of it until it smooths up. The JB will embed the Teflon into the steel. Teflon is not a good thing in a barrel, tending to change properties with temperature and moving groups around, so that's why I suggest the sacrificial cases, followed by disassembly and cleaning off all excess. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

June 24, 2016, 08:54 AM	#2
qrz Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2016 Posts: 101	Assuming the cases are the same length: It's not uncommon for new cases needing chamfer/debur. Any chance that is the source of the friction? Is the flare set to where it just barely holds the bullet when shook?

June 24, 2016, 12:02 PM	#7
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...cases needing chamfer/deburr..." Not .45 or other handgun cases. I suspect you have too much flare. You only need enough to be able to sit the bullet in and no more. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

June 24, 2016, 12:09 PM	#8
alexcue Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2015 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 134	As usual Unclenick is dead on! You can get cases too clean. I've had to lube .357, .44 and 45Colt cases because when they were new they would chatter too much. I've also had some once fired pin tumbled brass that was chattering like crazy! I had to lube the pistol cases to make them work right. To be honest, it made a huge difference in the total effort to resize them, so it was a wash. Once i tumble them with nu-finish polish in the media, i rarely have that issue again.

June 24, 2016, 02:22 PM	#9
Freeloader Reloader Member Join Date: May 12, 2014 Location: New Orleans, LA area Posts: 54	Cases sticking Thanks for all the tips. I will try them out and see which, if any, does the trick. I did resize them and I don't think the flare is too wide...if anything, it may not be quite wide enough. I just finished loading 500 of the same caliber and same bullet, only difference is the brand new cases. I'll keep messing around with it and let you know. Thanks again __________________ Rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it!

June 24, 2016, 08:24 PM	#10
1100 tac Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2012 Posts: 299	Uncle Nick has covered it, I have been loading .45acp with my 550b for over 23 years. Some years after I started using it I started to get sticking, and noticed my powder funnel was smooth and shiny. Just for grins at the time I roughed it up a little by spinning it with my fingers with 280 wet/dry paper.It worked until the next time, then I beadblasted it, worked much longer. I want to try grinding a M die profile on my old one and see what happens. No, NOT with my bench grinder. Last edited by 1100 tac; June 24, 2016 at 08:30 PM.

June 24, 2016, 08:29 PM	#11
higgite Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2010 Posts: 1,025	I had the same problem with some super clean once fired 9mm brass. My solution was to tumble it in walnut in a vibratory tumbler with a little extra Flitz than what I normally use. Let the tumbler run for a few minutes to bust up any clumps before adding the brass. I only tumbled the brass for about a half hour since it was already clean. It also made it easier to size. I also cleaned the expander of residual brass that had galled to it before I treated the brass.

June 24, 2016, 11:46 PM	#12
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	No mention of whether you are using Dillon case lube on all of your cases or not.... Even with carbide dies....case lube makes the press run significantly smoother... ....lay cases flat in a tray - and spritz them lightly with case lube ....roll them around - let them dry for 15 min - and run them thru press - and see if that solves your problem.... If that doesn't fix it ...move on to suggestions above....