working up a load

rebs · July 5, 2016, 07:16 AM

when you guys work up a load for accuracy in 223 AR's, what range do you shoot at 50, 100 or 200 yds ?

Reloadron · July 5, 2016, 07:58 AM

I generally look for nice tight groups at 100 yards thm move back to the 200 or 300 yard lines and see what I have. If I start with a heavy bullet like 70 to 80 grains I start at the 200 yard line looking at my groups.

Just My Take
Ron

Ifishsum · July 5, 2016, 10:00 AM

100y is my minimum if looking for a load w/best accuracy - I don't believe 50yds is enough to show a subtle accuracy differences between loads but it's probably okay if you're mainly looking for a general POA and cycling test. Like Ron I like to take it to 200 once I start to home in on a good load.

Brian Pfleuger · July 5, 2016, 01:10 PM

It doesn't really matter what kind of cartridge or gun it is, you should shoot at the farthest distance at which you know that both you and the cartridge are capable of shooting good groups under the circumstances.

You wouldn't test a .30-30 at 500 yards (Watch, someone will tell me why they would under XYZ circumstance with ABC gun) but if you know you can shoot 2" at 200, you know a .223 is plenty capable at that distance and conditions are favorable, there is no reason to shoot closer. Or 300 if you're up to it, or 500, whatever you and the gun and conditions warrant.

With some bullets (read: "boattail"), you want to be at 300 or better before they're improved BC makes them out shoot flat base bullets any how.

T. O'Heir · July 5, 2016, 01:48 PM

100 is the norm working up the load for any rifle. Sight-in targets are graduated in 1" squares for 100, as well.
However, a lot of it is about not having to walk 200 yards to change targets taking too long. Get you yelled at by other shooters.
50 is just too close.

rebs · July 5, 2016, 02:04 PM

Brian are you saying boat tail bullets are only an advantage over 300 yds ? Our club range only goes to 300 yds so I would be just as well off shooting flat base bullets right ? Is there any advantage to soft points, hollow points or full metal jacket bullets ?

cw308 · July 5, 2016, 02:07 PM

When starting with a new HP rifle 100 yards. Once your comfortable shooting the rifle finding a good accurate load that groups tight then move to 200. Get rid of those bad habits at 100 yards, zero your scope setting at 100 & keep notes.

Chainsaw. · July 5, 2016, 02:18 PM

If you are just target shooting just use a FMJ, might glen a slight cost savings.

Brian Pfleuger · July 5, 2016, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rebs

Brian are you saying boat tail bullets are only an advantage over 300 yds ? Our club range only goes to 300 yds so I would be just as well off shooting flat base bullets right ? Is there any advantage to soft points, hollow points or full metal jacket bullets ?

Well, yes, I am saying that but I'll have to leave it up to Nick or some other guru to fill in the expansive details.

In short, the base of a boattail spends nanoseconds more time in the muzzle blast than a flat base and the boat-tail is angled relative to the blast. That means that the blast can upset the bullet a tad and it takes (give or take) 300 yards for the gyroscopic stability to even out that disturbance. Up until that point, the flat base bullets may well out shoot a boat-tail that they will not out shoot at 400 or 500 or beyond.

Also, as I recall, it has been suggested that the difficulty in producing a perfect boattail shape over and over again may contribute to early instabilities. Whether or not this is true, I'll also leave to one of the gurus.

As far as the various "points", anything that contributes to each bullet being the exact same as the previous and next one will improve your group size. I personally don't like exposed lead as I feel like it's too easily damaged and could effect flight. However, I also know that it's been proven that the base is FAR more important than the nose. I can't find a link at the moment but the experiments have been done, by drilling holes at various places and testing accuracy.

I like polymer tipped bullets for their toughness (in handling), their consistency, their imporoved BC and also for their looks. Why do I care that my ammo is pretty? I have no idea, but I do.

Reloadron · July 5, 2016, 02:42 PM

rebs:

Quote:

Brian are you saying boat tail bullets are only an advantage over 300 yds ? Our club range only goes to 300 yds so I would be just as well off shooting flat base bullets right ? Is there any advantage to soft points, hollow points or full metal jacket bullets ?

This is a good read on the subject which can be debated indefinitely. There are also very good bullets in each category, boat tail and flat base. When I load .308 Win or .223 Rem for accuracy I tend to run with the more costly match type bullets, for example the Sierra Match King bullets or Berger bullets. For what many call "plinking" ammunition there are frequent sales at distributors of the flat base bullets. Dog Town bullets at Midway come to mind.

Just My Take
Ron

July 5, 2016, 07:16 AM	#1
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	working up a load when you guys work up a load for accuracy in 223 AR's, what range do you shoot at 50, 100 or 200 yds ?

July 5, 2016, 01:10 PM	#4
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	It doesn't really matter what kind of cartridge or gun it is, you should shoot at the farthest distance at which you know that both you and the cartridge are capable of shooting good groups under the circumstances. You wouldn't test a .30-30 at 500 yards (Watch, someone will tell me why they would under XYZ circumstance with ABC gun) but if you know you can shoot 2" at 200, you know a .223 is plenty capable at that distance and conditions are favorable, there is no reason to shoot closer. Or 300 if you're up to it, or 500, whatever you and the gun and conditions warrant. With some bullets (read: "boattail"), you want to be at 300 or better before they're improved BC makes them out shoot flat base bullets any how. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

July 5, 2016, 01:48 PM	#5
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	100 is the norm working up the load for any rifle. Sight-in targets are graduated in 1" squares for 100, as well. However, a lot of it is about not having to walk 200 yards to change targets taking too long. Get you yelled at by other shooters. 50 is just too close. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

July 5, 2016, 07:58 AM	#2
Reloadron Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 2016 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Suburbs Posts: 1,750	I generally look for nice tight groups at 100 yards thm move back to the 200 or 300 yard lines and see what I have. If I start with a heavy bullet like 70 to 80 grains I start at the 200 yard line looking at my groups. Just My Take Ron

July 5, 2016, 10:00 AM	#3
Ifishsum Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,033	100y is my minimum if looking for a load w/best accuracy - I don't believe 50yds is enough to show a subtle accuracy differences between loads but it's probably okay if you're mainly looking for a general POA and cycling test. Like Ron I like to take it to 200 once I start to home in on a good load.

July 5, 2016, 02:04 PM	#6
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	Brian are you saying boat tail bullets are only an advantage over 300 yds ? Our club range only goes to 300 yds so I would be just as well off shooting flat base bullets right ? Is there any advantage to soft points, hollow points or full metal jacket bullets ?

July 5, 2016, 02:07 PM	#7
cw308 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2010 Location: Plainview , Long Island NY Posts: 3,863	When starting with a new HP rifle 100 yards. Once your comfortable shooting the rifle finding a good accurate load that groups tight then move to 200. Get rid of those bad habits at 100 yards, zero your scope setting at 100 & keep notes.

July 5, 2016, 02:18 PM	#8
Chainsaw. Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2015 Location: Issaquah WA. Its a dry rain. Posts: 1,774	If you are just target shooting just use a FMJ, might glen a slight cost savings.