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Old April 3, 2020, 06:10 AM   #1
Pond, James Pond
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Could the CZ75/SP01 platform handle 10mm?

I believe Tanfoglio have a 10mm and they are CZ clones, so could the original incarnation of the 75 or 01 be chambered in 10mm Auto?

And if so, why for the love of all that goes bang have CZ not done it?!
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Old April 3, 2020, 06:58 AM   #2
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Tanfoglio produces 'sorta CZ-ish' 10mm pistols in its Witness line.

Debate continues as to whether CZ hasn't been 'experimenting' for some years now with a 10mm pistol of its own built on the 97B platform ...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iIK6cFPevmE

CZ pistols have been generally regarded as enjoying higher Q.C. standards than is the case with Tanfoglio's Witnesses, ... the worst part being, if you do have an issue with a Witness pistol, you then have to deal with their importer's (EAA's) rather sucky 'customer service' for warranty work.
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Old April 3, 2020, 07:27 AM   #3
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OMG! That video was posted in 2013!!

Could they take any longer?!

I would seriously consider ditching my SP-01 for one of those, although I seem to recall some whisperings that the 97 was not as reliable as the 75.

No idea if there is any truth in that, though...
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Old April 3, 2020, 03:08 PM   #4
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About the time that video was posted, we had a CZ rep at our range, I asked about it, and the guy said they were focused on 9mm.
Now, he didn't say they weren't working on anything else, and that was a good while ago.
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Old April 3, 2020, 08:45 PM   #5
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CZ Custom shop will take a 97B and convert it to 10mm. They debuted it at Shot Show 2020.

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Old April 4, 2020, 12:36 AM   #6
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CZ Custom shop will take a 97B and convert it to 10mm.
Sadly not a service I can make use of...
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Old April 4, 2020, 07:19 AM   #7
agtman
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CZ Custom shop will take a 97B and convert it to 10mm. They debuted it at Shot Show 2020.
What does the Custom Shop charge for that conversion on a customer's 'donor' 97B?
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Old April 5, 2020, 04:24 AM   #8
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I do not own a Glock. I'm not a Glock fanboy. If I wanted to buy a 10mm double stack,I'd buy my first Glock.
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Old April 5, 2020, 04:34 AM   #9
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10mm is really kind of a boutique round, and the demand would have to go up before CZ-UB would consider building one. As shown, the only factory CZ 10mm is that one in the video, (it lives at the Kansas City office), and I was told it was a pain to build. But if enough people wanted one, and asked for one, maybe CZ might figure a way to build one at the plant in Little Rock when it goes on line.
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Old April 5, 2020, 04:58 AM   #10
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And export them to Europe, please!!
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Old April 5, 2020, 11:16 AM   #11
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And export them to Europe, please!!

What is the demand for 10mm in Europe? Asking honesty.


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Old April 5, 2020, 12:31 PM   #12
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What is the demand for 10mm in Europe? Asking honesty.
Just me as far as I know.

AND THAT SHOULD JOLLY WELL BE ENOUGH!!

But to address your question in a maturer fashion: I really don't know.

I've seen it advertised in on place here. Brass is available so clearly there are some who reload but any shooters are probably in the likes of Switzerland, Germany, Austria and Czech etc.

Here, its 9mm, .40S&W, .45 ACP for comps and anything from .22 and up for general shooting.

But only common stuff. Niche cartridges are few and far between.

I think my .44Mag is already a bit of an oddity...
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Old April 5, 2020, 11:26 PM   #13
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Considering the existence of the old Bren Ten and more recently the Tanfoglio Witness, it's definitely possible, but clearly CZ isn't interested.

Unfortunately, 10mm Auto is too niche to obtain true mainstream popularity. It has a rather large cult following that has kept it alive, well, and relevant throughout the years, but it's never going to be a household cartridge like 9mm Luger, .45 ACP, or even its fading star of a younger brother the .40 S&W.

That being said, within its niche as a semiautomatic bear defense round, semiautomatic magnum cartridge, and a range blaster, it's great.

At one point I was really interested in the 10mm Auto cartridge, mostly because it was getting a huge push by enthusiasts in the wake of the .40 S&W getting dropped by the FBI, but lack of variety in terms of firearms chambered in it and especially the fact that the vast majority of commercial factory loaded ammo is just .40 S&W in a longer case sold at a substantially higher price made me lose interest then subsequently get off of the hype train once I realized that it wasn't really going anywhere.

Frankly, unless you plan on using it for Wilderness Defense or are really into it to the point that you're willing to get into reloading, then I would recommend just getting a .40 S&W, which offers equivalent performance when compared to most commercial factory loaded 10mm ammunition. (Most 10mm loads advertise on the box that they will launch a 180gr bullet at 1025 to 1050fps, whereas most .40 S&W loads advertise 180gr bullets at 950 to 1000fps, but that has more to do with 10mm loads being chronographed fired from 5" barrels whereas .40 S&W loads are more often chronographed fired from 4" barrels.) .40 S&W ammo is also cheaper and the firearms are extremely cheap depending on where you look due to prices on police trade-ins as well as decreased popularity.
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Old April 6, 2020, 07:46 AM   #14
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If people rate .357 Mag, I don't see why they don't rate 10mm
If people rate .45ACP, I don't see why they don't rate 10mm

Looking at similar bullet weights (158-160gr), the 10mm has favourably comparable velocities. Great capacity than .357Mag and probably that of .45ACP too. Greater bullet weight than the Mag and almost the diameter of the .45.

I've never shot it and I love it. I don't get why those who could shoot it don't. On paper it's an absolute winner.

I do reload so the potential of the 10mm appeals.
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Old April 7, 2020, 10:33 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Pond, James Pond View Post
Just me as far as I know.



AND THAT SHOULD JOLLY WELL BE ENOUGH!!



But to address your question in a maturer fashion: I really don't know.



I've seen it advertised in on place here. Brass is available so clearly there are some who reload but any shooters are probably in the likes of Switzerland, Germany, Austria and Czech etc.



Here, its 9mm, .40S&W, .45 ACP for comps and anything from .22 and up for general shooting.



But only common stuff. Niche cartridges are few and far between.



I think my .44Mag is already a bit of an oddity...


Quote:
Originally Posted by TunnelRat View Post
What is the demand for 10mm in Europe? Asking honesty.


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I’d buy one too, since I already have two Delta Elite, a S&W 1006, a 610 and a G20.
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Old April 7, 2020, 02:55 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by agtman View Post
What does the Custom Shop charge for that conversion on a customer's 'donor' 97B?
If I remember right, including the purchase of the 97B, it was somewhere around 1,100-1,200.

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Old April 9, 2020, 11:57 PM   #17
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So you could darn near buy two G-20 s for the price of a conversion.

If I did that,I'd dump the polygon rifling for a grooved rifling barrel and shoot 200 gr plus hardcast at 1200+ fps. Not quite a 41 Magnum. 41 Magnums hold 6 rounds.

Even if I'm not a Glock fan boy...I can be practical
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Old April 10, 2020, 03:07 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Forte S+W View Post
Considering the existence of the old Bren Ten and more recently the Tanfoglio Witness, it's definitely possible, but clearly CZ isn't interested.

Unfortunately, 10mm Auto is too niche to obtain true mainstream popularity. It has a rather large cult following that has kept it alive, well, and relevant throughout the years, but it's never going to be a household cartridge like 9mm Luger, .45 ACP, or even its fading star of a younger brother the .40 S&W.

That being said, within its niche as a semiautomatic bear defense round, semiautomatic magnum cartridge, and a range blaster, it's great.

At one point I was really interested in the 10mm Auto cartridge, mostly because it was getting a huge push by enthusiasts in the wake of the .40 S&W getting dropped by the FBI, but lack of variety in terms of firearms chambered in it and especially the fact that the vast majority of commercial factory loaded ammo is just .40 S&W in a longer case sold at a substantially higher price made me lose interest then subsequently get off of the hype train once I realized that it wasn't really going anywhere.

Frankly, unless you plan on using it for Wilderness Defense or are really into it to the point that you're willing to get into reloading, then I would recommend just getting a .40 S&W, which offers equivalent performance when compared to most commercial factory loaded 10mm ammunition. (Most 10mm loads advertise on the box that they will launch a 180gr bullet at 1025 to 1050fps, whereas most .40 S&W loads advertise 180gr bullets at 950 to 1000fps, but that has more to do with 10mm loads being chronographed fired from 5" barrels whereas .40 S&W loads are more often chronographed fired from 4" barrels.) .40 S&W ammo is also cheaper and the firearms are extremely cheap depending on where you look due to prices on police trade-ins as well as decreased popularity.
I don't think it's as niche as you or others think, the price for the ammo is dropping as the demand increases and increasing supply lowers production costs.

The ammo being downloaded to .40 is mostly a US manufacturer phenomenon, foreign ammo like Magtech, Fiocchi, S&B, etc. are making it way hotter, like 150 to 200 fps more. Plus, that ammo is easily found for $20 a box or less, so it's not like 10mm is breaking the bank.
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Old April 11, 2020, 01:27 PM   #19
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The ammo being downloaded to .40 is mostly a US manufacturer phenomenon, foreign ammo like Magtech, Fiocchi, S&B, etc. are making it way hotter, like 150 to 200 fps more. Plus, that ammo is easily found for $20 a box or less, so it's not like 10mm is breaking the bank.
Yeah, especially the Magtech 10mm. It surprised me how hot it was. For the price, I was expecting a watered-done .40-level junk load, like the PPU 10mm, ... and whoa, 1250fps for the Magtech.

And one of them, can't recall whether it was Fiocchi or S&B, actually increased the velocity of their 180gn 10mm FMJ 'practice' load from something like 1100-1150fps to 1250fps. Possibly that was to stay ballistically competitive with Sig's 180gn FMJ load, also spec-ed @ 1250fps.

As far as cost, yep, Magtech, Fiocchi, Sig, and S&B are pretty reasonable for 10mm factory ammo if you're not set up to reload. Plus, they're attempting to give the 10mm user 180gn ammo that's closer to real 10mm velocity than it is to .40 velocity (for the bullet-weight).

I'm not impressed with Privy's 10mm.

Last edited by agtman; April 12, 2020 at 08:04 AM.
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Old April 11, 2020, 03:10 PM   #20
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I would like to see the CZ-75 chambered in .357 Sig.
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