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Old January 20, 2020, 10:28 AM   #1
chemcal
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Do you carry a PPQ?

been thinking about this firearm in M1 for for range and possible carry. I understand "finger off trigger" for safety, but are you comfortable with this trigger platform for a CCW?
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Old January 20, 2020, 10:30 AM   #2
wild cat mccane
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If you finger is on the trigger, expect the next thing to happen is the gun will shoot.

No. I don't think a Glock is safer because it's heavier.
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Old January 20, 2020, 10:07 PM   #3
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Ditto double action revolver.
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Old January 20, 2020, 10:33 PM   #4
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A heavier trigger isn't necessarily safer, just heavier...

Despite what folks may assume about heavier triggers requiring a more deliberate, conscious effort to pull the trigger, and how that in turn makes it less likely for someone to pull it on impulse, as someone who has been in my share of dangerous/frightful situations, I can say that such isn't the case.
When the adrenaline is really pumping, suddenly everything seems like it's happening in slow-motion, it's actually because your pulse, respiration, and even your thoughts are blazing, so suddenly that long, heavy trigger isn't going to feel so long or heavy anymore. Besides, you'll have plenty of time to reconsider pulling that trigger when every second seems to last 3-5x as long.

Either way, a knee-jerk reaction is going to happen either way, and the same goes for careful asssessment/consideration. So if you're the sort of person who draws and double-taps every time something surprises you, then a heavier trigger won't help. Likewise, if you're the sort who remains reasonably calm under stress and has good trigger discipline, then a lighter trigger won't turn you into a trigger-happy maniac either.
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Old January 21, 2020, 04:48 AM   #5
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If your finger is where it shouldn't be, you'll yank a 12 lb. trigger as fast as a 5.5 lb trigger when startled. I'm very skeptical about the value of a heavier trigger for preventing what I guess I'd call an early discharge -- since in this scenario it isn't really negligent, provided the gun is drawn in response to a life-threatening event. I read one statement that you can "stage" the trigger of a DA revolver while searching your house at night, because it's heavy.... Wow. Just wow.

I do think there's some value in heavier triggers for preventing negligent discharges, though, especially when putting the gun into a holster, where there's some possibility that something *could* get into the trigger guard. More than a heavy trigger, I think the safeguard is in an exposed hammer or other passive mechanism that can prevent the trigger from being pulled, through pressure on the hammer with your thumb.

Exposed hammers (on DA guns), a "gadget" on a Glock, or a grip safety all fall into that category of passive safety device.

I own a PPQ (Q5 Match) and also a PPQ 22. I love them. But I carry a CZ P-07, partly because of that exposed hammer. And partly because I found a screaming good price on it

I don't think a PPQ is any different from a Glock, M&P, or any of the other dozens of striker guns with 5-7 lb triggers in that regard.
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Old January 21, 2020, 08:32 AM   #6
wild cat mccane
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Heavy up the weight yourself...

https://www.carl-walther.com/product...s/2836483.html
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Old January 21, 2020, 03:36 PM   #7
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If you feel more comfortable with DA/SA get a P99.
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Old January 21, 2020, 05:34 PM   #8
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Sometimes yes, and it is one of my all time favorite 9mms to shoot, although I feel it's lighter than ideal for the 1st shot. I know how excited someone can get during a mere fist fight, so I imagine a life or death fire fight must be even more exciting.

So I've got my eye out soon for a Walther P99AS with its unique decocker to lengthen the first trigger pull only. They were virtually unavailable in the U.S. several years ago when I first started looking, but are back at screamin' prices today. I remember when the P88 first came out and they were priced like Mercedes, but now we can get top shelf German quality for $500.
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Old January 21, 2020, 09:50 PM   #9
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The P99 decocker does not lengthen the first trigger pull, it decocks the striker.

The P99 is a DA/SA striker fired handgun.

If you insert the magazine, then rack the slide the gun is in "AS" mode. the striker is cocked, but the trigger is in the forward position. From here there is a long light single action trigger pull. Alternatively you can stage the "AS' mode by pulling back slightly on the trigger until you feel a click, then you have a traditional short Single Action trigger.

Pressing the decocker with the trigger in either in either the "AS" or "SA" mode decocks the striker, in the "SA" mode the trigger is returned to the forward position as well. The gun then behaves like a traditiomal DA/SA pistol, with a Double Action first shot followed by subsequent Single Action shots.

A similar trigger system is found on the Daewoo/Lionheart pistol.
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Old January 21, 2020, 09:51 PM   #10
wild cat mccane
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Interestingly, the P99 single action is lighter than the PPQ.

It's three trigger settings on the P99AS. Double action (have to decock). Cock the slide slightly and the trigger is at full length but zero resistance to half way (click) and then single action. 3rd, once you get to the click, the single action is set at basically the PPQ area.

The AS anti stress part is the 2nd. Load. Decock. Recock slightly with the slide. Full trigger travel, but only the last PPQ level of travel has any resistance.

The back of the trigger is designed to do what the Glock trigger dingus does (keeps it drop safe--nothing else).

If you aren't planning on decocking, I think the PPQ a better option. Bonus, I like the grip of the PPQ better. Though the P99 slide is sharper looking in my opinion, the P99 grip is flat on the slides. The PPQ grip has small lifts on the side that make it feel more oval--though not like oval garbage of the P320.

To feel, the more rubber PPQ back strap doesn't fit the P99 grip which has a harder plastic back strap. I bought a PPQ back strap and tried cutting it to fit my P99. It didn't look/fit right, but passed in the hand.

It's pretty cool. I've enjoyed my 4 P99s.

I also have enjoyed more PPQs. I like them equally.
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Old January 21, 2020, 11:00 PM   #11
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I have a PPQ 9mm and have carried it on occasion but I normally carry a full size 1911 or a 686. The PPQ was my first "plastic" gun I carried and made me change my mind about plastic guns. Now this might not apply to other manufactures but I must honestly say that Walther impressed. What impressed me is that the gun is fully ambidextrous, out of the box trigger is very decent and the handgun is very accurate. I bought this gun for my wife as she wanted it and the grips are ergonomically pleasing and comfortable to hold and shoot. In my opinion you won't make a bad decision should you decide to carry this handgun.
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Old January 22, 2020, 05:19 AM   #12
Carl the Floor Walker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wild cat mccane View Post
Dang that is a nice feature. I am in the camp that a heavier trigger does give a better protection layer than a light trigger. Especially under stress. . I did really like my Ruger LC9S but the trigger became too light, got rid of it. Wish I could have found a heavier spring for the Striker fired pistol, because I liked the gun.
Now I shoot nothing but DAO and never looked back. The OP IMO should do as much research as possible before relying on the internet forums to choose a light trigger.

Here is just one suggestion as food for thought.

Titled: Why I went back to DAO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IP8F_cwotM8

Last edited by Carl the Floor Walker; January 22, 2020 at 05:28 AM.
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Old January 22, 2020, 08:11 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl the Floor Walker View Post
Dang that is a nice feature. I am in the camp that a heavier trigger does give a better protection layer than a light trigger. Especially under stress. . I did really like my Ruger LC9S but the trigger became too light, got rid of it. Wish I could have found a heavier spring for the Striker fired pistol, because I liked the gun.

Now I shoot nothing but DAO and never looked back. The OP IMO should do as much research as possible before relying on the internet forums to choose a light trigger.



Here is just one suggestion as food for thought.



Titled: Why I went back to DAO



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IP8F_cwotM8
Indeed. Instead of relying on internet forums he should watch more YouTube videos. I actually do like that video (which is more about DA/SA than DAO though I agree the concept is similar), I just think the logic here is a bit hypocritical. In the end each person has to evaluate what works best for him or her.

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Last edited by TunnelRat; January 22, 2020 at 08:22 AM.
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Old January 22, 2020, 10:59 AM   #14
chemcal
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Over several years, I've gone from revolver to TDA to LEM, intermittanly trying strikers; they are great for range, however, the only one I've ever carried is a P99AS and occassionally still do. My primary carry currently is a P2000 LEM. Though not comfortable with strikers for CC, my problem is the "urge" to buy and try another gun. Gun OCD can be disturbing, but I do wonder if I'm missing something.
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Old January 22, 2020, 11:08 AM   #15
chemcal
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BTW, really great video.
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Old January 26, 2020, 09:32 PM   #16
wild cat mccane
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If you have the P99, you aren't missing out on the PPQ for a range or carry gun.

If you didn't have either, yes, you're missing out. There really isn't a better a striker fired trigger.

Really like this information heavy write up on why the PPQ is mechanically better than the VP9. Probably won't find a better comparison article anywhere on any two guns.

https://lanzerbot.wordpress.com/2015...s-vp9-trigger/

On why the P99 and PPQ triggers rock:

"It takes 4.6lbs to fire my PPQ normally, and with the slide taken off, the trigger return spring and sear return spring contributes 4.0lbs of the trigger pull. Meaning it takes only 0.6lb to break the sear.
This is the secret sauce to the PPQ’s short trigger reset – it is the only pistol where the trigger has a mechanical disadvantage towards pushing the sear lever. The result is a short travel on trigger to break & reset the sear with sacrifice to trigger weight. Other pistols need a mechanical advantage because their sears are so heavy.

Update – Walther holds a patent for this particular design (https://www.google.com/patents/US5701698)"

It's also why the P320 trigger is so far forward of a break and won't achieve the light feel of the Walther. It physically cannot.
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Old January 26, 2020, 09:48 PM   #17
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FYI -- for y'all -- I read someplace the NYPD glocks with 12 lb. triggers cut premachure & accidental dischargers by 1/2 -- so they said --
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Old January 26, 2020, 09:49 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Ricekila View Post
FYI -- for y'all -- I read someplace the NYPD glocks with 12 lb. triggers cut premachure & accidental dischargers by 1/2 -- so they said --
Imagine if they didn't carry with a round chambered. Would cut it even more. Or just eschew the pistols entirely.

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Old January 26, 2020, 10:56 PM   #19
Doc Holliday 1950
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If you are not comfortable carrying a Pistol without a safety then don't buy or carry it. Proper protocol carrying lets say a Glock means you will not accidently discharge your Pistol. If you are not completely sure of your ability to carry a Pistol without a safety, then do not buy a Glock or a Pistol that is similar. Better yet, just carry a revolver. My two carries are a G43X & a Ruger 327 in magnum revolver. It just depends how I feel about things on any day which determines which one I carry.
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Old January 27, 2020, 01:00 AM   #20
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No, the P99 AS: carried always in DA, along with my Sig P6 (new hammer spring).
Otherwise, the PPQ would be an excellent choice if DA isn't preferred. I would gladly choose the PPQ or CZ P10c, and certainly over a friend's Glock (grip angle or shape/ thickness not quite right).

Most of us don't really know how we will react under the Type of stress, in unknown situations-- which justifies pulling a handgun--for the first time.

I'm 64, just began studying Krav Maga (Israeli self-defense) a few months ago, in order to gradually learn how to react to a true 'hands on' danger when there is no gun, or no time to reach for it. Extremely complex subject, I realize....

Last edited by Ignition Override; January 27, 2020 at 01:11 AM.
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Old January 27, 2020, 08:00 AM   #21
Carl the Floor Walker
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I am trying to teach myself to not blink when something is coming toward my face like in a high stress situation. I guess I need to take a class. Also, I am trying and very unsuccessfully to not make any of the nerves in my hands, wrist, fingers etc to not naturally contract under high stress. (Heck, that even happens sometimes while driving a car around people with Cell Phones that cut in front of me. )
I read a article that stated that anyone, or most people will when scared for their life actually place their finger on the trigger of their gun in a normal reaction. I feel I would be one of those. Man, I need some help really bad.
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Old January 27, 2020, 08:59 AM   #22
chemcal
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Maybe yoy already have the help in the DAO you carry.
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Old January 27, 2020, 09:09 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by chemcal View Post
Maybe yoy already have the help in the DAO you carry.
Bingo.

Each person has to choose what works best for him or her. If you don't feel comfortable with a lighter trigger, there are options on the market that aren't that. If someone chooses differently that's on them.

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Old January 27, 2020, 09:39 AM   #24
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Quote:
I am in the camp that a heavier trigger does give a better protection layer than a light trigger.
There is a reason why the Military specifies a higher trigger pull force. It should be a balance, though.

Too heavy and you destroy the accuracy of the firearm and too light you not degrade accuracy as well as effectiveness, you become dangerous to yourself and the innocents around you.

Quote:
I am trying to teach myself to not blink when something is coming toward my face like in a high stress situation. I guess I need to take a class. Also, I am trying and very unsuccessfully to not make any of the nerves in my hands, wrist, fingers etc to not naturally contract under high stress. (Heck, that even happens sometimes while driving a car around people with Cell Phones that cut in front of me. )
I read a article that stated that anyone, or most people will when scared for their life actually place their finger on the trigger of their gun in a normal reaction. I feel I would be one of those. Man, I need some help really bad.
What is this...Kung FU??? If you walk the rice paper leaving no trace you will suddenly be a combat force to be reckoned with??

I think you are trying to get your autonomic fear response under control. If that is the case, control your breathing and you control your fear. It is not an appropriate reaction to the immediate threat but is a necessary skill for firefight development or any complex emergency situation. It is the "coffee break" to take over from the lizard brain and work a complex problem under extreme stress.

Just remember...

In combat the lizard brain takes over and you will do exactly what you trained yourself to do. That is appropriate for the immediate threat which is most applicable to CCW situations once the decision to shoot has been made.

Muscle memory takes over.

Train correctly each time you shoot and train all the way through follow up as well as expanding your visual scan once the target is down. Go from the holster to the re-holster including magazine drills both emergency and tactical reloads.

Slow is smooth and smooth is fast. Aim small and miss small.

It is beyond the scope of this thread to teach a combat pistol course but recognize this post as an attempt to help you prevent wasting time, money, and effort.
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Old January 31, 2020, 09:38 AM   #25
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P99as is my carry. Haven't yet found a negative in the system.
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