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Old April 25, 2017, 03:04 PM   #1
Pond, James Pond
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Does it matter if the front sight moves...

.. as long as it's on target?

Or...

....should the sights be on target throughout the trigger pull?

I ask this as I was doing some dry-firing with my snub in DA.

I was doing slow trigger pulls and then I did some "cylinder dumps" at an unlucky item of kitchen paraphenalia when I noticed that while the sights were moving quite a bit as I was pulling the trigger fast, yet the front sight was still on the target when the trigger broke.
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Old April 25, 2017, 03:44 PM   #2
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I get basically the same thing with my revolvers. Somehow the front sight always gets back to dead center just as the trigger breaks, apparently regardless of how fast I pull the trigger. This has led to some amazing (for me) five- and six-shot groups with my GP-100 with full power .357 mag loads, including one at 10 yards that was .41 inches in about 3 seconds from low ready. I'm usually happy if I get them all in the space a little bigger than a soft ball when I'm going as fast as I can.

This does not seem to be the case with all of my semis, however. Not a clue why this works with my revolvers.

I never mentioned the phenomenon to anyone, as I thought I'd get a bunch of people telling me that I was doing something wrong, and at this point I have no desire to change anything about how I shoot revolvers.
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Old April 25, 2017, 10:52 PM   #3
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The sight alignment should be perfect. Dead center and dead level. The sight picture should be where ever you like to zero, but should be the same every time.

Sight alignment is more important than sight picture.

If your alignment is perfect and you break the sear 3" out at 4:00 you will hit the target 3" out at 4:00.
But if your front sight shows it's 3" out at 4:00 but your alignment if off you shoot wild and may miss the whole target.

Remember that the line of sight should be in parallel to the bore line, if the gun is zeroed. If the front and rear sights are out of alignment the bore line is pointing somewhere else.

It matters not at all that your eye is looking at the target if the bore is "looking' somewhere else.
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Old April 26, 2017, 08:19 AM   #4
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If the sights are on target when the trigger breaks, and the bullet hits the target where you intended, what else is required?
You done it.
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Old April 26, 2017, 09:11 AM   #5
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What Willikers said.
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Old April 26, 2017, 01:07 PM   #6
Pond, James Pond
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Quote:
If the sights are on target when the trigger breaks, and the bullet hits the target where you intended, what else is required?
Always nice to read. Now let's see if it translates with live rounds at the range.
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Old April 26, 2017, 01:38 PM   #7
T. O'Heir
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"...sights were moving quite a bit as I was pulling the trigger fast..." Sights will do that. You cannot hold a pound or more perfectly still on the end of your arm anyway. Happens with a rifle too. Through a scope you can see your heart beating.
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Old April 28, 2017, 11:34 PM   #8
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I don't have anything to back it up, but I've developed the suspicion that slow (exaggeratedly slow) trigger pulls are not a useful thing to do. When coaching, I've found that shooters can produce better groupings with side arms when the trigger is not over cautiously crept back. While actuating the trigger too fast is well known to be bad- jerking- not everyone appreciates that they can be functioned too slow as well. I think that just about every double action side arm has a "sweet speed" area.
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Old April 29, 2017, 11:41 AM   #9
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I was taught that once you start to pull the trigger it should break between 3 and 5 seconds. It should surprise you when it goes off.
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Old April 29, 2017, 09:18 PM   #10
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Shootist- That wouldn't work well at all for some folks. A recurring stage of our qualifications are 3 Shots in 6 Seconds, 4 Shots in 7 Seconds, etc. What type of shooting drills or discipline uses that method?
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Old April 30, 2017, 01:29 PM   #11
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Quote:
10-96 Shootist- That wouldn't work well at all for some folks. A recurring stage of our qualifications are 3 Shots in 6 Seconds, 4 Shots in 7 Seconds, etc. What type of shooting drills or discipline uses that method?
No, that time consuming process doesn't work in speed or timed events.
It is how we teach new shooters to control the trigger. As you progress the trigger is pulled faster but the process remains a controlled pull and not a jerk on the trigger.

It does work in metallic silhouette competition but there is lots of time to hit each target.
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Old April 30, 2017, 05:40 PM   #12
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Quote:
It does work in metallic silhouette
Now that makes sense. I've always wanted to give that a try, but nobody seems to do metallic silhouette around my area. Maybe some day...
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Old May 24, 2020, 07:11 PM   #13
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Ideally you want no sight movement. Realistically thats not happening.
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Old May 24, 2020, 09:05 PM   #14
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When I shot match, we were taught that your arm moves when you put a pistol or a rifle hanging out there, and there is no way to hold it still. You learn the rhythm of your heartbeat and learn the pattern of movement, and you learn to time your triigger pull so that the shot breaks at the right time.
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Old May 25, 2020, 01:27 PM   #15
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A shooter should accept the wobble sight picture of the sights. Other than heartbeat pulse: Over time...with practice, the wobble radius will get smaller.

You don't want to be surprised when the sear breaks and the gun goes off. You'll want a deliberate trigger pull, that should not surprise you when the gun will fire.
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Old May 25, 2020, 06:33 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erno86 View Post
A shooter should accept the wobble sight picture of the sights. Other than heartbeat pulse: Over time...with practice, the wobble radius will get smaller.

You don't want to be surprised when the sear breaks and the gun goes off. You'll want a deliberate trigger pull, that should not surprise you when the gun will fire.
Agreed. I had to learn to not apply bench rest rifle technique to action pistol.
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Old May 26, 2020, 01:32 PM   #17
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A benchrest shooter can try to avoid heartbeat pulse shake, by instituting a quarter inch space between the buttstock and the shooters shoulder pocket with a heavy benchrest rifle. And the only physical contact with the rifle is the shooter's trigger finger.
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Old May 26, 2020, 09:13 PM   #18
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Anyone else notice that this thread was inactive for 3 years, before it was reopened to essentially say what had already been said?
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Old May 27, 2020, 11:21 AM   #19
Bart B.
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Yes, I noticed.

Also noticed someone stated the handgun's line of sight must be parallel and aligned with the bore axis or line of fire. If so, shots will strike way above point of aim on target.
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