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Old April 22, 2015, 04:40 PM   #26
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I get to blame you??!! Crap, you have some big guns!

Makes sense in a way, ironic maybe.

I think of the originals a dinosaurs, and so the second evolution of magnum autos would be Ice Age Mammals. (also largely extinct)
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Old April 22, 2015, 05:37 PM   #27
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The thing to remember with semi-autos is that the larger the caliber, the larger the grip. I have fired the Desert Eagle in .44 Mag and .50 AE. My hands are of pretty average size and the grip did not feel great. The weight of these guns is also a big issue. While these hand cannons are a lot of fun, they have limited practicality. I can see these being used for hunting, hunting back ups, or hiking protection from wild animals, but what would a semi-auto do that a revolver could not? Most of these hand cannons don't hold much more than a large wheel gun. While recoil is usually softer due to gas operated systems, there is still significant recoil and follow up shots will not be very fast with either. Another issue is with weight. Semi-auto hand cannons may actually be heavier due to the additional gas-operated systems. Finally, revolvers should be more reliable due to a simpler mechanism. When it comes to poop hits the fan situations, reliability should be a huger consideration.

With that all said and done, I would not mind having a Desert Eagle as a range toy, but they are expensive to feed.
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Old April 22, 2015, 06:42 PM   #28
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I bought a .44 AutoMag a couple of years ago to replace the one I’d foolishly sold in the early ‘80s. Judging by the 41 rounds in the original box of CDM ammo and the condition of the gun, it had been fired 9 times, then put away.

I did the polish/deburr job that was standard on AutoMags back in the day and worked up some loads that would cycle the gun without putting more stress than necessary on it. After all, if something breaks, there are no parts to be had at any price!

The 180 gr load shown here was a tad light and wouldn’t push the bolt back far enough to pick up the next round every time. 32.0 gr of WW296 with the same bullet gave me 1567 fps and a SD of 7.6.


A 265 gr load with 22.0 gr of WW296 was also too light and probably produced no more than 1150 fps, if that.
The best all-around load is a Nosler 240 gr JHP over 24.5 gr of WW296. I get 1357 fps and a SD of 11. I get 100% functioning and it’s very comfortable to shoot. An equivalent load in my M29 would have me zipping the gun into its case and quitting after a few cylinder-fulls. With the AutoMag, I can shoot until I run out of ammo and still be wearing a smile.
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Old April 23, 2015, 12:05 AM   #29
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Please don't make this about how they are too big, too heavy, to expensive, or any of that. Not interested in how they don't fit anyone's personal standards, want to talk about the guns themselves, and shooter's personal experiences with them.


Quote:
I can see these being used for..... but what would a semi-auto do that a revolver could not?
One of the things for me that the semi auto does, is have a different feel to the grip than a revolver. The shape, and the way the recoil is transmitted to my hand. I happen to like it better, at certain recoil levels. They just feel different to shoot, and in many ways feel better to me.

And that, essentially is the point. A repeater, firing magnum power class ammo, that is different from a revolver.

It's a point missed by a lot of people. The ones who focus on comparisons with revolvers, with duty class semi autos for personal defense, etc.

Despite Hollywood and video game fantasies they are not good combat pieces,, and other than the Coonan and the Grizzly, (based on the 1911 style) they were never built to be.

They are heavy, absolutely. They need to be.

Quote:
While recoil is usually softer due to gas operated systems, there is still significant recoil and follow up shots will not be very fast with either.
There is only one gas operated magnum semi in production, the Desert Eagle. The Wildey is gas operated, and has an easily adjustable gas system, which the Desert Eagle does not. Nobody seems to be at Wildey anymore, we consider them out of production now, although there website is still up, no one seem to answer the phone...

How fast a follow up shot do you need? Remember the big mags are not meant to be combat guns. I did take a couple to a bowling pin shoot once. I'm not much of a competitor, out of a couple dozen shooters, I didn't even place 3rd.
MY Time to clear 5 pins with a stock .44 Auto Mag: 5.36sec. 5 shots, 5 hits.

MY Time to clear 5 pins with a stock .357 Mag Desert Eagle: 4.37sec. 9 shots, "enough" hits (one pin fell end on, took a few shots to clear it off the table )

is that fast enough of a follow up shot?
I'm absolutely certain I couldn't shoot that fast, that accurately with any revolver I know in the same power class. But that's just me, I'm not very fast, really. Not totally slow, either, some folks think I'm kind of half fast....
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Old April 23, 2015, 01:13 AM   #30
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While these dinosaurs may not roam anymore and may spend most of their days in safes, I don't think interest in them is extinct at all. While I don't consider 10mm to be remotely in the 'magnum' class, still, it's a member of the 'significantly more powerful than average' auto pistol club--and there's considerable interest. Agreed, that interest is tiny compared to the interest of the masses in the next 9x19, but that interest is intense and persistent.

Glock just began producing its 3rd 10mm auto--a longslide--and while it is even more hideous than anything it has produced to date, I doubt they built it just because they could. The caliber has a very loyal, if limited, following.

Now, my impression is that many (if not most) 10mm shooters seem to believe the round is capable of taking out enemy armor if only it is loaded far enough beyond max book. It seems many handloaders desperately want the cartridge to live up to its legend and produce more than the little feller is up to. I take this to mean more is better, which AFAIK, has always been the case.

For many, myself included, there's no desire to shoot 500 SW Magnum and no desire to shoot revolvers. There's a strong desire for an automatic in a respectably powerful caliber--and 10mm isn't it. I happen to think 10mm is just about 'the best' auto pistol cartridge we have available, all around (punch, capacity etc), but it's a stretch to compare it to 357, 41 or 44 IMO--at least if you ever want to reload the spent brass again.

Folks will certainly always ask 'why' and in one way that question is a good one to ask. But 'more powerful' and 'more compact' have been the marching orders for the entire history of personal weapons, I think--it sure isn't going to stop with the revolver. At some point though, one has to 'call it' and make the transition from handheld to shoulder-fired, with mass being the only thing that can stall that transition. In a world where the short-barrel rifle had more room to develop, this transition would be a smooth one in terms of technology and personal choice. Right now, the government gets in the way I think.

I'm doing my part to keep the dinosaurs roaming--the overweight, oversized and overpowered impractical novelty is in the mail!!!
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Old April 23, 2015, 01:28 AM   #31
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The reality is that an Auto Mag is no more expensive to shoot then any magnum. After I cut down a few hundred cases I got good at it. Once I got to 500 I figured that I had enough to feed my .44 Auto Mag.

I bought mine in the eighties when they were less expensive to purchase. I just happened to be in an old gun shop and it called my name. Because I had bought several guns before from this guy he let me put money down on it over several months. I would come in with my recipt and another hundred dollars and he woiuld put the two recipts together and eventually I got it payed off. I had ammutition loaded for it months before I was able to bring it home.

I shoot it on occasion and occasionally carry it for CCW when I feel that where I am going might require artillery.

As you know 44 AMP anyone that says that they are to expensive to feed is not a reloader so what would they know? They sure are fun to shoot and when I feel like going to an indoor shooting range mine sure does draw attention especially from those that will never measure up.

The only problem is how shooting one has contributed to my arthritus....

Bongo Boy.....If you ever hunt some thick brush you will realize why some of us hunt with a five pound handgun. I have posted photos of my IJ/Uberti cattleman. Some places I hunt her 18 ninch barrel is to long and I have no need for a stock. Years ago I did use my .44 Auto Mag but quite frankly she is just worth to much to take hunting any more so I purchased a Uberti 1847 that I am not as particular about for that duty.

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Old April 23, 2015, 03:07 AM   #32
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A new entry into the magnum auto pistol arena is the .22 Tuason Craig Micro-Mag (22TCM).
A fun, accurate and surprisingly potent little cartridge.
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Old April 23, 2015, 04:51 AM   #33
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Microgunner.....that aint an entry into this party.
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Old April 23, 2015, 05:47 AM   #34
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however I suppose the KelTek PMR-30 might qualify if the Automag 2 belongs in the group... I don't personally feel they belong, as they are not centerfires... however they are "technically" a magnum auto pistol... & my Automag 2 does hang out with it's bigger brothers quite often... Automags 2,3,4, & 5



then I suppose if the 30 Carbine Automag 3 belongs, then so does the Coonan 357's...

see there are still a few dino's being born yet today

BTW... I wish you'd quit posting threads like this... I still need to add an original Auto Mag 1 to my collection... & if you keep the interest up, it'll keep the prices up, & keep that AM1 from getting hung on my rack above my 2
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Old April 23, 2015, 07:01 AM   #35
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How do those Automags work? They look like they have a fixed barrel. Surely they are not blowback guns are they?
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Old April 23, 2015, 07:23 AM   #36
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I assume you are talking about the original Auto Mag 1's in 44 Auto Mag ???

I think they have rotary bolts similar to the Desert Eagles, but I'm sure some owners are better qualified to answer that question... to me, outwardly they look like the Ruger Government target model 22's... or since these likely came 1st ??? maybe the Rugers look like Auto Mag 1's ???

the later AMT versions function / look more like 1911 clones
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Old April 23, 2015, 09:12 AM   #37
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Wow, this thread has more stainless steel than my wife's dream kitchen....
Nice looking pistols, although whenever people put the terms "magnum" and "pistol" together, my wrist starts pre-emptively hurting like there's a thunderstorm on the horizon. It's been educational that that's not always the case.
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Old April 23, 2015, 09:16 AM   #38
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I have an old (late 90s IIRC) Mark VII in 50AE. I bought it purely for the novelty and at the time, not many bigger handguns were to be had, still have it but not sure why since I havnt shot it in years. I do remember it being a fun gun to shoot, and its certainly a conversation starter.

Ive wanted a Wildey since Charles Bronson...lol

Just can't justify the cost for something ill likely never use.
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Old April 23, 2015, 11:02 AM   #39
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Quote:
to me, outwardly they look like the Ruger Government target model 22's... or since these likely came 1st ??? maybe the Rugers look like Auto Mag 1's ???
Ruger's design goes back to 1949, and AMT actually copied it for their Lightning pistols.
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Old April 23, 2015, 11:09 AM   #40
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The little 'charging handles' are pretty cool. Nothing new for the powder-puff IPSC race guns, but I'm not accustomed to seeing them outside of the action games. Sweet. Thompson-esque. About the only thing that might be cooler than that would be a 3-finger slide release like the bolt release on the Lhati anti-tank rifle. As a teenager I thought that was about the coolest thing I'd ever seen:



Quote:
Just can't justify the cost for something ill likely never use.
I find an unlimited supply of justification whenever it's needed, but as I get closer to that Final Pilgrimage, "you only live once" has become a much more meaningful, widely-applicable and less poetic rationale.

BTW, if I could print that tight a group at 15 yds I'd be extremely pleased. Hell, I'd be pleased if I could do it at 25 from a bag. Nice..
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Old April 23, 2015, 01:20 PM   #41
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hartcreek, the OP included the. 22WMR in his listing, the center fire 22TCM way outclasses the 22WMR in velocity and energy.
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Old April 23, 2015, 05:53 PM   #42
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Quote:
How do those Automags work? They look like they have a fixed barrel. Surely they are not blowback guns are they?
I'll take this one..Magnum Wheel chime in if I get something wrong about yours..

The original Auto Mag Pistol (note: two words, not one), is recoil operated. In uses a multiple lug bolt (usually compared to the M16 bolt - because people know what that looks like).

The bolt is cammed by a pin near the rear of the action, and assisted by a torsion spring inside the cocking piece.

Bolt and barrel assembly, locked together, recoil straight back about a half inch (0.47" on the gun I just checked. At this point, the barrel stops, the bolt is unlocked, and is struck by the accelerator, giving it an additional rearward thrust. It considered to be a short recoil action.

Auto Mag II (.22WMR) is a retarded blowback action. (if that's not PC its a delayed blowback action..)

Auto Mags III, IV, and V are variations of the Browning Tilt barrel lockup system.

The LAR Grizzly and the Coonan are the same, tilt barrel lockup.

The Desert Eagle is gas operated. Fixed barrel. Multiple lug rotating bolt. Gas port is right ahead of the chamber. Gas runs in a channel in the barrel assy, underneath the bore, almost to the muzzle, where it turns 180 and pushes the piston to operate the slide.

The Wildey is gas operated, using a different approach. Gas is ported from the barrel a bit ahead of the chamber, and then directed to the underbarrel piston through the (hand adjustable) nut.
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Old April 23, 2015, 06:11 PM   #43
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Quote:
or since these likely came 1st ??? maybe the Rugers look like Auto Mag 1's ???

Ruger's design goes back to 1949, and AMT actually copied it for their Lightning pistols
The AMT Lightning was used to make the "Baby Auto Mag" they sold after the Sudden Impact movie. Take an AMT copy of a Ruger .22, give it a vent rib and change the bolt ears to one that are exact copies (scaled down) of the distinctive cocking piece ears of the Auto Mag, and there you go! .22lr "baby auto mag" $500 please! I thought it was too much then. Considering the stupidly high asking price for them today, probably should have got one...

As to what the magnum autos are, I did allow the .22WMR, so if the cartridge name says Magnum, or the gun name says magnum, I'll allow it. I allow the .30 carbine (Automag III).

Micro Mag? Better explain that one...
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Old April 23, 2015, 06:32 PM   #44
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My Auto Mags. Two .44s and a .357. The longer barrels are even more rare than the standard 6.5".
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Old April 23, 2015, 06:51 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 44 AMP
Micro Mag? Better explain that one...

I'll see if I can get Fred Craig to give you a call.
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Old April 23, 2015, 06:53 PM   #46
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Another comparison, that's a 10" Contender
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Old April 23, 2015, 08:31 PM   #47
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For those with spare cash collecting dust, it may be worth noting that GoneBroker currently has two different .50AE Automag V pistols for sale and also has two different auctions for extra .50AE magazines.

Perhaps also worth noting is that one seller is offering bare, stripped Automag IV .45 Win Mag frames for $50 each and he has a number of them.
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Old April 23, 2015, 10:00 PM   #48
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easy field strip!
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Old April 24, 2015, 01:57 AM   #49
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The posted target reminded me of something that had slipped my mind, and that is the accuracy of the Auto Mag. Generally its very good. Like pre-internet bolt action rifle good.

I was never a world class shot, but I have gotten 5 shot 1in groups at 25yds with the my .44 Auto Mag (not often but I have done it ).

I can manage a 2-2.5" group with a good target sighted 1911A1 (overlapping holes) so something that can do half that is kind of impressive. And something that can do that with .44Mag power is very impressive.

Not all guns and loads are that good, of course, but the fact that the Auto Mag, Desert Eagle, and Wildey barrels remain in the same plane as the sights all the time, seems to give them an edge over tilt barrel systems. Generally...or so I think.

Heard from a friend today, he's found a fellow with an Automag IV .45Winmag. Looks like we are going to get together sometime in the next 2-3 weeks (hopefully) for a shoot and compare session. I'm looking forward to getting some hands on experience with that gun. Will do up a range report (hopefully with a pic or 2).
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Old April 24, 2015, 07:44 AM   #50
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didn't want to rip off this picture, so I'll show a link... never seen one before, but here is a picture & discussion of the 44 Magmatic...

http://singleactions.proboards.com/t...20/44-magmatic

BTW... BONGO... those are B Square slide pull knobs... & they help greatly, because of the stiff springs & sharp slide serrations
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