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Old March 21, 2020, 07:10 PM   #1
Oldjarhead
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Pocket size 9mm "1911" in design pistols

Not too long ago I started carrying a new Dan Wesson 1911 .45 acp CCO. Commander frame, with an Officer size grip. With the Summer months coming, and one hundred plus temperatures, in central Texas, I feel the need for a alternate pocket size 9mm. I want to pocket carry with the same type of platform , a 1911 style pistol. The ones I have read about, are Kimber Micro 9, Sig P 938, and the Springfield 911. Can any owners of these three pistols, share your experience with them, and why, or why not would you recommend them? Thanks.
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Old March 21, 2020, 07:40 PM   #2
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I have had the Sig Sauer P 238 380 ACP. It is easy to shoot, and handles quite well. It conceals very easily. I have shot the Kimber Micro and Colt Mustang, which both operate similarly. The Kimber seems most refined.

I have a Sig Sauer P938 9 mm. It is quite snappy and the trigger is not that good. I definitely find my accuracy to be lower with it, than the 380 ACP counterpart. I have an easier time shooting a S&W Shield, Glock 43 or Sig Sauer P365.

I have moved away from carrying a gun with an external safety for the past few years. Capacity is nowhere near the capacity of a Springfield Hellcat, Glock 43x or Sig Sauer P365.


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Old March 21, 2020, 08:40 PM   #3
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I have a Colt Mustang and never did like carrying it in the pocket. I always ended up carrying IWB. It also had a habit of the safety being disengaged even though it was carried in a pocket holster so be sure what ever you choose make sure the safety has a positive position. I now carry my G43 IWB most times during the summer.
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Old March 21, 2020, 08:48 PM   #4
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I have 3000 rounds through my P938.
First 1000 were perfect, but a few niggles, since.
The problems have been fixable, and fixed.
There's a bit of a learning curve, as it's not a miniature 1911, being closer to some Star pistols, and the Colt Mustang.
It's very accurate, easy to shoot, but maybe more of a "carry a lot and shoot a little" gun, than a compact service pistol.
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Old March 21, 2020, 10:16 PM   #5
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I pocket carry my p938, in a pocket holster every day. I shoot it better than my p365. I chose the BRG (black rubber grips) version and even without any pinky finger on the grip it stays firm in my hand upon recoil. Very reliable, l highly recomend it to a 1911 fan.
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Old March 21, 2020, 10:37 PM   #6
Aguila Blanca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldjarhead
I feel the need for a alternate pocket size 9mm. I want to pocket carry with the same type of platform , a 1911 style pistol. The ones I have read about, are Kimber Micro 9, Sig P 938, and the Springfield 911. Can any owners of these three pistols, share your experience with them, and why, or why not would you recommend them? Thanks.
All three are slightly expanded (from .380 ACP to 9mm) clones of the Colt Mustang .380, which in turn was a clone of an earlier Spanish (Star?) pistol. Despite the efforts of all three makers to create the impression that these are pocket size 1911s, they are NOT. The locations of the fire controls is similar, but they have a swinging trigger rather than a 1911 sliding trigger, and the internals are quite different.

If you're really after a small 1911, I'd suggest looking at the Springfield EMP.
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Old March 21, 2020, 10:52 PM   #7
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I have Sig 938 Legion that is my most carried handgun, it came with three 7 rnd mags but it is a challenge for the pistol to operate reliably with a 7 rnd mag.
I found the pistol to shoot 5" high at 15 yrds with 124gr bullets, the gun shop swapped out the rear sight with a taller one. The POA and POI are right on with 124gr bullets at 15yds, which I prefer.
I do wish the grip frame on the 938 Legion was a 1/8" longer and so with the mags, but it is what it is
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Old March 22, 2020, 04:11 AM   #8
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None of the single action micro pistols are good for the pocket with their cocked and locked method of carry, a holster is needed for safe carry. I have the Sig and Kimber micros in 9 and 380 all four are great shooting pistols and excellent for concealed carry, I have fired quite a number of rounds in each and found them to be quite reliable. The pistols are similar in construction and feel so it is up to the individual which they prefer, my favorite is the Sig 938 but the Kimber looks more like a 1911.
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Old March 23, 2020, 07:49 AM   #9
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@Joneb, a taller rear sight will make the gun shoot higher, not lower. To lower the POI you would either need a lower rear sight or a taller front sight.
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Old March 23, 2020, 08:51 AM   #10
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I have a Sig P238 and Kimber Micro Carry. Sig any day. It feeds better and is far easier to shoot. No laser grips available for that model.

The Micro Carry (380) is my wife's and has CT laser grips. She likes it and is good with it. She shoots over 500 rounds practice a year.

I have a micro 9 with CT laser grips. Lots of problems when it was new. I straightened them all out and love the gun. I carry it a lot. Ankle holster, Pocket holster, or a slide holster on my belt and long flannel shirt.

The P238 or Kimber micro carry fits in my back pocket with a pocket holster. The Kimber Micro 9 sticks out too much.

Never had a problem with the safety coming off on any of them.

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Old March 23, 2020, 10:58 AM   #11
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The only one I’m familiar with is the one I own, the 938. I shoot it quite well and it always felt like a quality piece. The fit and finish is very good. Easy to manipulate for such a small handgun. Also have the 238 which I acquired first. What I can say about the 938 ditto for the 238.
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Old April 1, 2020, 08:45 AM   #12
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I can only comment with any experience on the Sig P238. My wife and I both carry them. Accurate, dependable and can be found in reasonable prices ranges now. I paid $440 for each of mine at Bud's.
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Old April 1, 2020, 10:47 AM   #13
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I've got a Sig 938.
I wanted a little more than a .380 could deliver.

Decent - but too heavy for pocket carry - sub compact.

I like that it has similar 1911-like features.
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Old April 3, 2020, 02:41 PM   #14
JimCunn
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I pocket carry an 8+1 Micro 9. Comfortable and trigger is good.
The safety will disengage every few weeks, so be careful when carrying it cocked and locked.
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Old April 3, 2020, 04:16 PM   #15
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My wife bought a P238 for her carry pistol. A year or so later, she got me one so I would leave hers alone.

Very nice pistol, surprisingly accurate, with good sights, and has been very reliable. If you want a single action pocket pistol, definitely have a look at the little Sig. In slow fire, I can keep my shots on the head of a half-sized silhouette at 25 yards.

Folks seem to be a bit less enthusiastic about the 938 than the 238, but I don't have any first-hand experience with the 938.
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Old April 3, 2020, 04:28 PM   #16
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I own the Springfield 911. Great little pistol, lighter than the others you mentioned and the magazines are 50% cheaper. Mine does not like shooting steel case ammo, had a lot of malfunctions and light strikes with it, but once I switched to brass cases it shot all rounds without failure and still does. I've shot about a 1000 rounds through it and the only problems I had was with the steel case ammo.

The sights are very easy to see during the day and at night they glow so bright they could give away your position if you were in stealth mode. Really easy to shoot and control for such a small pistol. I bought this pistol because I like to walk in the evenings and needed a gun that would not pull my warmups down since they have an elastic waistband. By the way the 911 magazines can be used on a Kimber micro or the sig.
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Old April 4, 2020, 04:36 PM   #17
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I like my P938 pistol. Awesome little gun. However, EDC is Para Ordnance Expert Carry .45. VERY nice, at least for me.

Pic of target practice with Para:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Target Practice_2-22-20-Slow aim-fire.JPG (162.6 KB, 24 views)
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Old April 5, 2020, 02:29 PM   #18
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Oldjarhead
A pocket style 1911 , would you try a appendix carry with a Colt Defender in a 45 instead of a 9, I have the Colt New Agent and it's my favorite carry , barrel is 3" .
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Old April 5, 2020, 06:36 PM   #19
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cw308's comment started me down the rabbit hole of dimensions. As I commented earlier in this thread, both the Springfield 911 9mm and the Sig P938 are expanded variants of the Colt Mustang clones, and the Colt Mustang itself is a clone of an earlier Spanish pistol. The 911 and the P938 are sort of "1911-ish" in their placement of the operating controls, but the resemblance ends there. That got me wondering how much of a size advantage do those guns actually provide over small models of "real" 1911s. So I looked.

The 911 and the P938 both have 3" barrels and are 5.9" in length. The 911 is listed by SA at 5.9" high, the P938 is listed by Sig as 4.3" tall. I can't explain that difference, as the guns appear to be pretty much the same. Maybe on includes sights in the height, the other is measure to the top of the slide? Dunno.

So then I went into the archives of the M1911.org on-line magazine and dredged up their review of the original SA EMP. The article provides a dimension comparison of the EMP against a Colt Defender and a Para-Ordnance Slim Hawg (which is even smaller than the Defender). Here's the chart (reproduced by permission):



They are all 3" barrels. The "real" 1911s are a tad higher, which probably isn't a significant factor in concealment. The "real" 1911s are somewhat longer, and that's probably mostly in the beavertail grip safety. The thickness seems to be the same for all of them. If you were comfortable bobbing the beavertail, the length could be reduced by shortening the grip safety.

For someone who wants a 1911-like pistol, I don't see much reason to buy a 911 or a P938 when there are any number of "real" 1911s that are not much larger.
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Old April 5, 2020, 07:13 PM   #20
RickB
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My carry gun used to be a "compact" 1911, with 3.5" barrel and 6+1 capacity, in .45 ACP.
It also weighed about 35 ounces when fully loaded.
My P938 holds 7+1 in a package that is literally half the size and weight.
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Old April 5, 2020, 09:23 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickB
My P938 holds 7+1 in a package that is literally half the size and weight.
Really?

You're talking about a Colt Officers ACP or clone equivalent. My Officers ACP is 7-1/4" long (measured from the beavertail to the muzzle) and 5-1/16" high (including the sights). So you somehow came up with a P938 that's 3-5/8" long and 2-1/2" high? Where is that on the Sig Sauer web site?

(Sorry, Rick, but you said "literally," not me.)
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Old April 6, 2020, 08:39 PM   #22
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I didn't say you can't find a lighter, more compact .45 than mine, but it is HUGE compared to the SIG.
Obviously, a gun with a 3" barrel is not half as long as one with a 3.5" barrel, but I'm talking about the overall . . . mass, let's say. Surface area? Cubic inches. A 12" pizza is twice as big as a 9" pizza.
A compact 1911 is still a really big, heavy gun, while the SIG disappears in my hand (my hand might be bigger than yours), and hardly pulls my pants down in a pocket.
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Old April 8, 2020, 04:00 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca View Post
cw308's comment started me down the rabbit hole of dimensions. As I commented earlier in this thread, both the Springfield 911 9mm and the Sig P938 are expanded variants of the Colt Mustang clones, and the Colt Mustang itself is a clone of an earlier Spanish pistol. The 911 and the P938 are sort of "1911-ish" in their placement of the operating controls, but the resemblance ends there. That got me wondering how much of a size advantage do those guns actually provide over small models of "real" 1911s. So I looked.

The 911 and the P938 both have 3" barrels and are 5.9" in length. The 911 is listed by SA at 5.9" high, the P938 is listed by Sig as 4.3" tall. I can't explain that difference, as the guns appear to be pretty much the same. Maybe on includes sights in the height, the other is measure to the top of the slide? Dunno.

So then I went into the archives of the M1911.org on-line magazine and dredged up their review of the original SA EMP. The article provides a dimension comparison of the EMP against a Colt Defender and a Para-Ordnance Slim Hawg (which is even smaller than the Defender). Here's the chart (reproduced by permission):



They are all 3" barrels. The "real" 1911s are a tad higher, which probably isn't a significant factor in concealment. The "real" 1911s are somewhat longer, and that's probably mostly in the beavertail grip safety. The thickness seems to be the same for all of them. If you were comfortable bobbing the beavertail, the length could be reduced by shortening the grip safety.

For someone who wants a 1911-like pistol, I don't see much reason to buy a 911 or a P938 when there are any number of "real" 1911s that are not much larger.
I disagree. I use the 911 for specific purposes not as my primary conceal firearm. When I wear attire without belts like my exercise clothing that have elastic waist bands the weight of the firearms becomes a critical issue at least for me. The lightest firearm you have listed in your chart is 23 oz. and the 911 in 9mm cal is 15 oz. and in the .380 it is 12 oz. A half pound difference in a firearm in this situation is the difference between having to constantly pull your pants or shorts up constantly like those idiots that wear their pants right above the knees.
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Old April 9, 2020, 12:10 PM   #24
cw308
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The proper carry is more of the problem , they do make a waist band carry , it's very concealable and comfortable for every size pistol.
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Old April 9, 2020, 01:17 PM   #25
wild cat mccane
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Have two Sig P938 SAS models.

I'm sorry, but the Sig 380s and 9mm 1911s triggers are nothing amazing. The LCP gen 2 is no heavier.
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