The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > The Smithy

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old November 27, 2014, 10:31 PM   #1
Blindstitch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 14, 2013
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Posts: 2,550
Baking bluing.

My friend wants to reblue a shotgun that was put back in the case wet and doesn't look great now. Not trying to make it into a beauty but as good as he can get it.

He's 65 and was telling me when he was younger most likely a teenager he bought some bluing didn't say how it was applied but it was put on the shotgun and baked on in an oven.

Is there a bluing product that exists now that sounds like that.
Blindstitch is offline  
Old November 28, 2014, 12:21 PM   #2
Rottweiler
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 30, 2001
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 391
Closest thing I can think of would be Brownell's hot water bluing.

You apply a cold bluing like solution and then boil the parts, then remove and brush them with a soft wire brush. Repeat the process several times to get the dark blue finish you want/need. Then a dunk in the water displacing oil.

I don't think an oven would work the same. The parts need to stay wet to blue then flash dry in the air before brushing. Also the boiling water has much better temperature control than an oven.


There might have been a product that did bluing in an oven at one time but I don't know of any today.
__________________
Texas - envied by lesser states since 1845
Rottweiler is offline  
Old November 28, 2014, 12:52 PM   #3
Old Stony
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 31, 2013
Location: East Texas
Posts: 1,671
Some of the old time bluing solutions told you to heat the surface to open up the pores of the metal before you applied the solution, but I don't know of anything like that today. A lot of guys used something like a hair dryer to heat the surface.
Old Stony is offline  
Old November 29, 2014, 02:47 PM   #4
T. O'Heir
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 11,931
Nope. Your buddy needs to start with 0000 steel wool and some light oil to get the rust off. Then think about cold bluing. None of which gives much in the way of protection.
Some of the old time bluing solutions were sold by snake oil salesmen too. Think hazmat as well.
__________________
Spelling and grammar count!
T. O'Heir is offline  
Old November 30, 2014, 12:28 PM   #5
Blindstitch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 14, 2013
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Posts: 2,550
My buddy is well skilled with 0000 steel wool. I told him I never heard of a product like he explained using forever ago.

To me I just chalk this up to a stupid brother. My friend and his brother were deer hunting last year and I don't know why my friends brother decided it was smart to put away his gun wet and not check on it for 9 months but he did.

It's probably not far away from getting out bake on spray paint and turning it into an ugly duck blind gun.
Blindstitch is offline  
Old November 30, 2014, 03:50 PM   #6
Dixie Gunsmithing
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: April 27, 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,923
I have heard of people heating guns when applying cold blue, but I doubt it helps any at all. I think they got the idea from hot water bluing, where you do heat the metal in boiling water, and apply the bluing solution to the hot metal. The bluing chemicals for hot water bluing are much different than what is in cold blue.
Dixie Gunsmithing is offline  
Old November 30, 2014, 07:28 PM   #7
Blindstitch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 14, 2013
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Posts: 2,550
Well the way I understood what he was telling me wasn't heat the part and blue it. He explained it just like doing VHT paint on anything. Spray or brush it on I don't remember but then bake in an oven till done.
Blindstitch is offline  
Old November 30, 2014, 09:19 PM   #8
Dixie Gunsmithing
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: April 27, 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,923
Blindstitch,

I would think that that could make any of the bluing chemicals hard to remove when cleaning it before oiling. I'm sure you've noticed the streaks left by cold bluing being applied to cold metal, which one wipes off afterwards, then oils the surface.

I have a book on all the bluing methods that is known of, titled "Firearm Bluing and Browning", by Angier. I'll look for any mention of heating or baking the metal afterwards.
Dixie Gunsmithing is offline  
Old November 30, 2014, 09:55 PM   #9
Blindstitch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 14, 2013
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Posts: 2,550
Dixie Gunsmithing,
If you can find it i'm curious who and how it works.

For all I know someone gave him some sort of metal finish meant for something else. But he wanted me to figure out if it was still made.

Thanks
Blindstitch is offline  
Old December 1, 2014, 12:17 AM   #10
Bill DeShivs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 7, 2006
Posts: 10,299
Sounds like he may have used stove black, made for treating wood-burning stoves.
__________________
Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler
www.billdeshivs.com
Bill DeShivs is online now  
Old December 1, 2014, 12:50 PM   #11
dyl
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 31, 2009
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,107
parkerizing

Could there have been a chance he was talking about manganese phosphate parkerizing? Prep the metal, heat the solution, put the part in the hot solution and watch it work?
dyl is offline  
Old December 1, 2014, 01:24 PM   #12
Blindstitch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 14, 2013
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Posts: 2,550
I'm not sure about the phosphate parkerizing but I could see someone using stove black.

He lacked details besides he did it and It was done to a Whippet 16 gauge break action. Never heard any more about the shotgun besides the finish looked good. Never heard if it even lasted or held up.
Blindstitch is offline  
Old December 1, 2014, 06:55 PM   #13
gunnut69
Member
 
Join Date: June 23, 2013
Posts: 40
Brownells OxphoBlue works best if the metal is heated a bit before application as it reacts with steel to change the color. Some cold blues just coat the metal..
gunnut69 is offline  
Old December 4, 2014, 03:02 PM   #14
Skans
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2008
Posts: 10,932
Quote:
Nope. Your buddy needs to start with 0000 steel wool and some light oil to get the rust off. Then think about cold bluing.
O'Heir said it best^^^ I'll add the cold bluing paste works best. Multiple applications and 0000 steel wool between each application. Just make sure that after your final application, all if it is off and wipe the gun down (polishing it) with an oil-soaked microfiber cloth.

The gun will look good, but the bluing won't last as long as hot bluing nor provide much protection. Hot blued guns don't provide much protection against the elements either, so this is not a big deal to me.
Skans is offline  
Old January 27, 2018, 05:14 PM   #15
gstonedo
Junior Member
 
Join Date: January 27, 2018
Posts: 1
Dear TFL readers, I stumbled across another metallurgical site, "The Bladesmith's Forum" and found this article by Kevin (The Professor), June 9, 2010 in Fit and Finish. Where he explains the use of a dilute ferric chloride (FeCl) solution to treat his steel, and then baking the treated steel in his oven at 430 degrees F to get a beautiful black oxide (FeO4) patina. This sounds like the procedure that was being sought in the original question for this thread. If you would like to check it out, here is the link. Best of luck

https://www.bladesmithsforum.com/ind...nish-on-steel/
gstonedo is offline  
Old January 27, 2018, 08:21 PM   #16
boatbum101
Junior Member
 
Join Date: January 25, 2018
Location: Florida Panhandle
Posts: 14
I know you can heat it with a torch & quench it in oil to blue it . Don't imagine you'd be able to get the whole barreled action hot enough that way , but I've seen parts blued that way . Maybe if you could use a commercial oven ? Don't think anyone would let shove it in their pizza oven ....... you'd have to have a bluing tank with enough oil in it to quench too .
boatbum101 is offline  
Old January 28, 2018, 09:52 AM   #17
Oliver Sudden
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2017
Location: Colorado
Posts: 197
If the barrels were soft soldered heating to too high a tempiture can make them come apart.
Oliver Sudden is offline  
Old January 28, 2018, 01:39 PM   #18
T. O'Heir
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 11,931
OP is 4 years old.
__________________
Spelling and grammar count!
T. O'Heir is offline  
Old January 28, 2018, 09:12 PM   #19
Blindstitch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 14, 2013
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Posts: 2,550
Yep and the gun is still just as ugly. Pretty sure it will never get worked on.
__________________
NRA Lifetime Member
Blindstitch is offline  
Old January 29, 2018, 02:06 AM   #20
JohnKSa
Staff
 
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 22,960
Quote:
Pretty sure it will never get worked on.
Get some Oxpho Blue. Very easy to use, decent appearance, good corrosion protection (as far as a blued finish goes).

Clean up the rust with 0000 steel wool and then use the Oxpho on it. Follow the directions, especially the part about wearing gloves.

You should be able to do the whole gun in an hour or two of light work--maybe a lot less depending on how widespread the areas that need to be refinished are.
__________________
Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?
JohnKSa is offline  
Old February 13, 2018, 01:06 AM   #21
surveyor
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 13, 2007
Posts: 757
my local smith did this one
here were his notes.
Quote:
Here's a colt Commander that the nickel finish was in bad shape and I had to remove it. I didn't have the hot bluing setup at the time and blued it using oxfo cold blue and the boiling water method. Can't tell it apart from hot bluing.

Last edited by surveyor; February 13, 2018 at 01:22 AM.
surveyor is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.08340 seconds with 10 queries