Strange Problem with an M1 Garand

Hard Ball · June 23, 2001, 05:03 PM

I am having a strange problem with my M1 Garand. It is a Winchester with the original action and barrel. The other day I was shooting it at the range. After firing 6 or 7 clips I started to load another. It stuck about 90% of the way into the magazine and would not move in either direction. The cartridges are new Federal commercial. The en bloc clip is one I have used several times before. I checked it before I loaded it for dents or warping. It appeared normal. It accepted the 8 rounds normally when I loaded it.
At the moment it is still stuck 90% of the way into the magazine.Anyone kmow what could be causing the problem and any good way to fix it?

Ed Brunner · June 23, 2001, 08:20 PM

It is possible that the base of one of the rounds was not seated against the clip . It should be possible to remove the rounds from the clip and the clip should come out If it doesn't, you should be able to see what is holding it.

James K · June 23, 2001, 08:24 PM

First, I think it is necessary to get the thing unstuck.

Set the safety on!

Then, with the rifle pointing in a safe direction, try hooking the top round at the bullet end and prying up on it until it pops out of the clip. That should let the rest of the rounds come free the same way until the clip can be taken out.

I can't diagnose the problem long distance, but it may be that the commercial rounds are too long for the magazine, or that one of the rounds was a "long round" that hung things up. Always check any clip to be sure all the bullet tips are even.

I don't know what ammo you are using, but generally, commercial ammo is not a good idea in an M1; some of it gives high port pressure and can damage the op rod, but that is not the cause of this problem.

Jim

Cheapo · June 24, 2001, 06:13 PM

My high rounds always hang up on the top of the receiver, where it's easy to see.

Sounds to me (all apppropriate long-distance disclaimers) that that a lube problem or foreign matter inside the action where the follower will start to cam the op rod catch away from engagement could cause this type of a problem.

Unloading the enbloc clip as described above should take the tension off the system and allow you to close the action again.

I expect that you will field-strip the thing once the clip and ammo is all out.

***brain flash***

What if you bumped the op rod back while the clip was going in? You could have released the bolt, and that thing wants to go forward so strongly, it would jam up against the back of the clip and nothing would move.

And hauling back on the op rod will *not* lock the bolt back if you have a clip stuck in their...but it *should* free it to eject the loaded clip.

Try that first.

HTH...

Hard Ball · June 25, 2001, 10:21 AM

Thanks for your advice. I am off to see what I can do/

Hard Ball · July 18, 2001, 01:39 PM

I followed your advice and managed to shift the top round a little ineard. I then released the bolt and the tor round chanbered. I then cycled the bolt working all eight rounds through the action. AS I ejected the 8th round the empty clip ejected normally. Examination indicates that the top round was slightly over length for the Garand magazine. The other 7 rounds in the clip were not.
The problem seems to be solved. Thanks again for your good advice.

C.R.Sam · July 18, 2001, 06:08 PM

Hard Ball.....thanks for gettin back with report......Sam

Cheapo · July 18, 2001, 10:13 PM

Does the rifle release the bolt (actually the op rod) during the last 1/8-inch or so of seating the enbloc clip in the receiver?

If not, it will need some professional help.

Gewehr98 · July 22, 2001, 02:34 PM

I've fired several Garands, to include my DCM Navy Trophy Garand, where the oprod needed a slight bump on the handle to come forward and chamber the top round in the clip. In fact, the Winchester Garand I recently rebarreled and restored for my dad was a rather tight-fitting gun, and his won't automatically close the bolt, either. As his breaks in, he's supposed to let me know when it loosens up enough to fly forward upon insertion of the clip. Either way, we still load with the proper heel of the hand against the handle technique.

ok3wire · July 24, 2001, 01:12 PM

Gents,
I apologize ahead of time for the dumb question, but are "en bloc clips" required to operate the Garand, or is it possible to single load rounds to fill the magazine and then fire the rifle without these?

If these clips are, in fact, absolutely necessary to operate the rifle, are they relatively easy to acquire?

Thanks.

straightShot · July 24, 2001, 02:50 PM

ok3wire:

8 round enbloc clips are used to put 8 rounds into the mag at once. The clip gets expelled from the gun upon automatically extracting the last fired round, or with rounds still in the clip, the bolt open, and manually pressing the release button on the left side.

Without a clip, you load one round at a time into the chamber, (not the mag, since you need a clip to load the mag). Then, pull back slightly on the op rod and push down on the follower to release the bolt.

Yes, you can load one round at a time without a clip. They do make one round clips, however...

Hope this helps,

straightShot

ok3wire · July 24, 2001, 04:13 PM

Thanks for the clarification, straightShot.

June 23, 2001, 05:03 PM	#1
Hard Ball Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 1999 Location: California Posts: 3,925	Strange Problem with an M1 Garand I am having a strange problem with my M1 Garand. It is a Winchester with the original action and barrel. The other day I was shooting it at the range. After firing 6 or 7 clips I started to load another. It stuck about 90% of the way into the magazine and would not move in either direction. The cartridges are new Federal commercial. The en bloc clip is one I have used several times before. I checked it before I loaded it for dents or warping. It appeared normal. It accepted the 8 rounds normally when I loaded it. At the moment it is still stuck 90% of the way into the magazine.Anyone kmow what could be causing the problem and any good way to fix it? __________________ "I swear to defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemeis domestic or foreign WHOMSOEVER."

June 23, 2001, 08:20 PM	#2
Ed Brunner Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 1998 Location: Natchez, MS, USA Posts: 2,562	It is possible that the base of one of the rounds was not seated against the clip . It should be possible to remove the rounds from the clip and the clip should come out If it doesn't, you should be able to see what is holding it. __________________ MOLON LABE UNTIL IT'S OVER! Ed

June 24, 2001, 06:13 PM	#4
Cheapo Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1998 Posts: 986	My high rounds always hang up on the top of the receiver, where it's easy to see. Sounds to me (all apppropriate long-distance disclaimers) that that a lube problem or foreign matter inside the action where the follower will start to cam the op rod catch away from engagement could cause this type of a problem. Unloading the enbloc clip as described above should take the tension off the system and allow you to close the action again. I expect that you will field-strip the thing once the clip and ammo is all out. *brain flash* What if you bumped the op rod back while the clip was going in? You could have released the bolt, and that thing wants to go forward so strongly, it would jam up against the back of the clip and nothing would move. And hauling back on the op rod will not lock the bolt back if you have a clip stuck in their...but it should free it to eject the loaded clip. Try that first. HTH... __________________ Let us never forget that the only legitimate source of government power is the citizens. If WE cannot exercise a certain power, we cannot grant it to the state.

June 25, 2001, 10:21 AM	#5
Hard Ball Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 1999 Location: California Posts: 3,925	Thanks for your advice. I am off to see what I can do/ __________________ "I swear to defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemeis domestic or foreign WHOMSOEVER."

July 18, 2001, 01:39 PM	#6
Hard Ball Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 1999 Location: California Posts: 3,925	I followed your advice and managed to shift the top round a little ineard. I then released the bolt and the tor round chanbered. I then cycled the bolt working all eight rounds through the action. AS I ejected the 8th round the empty clip ejected normally. Examination indicates that the top round was slightly over length for the Garand magazine. The other 7 rounds in the clip were not. The problem seems to be solved. Thanks again for your good advice. __________________ "I swear to defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemeis domestic or foreign WHOMSOEVER."

June 23, 2001, 08:24 PM	#3
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	First, I think it is necessary to get the thing unstuck. Set the safety on! Then, with the rifle pointing in a safe direction, try hooking the top round at the bullet end and prying up on it until it pops out of the clip. That should let the rest of the rounds come free the same way until the clip can be taken out. I can't diagnose the problem long distance, but it may be that the commercial rounds are too long for the magazine, or that one of the rounds was a "long round" that hung things up. Always check any clip to be sure all the bullet tips are even. I don't know what ammo you are using, but generally, commercial ammo is not a good idea in an M1; some of it gives high port pressure and can damage the op rod, but that is not the cause of this problem. Jim

July 18, 2001, 06:08 PM	#7
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	Hard Ball.....thanks for gettin back with report......Sam

July 18, 2001, 10:13 PM	#8
Cheapo Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1998 Posts: 986	Does the rifle release the bolt (actually the op rod) during the last 1/8-inch or so of seating the enbloc clip in the receiver? If not, it will need some professional help. __________________ Let us never forget that the only legitimate source of government power is the citizens. If WE cannot exercise a certain power, we cannot grant it to the state.

July 22, 2001, 02:34 PM	#9
Gewehr98 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2000 Location: Token Creek, WI Posts: 4,067	Cheapo, not necessarily... I've fired several Garands, to include my DCM Navy Trophy Garand, where the oprod needed a slight bump on the handle to come forward and chamber the top round in the clip. In fact, the Winchester Garand I recently rebarreled and restored for my dad was a rather tight-fitting gun, and his won't automatically close the bolt, either. As his breaks in, he's supposed to let me know when it loosens up enough to fly forward upon insertion of the clip. Either way, we still load with the proper heel of the hand against the handle technique. __________________ "Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round... Neural Misfires

July 24, 2001, 01:12 PM	#10
ok3wire Member Join Date: April 27, 2001 Location: Lost Angeles Posts: 37	Gents, I apologize ahead of time for the dumb question, but are "en bloc clips" required to operate the Garand, or is it possible to single load rounds to fill the magazine and then fire the rifle without these? If these clips are, in fact, absolutely necessary to operate the rifle, are they relatively easy to acquire? Thanks. __________________ Semper Fi Bill

July 24, 2001, 02:50 PM	#11
straightShot Senior Member Join Date: July 2, 2000 Location: MI, USA Posts: 668	ok3wire: 8 round enbloc clips are used to put 8 rounds into the mag at once. The clip gets expelled from the gun upon automatically extracting the last fired round, or with rounds still in the clip, the bolt open, and manually pressing the release button on the left side. Without a clip, you load one round at a time into the chamber, (not the mag, since you need a clip to load the mag). Then, pull back slightly on the op rod and push down on the follower to release the bolt. Yes, you can load one round at a time without a clip. They do make one round clips, however... Hope this helps, straightShot

July 24, 2001, 04:13 PM	#12
ok3wire Member Join Date: April 27, 2001 Location: Lost Angeles Posts: 37	Thanks for the clarification, straightShot. __________________ Semper Fi Bill