12 year old girl online backlash over hunting photos

Erno86 · August 17, 2016, 02:56 PM

"12 year old girl faces online backlash over hunting photos."

You go girl...and a pretty one at that.

Link:

https://gma.yahoo.com/12-old-girl-fa...opstories.htrr

Bartholomew Roberts · August 17, 2016, 03:35 PM

Nothing says "peace, love and understanding" like death threats to a 12yr. old girl for engaging in an activity men have been doing since before recorded time.

Pahoo · August 17, 2016, 03:54 PM

My only regret is that she was not one of our students in our hunter Safety classes. .......

A few years back, we had a young lad that had gone through one of our classes. He had followed up with a bunch of questions on hunting with an M/L.
He too was 12yr's at the time and one winter afternoon, got a letter from him with a 8-point, in the bloody snow. I thanked him for sharing it with me and last we communicated, has taken may deer and planning a Caribou hunt. ...

Be Safe !!!

MarkCO · August 17, 2016, 04:06 PM

I hunt a LOT as well. But, you won't see me posting, or even liking images of harvested animals on FB. Why shove something that is disturbing to some others in their face. My Mom hates killing, does not want to see any animal my Dad or I killed, but she eats the meat and does not mind hunting at all...she just does not want to see it. There are certain things I do not want to see either, and I avoid them. I hunt for meat, recreation, etc. While I do not think there is anything wrong with trophy hunting or trophy photos, I do think that more tact is often the better path than what some choose to post on FB. Not a fan of PC either.

5whiskey · August 17, 2016, 04:20 PM

Quote:

While I do not think there is anything wrong with trophy hunting or trophy photos, I do think that more tact is often the better path than what some choose to post on FB. Not a fan of PC either.

I have mixed feelings about it as well. I would like to say that I wouldn't post that photo... but if I paid the money to go on a South African hunt and my 12y/o harvested a Zebra with a bow, I would probably share it.

I don't kill anything that I won't eat, however, and my children are taught the same thing (with the exception of nuisance animals such as Coyote). So... with my feelings there is unless Zebra steak is tasty or they are over-populated and destroying the land I wouldn't harvest one.

Old Bill Dibble · August 17, 2016, 04:26 PM

If your friends hate what you love you may have the wrong friends.

zincwarrior · August 17, 2016, 04:37 PM

Thats a philosophical question that is dependent on what you are doing that you love.

s3779m · August 17, 2016, 04:38 PM

Quote:

If your friends hate what you love you may have the wrong friends.

Explains why none of my friends are democrate.

mehavey · August 17, 2016, 06:51 PM

Quote:

I would like to say that I wouldn't post that photo...

^^^^ That ^^^^
Oft times discretion is the better part...
(especially the cuddly giraffe)

(I would offer that traditional American game animals would not have gotten the reaction
that the Disneyized African fauna now engender ... just a fact of life these days.)

lockedcj7 · August 17, 2016, 07:33 PM

Most people know almost nothing about wildlife or wildlife management. It may be that zebras and giraffe are overpopulated and putting more vulnerable species at risk. I honestly don't know but I know enough to realize that it's a possibility.

Animal rights activists, in general, know even less about wildlife. All they know comes from movies, books and wildlife "documentaries". The anthropomorphism is out of control and these people have the ear of the media and policy makers. What they mistakenly believe and advocate for is now preventing sound management based on good science.

That said, I also wouldn't post those pics. I would share them with my like-minded friends like I have done here with my own son. Heck, I was taught 30 years ago in my own hunter's safety class that the quickest way to turn a non-hunter into an anti-hunter is to strap a bloody deer to the hood of your car and pull up next to them at a red light.

Blindstitch · August 17, 2016, 09:05 PM

I have a friend who volunteered at an animal farm that took in animals that didn't have a home (several goats, horses, and donkeys). Most of the people that helped out there were animal friendly vegans that would shame him everytime he showed up with fast food that involved meat. He was interested in hunting with me so after taking hunters safety with 12 year olds (he's 33) he got his certificate and we went pheasant hunting twice.

Opening day he got a bird and 2 weeks later I took him out and he got another. I was proud but he forbid me from putting the photos on facebook which i'm fine with. But he was in fear that the people at the farm would think bad at him. Yes he did eat the birds and said they were delicious but eventually the group fast food shamed him out of volunteering.

Their loss. They also didn't like him fishing. Yeah I take him to do that too.

My wife on the other hand is a vegetarian animal lover. All she asks is that I clean up my mess before she gets home. Ever fillet a salmon yeah it looks like a Halloween massacre.

Shaming little kids is pathetic. Treat people like humans and they will threat you right. And if not get rid of them.

Pahoo · August 18, 2016, 10:41 AM

She posted these pictures in FaceBook and that certainly is her right. I have also seen follow-up news reports and very much impressed with her attitude. .....

As we all know and confirmed every day, you have an array of Bunny-Huggers that think their protein is grown at Walmart. These folks also have their rights to protest but threats of physical harm is totally out of line if not downright illegal. These folks will do just about anything to silence hunters and firearm owners. We also know who they are and they will always try to create storms that we are willing to ride-out. By the way, I don't do FaceBook .....

Be Safe !!!

Double Naught Spy · August 18, 2016, 11:59 AM

I am continually amazed by folks who post in fully public formats and then are upset when what they are doing is found disagreeable by folks. She could have shut down 99% of the FB problem by not having a fully public page that anybody can view. So part of this backlash is on her and her father for allowing it to continue.

That isn't to say that the negative comments are right, and the death threats are completely out of line. However, everybody has a right to be offended. and if this huntress and her father want to be offended by people's negative comments by people who are offended by her public presentation of her kills, she is going to have to learn to deal with it. Maybe some parental controls on how the images were broadcast on the internet should have been considered. Even after the backlash, I don't see these folks backing down and that is their right, but wholly cow, daddy can put a stop to this garbage pretty quick and has utterly failed to do so. That is daughter continues to be subjected to nasty comments via her very public FB page is on him as a parent.

When you are in the public eye, and the Gourdins are putting themselves there, then you are in public scrutiny, plain and simple, whether you like it or not.

BTW, her FB page is still up and still getting nasty comments. They can put a stop to it, but won't. It is time to for dad to do something about this and stop playing the martyr card.

T. O'Heir · August 18, 2016, 12:14 PM

Facebook death threats to a 12 year old girl or anybody else are just as illegal as if the criminal was standing in front of her. It's called 'Uttering a death threat', up here. Pop should be talking to the Constabulary.
"...friendly vegans..." Know a few. Used to tease a mom & daughter saying they had to keep eating like that so come the Famine, there'd be food for those of us higher up the Food Chain.
"...unless Zebra steak is..." Game meat, of any kind, harvested by tourists usually goes to the locals. Doesn't get wasted.

TimSr · August 18, 2016, 12:34 PM

Maybe if everybody did this, it would be considered "normal" and there wouldn't be a public outcry from the ignorant. I often ask antis to describe their vision of a "natural death" for any animal, and never seem to get an answer.

Fact is, God made herbivores fast multiplying, and relatively easy to kill, and put them in the ecosystem for one purpose - to feed the predators and scavengers. A certain percentage need to be harvested every year, an consumed by predators and scavengers, and if human omnivores are part of that process without being harmful to it, it is by design.

At least I can respect practicing vegans, but for those who eat hamburgers, while elevating the value of a deer or giraffe's life beyond a cow are just silly hypocrites.

Erno86 · August 18, 2016, 01:15 PM

The girl's hunting pics made CBS News with Bill Kelly last night, but was preempted buy a graphic hunting video, that drew online outrage from animal rights activists and anti-hunters.

Here's the graphic link, that Bill Kelly said that the NDP of Alberta province of Canada is planning to ban spear hunting for bears; since watching the video.

Look's like the guy made an effective spear broadside hit on the boar's liver or rear part of the lungs; along with a GoPro camera he had mounted on the spear.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOUaToK0ygQ

Blindstitch · August 18, 2016, 01:22 PM

All they have to do is make the facebook page private and only friends can see what goes on.

Besides facebook is suppose to be for those 18 and older. Probably some liability issues.

JWT · August 18, 2016, 01:22 PM

Nice pictures and she should be proud. Unfortunately in this day and age the anti gunners and animal rights activists do get their knickers in a real bind over such things. If they don't like it simply don't look at it. No one forces them to view it.

zincwarrior · August 18, 2016, 01:32 PM

What exactly did they expect was going to happen?

As Double Nought noted, if you don't want backlash don't post your pictures
publicly. I'd be more concerned about the stupidity shown by this family in the initial post and then not taking it private when comments started. SOunds like they are trolling for attention.

Putting something out for public comments, well put on your big girl panties and don't whine when the public-many of whom vociferously disagree and find your practice barbaric- comments.

While I am not a hunter my Boy used to hunt. Thats his thing and I drool over his rifle when I see it, but he knows not to post anything publicly, because that never ever goes away and can be used against you by others. And thats anything, not just hunting pics.

EDIT: To be clear I am not condemning her hunting. Posting pics on the internet is open to abuse, as half the internet appears to be trolls now.

Erno86 · August 18, 2016, 02:15 PM

NDP Alberta story link about them planning to ban bear hunting with a spear --- after a "social media outrage from social media anti-hunting justice warriors."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed_fPxl2Qgs

WVMountaineer · August 18, 2016, 08:38 PM

I'd post them and smile while doing so. I'd also say that it is everyone's right to do as they wish but, you won't see me cower with my tail between my legs for the way I live. Simply, there is no need to feel that way or feel it is best left unsaid. If you or others don't like looking at it then don't. But, this sneaking around and being secretive has done nothing for our way of life. Nor has apologizing for it.

When Palmer shot Cecil, there was such an uproar. A lot come from hunters that bought into and drank the kool-aid he had done something wrong. The last time I checked, he was acquitted from all charges. Which means he wasn't wrong nor, did he do anything that needs apologizing for.

This is a personal topic that each has to make their mind up on. And, I'm not knocking you if you decide that posting a pic of a dead Zebra isn't your thing. But, I wouldn't nor, ever will apologize for a fellow hunter that legally harvested an animal and shared their excitement with their friends on social media. Facebook only shows your friends your posts. Once tagged by someone, it goes viral for sure. It wasn't like she was rubbing it in anyone's noses or being disrespectful. She simply shared it with someone who had a friend that didn't agree with it and pointed it out to their nazi like friends.

It is their attempt to silence you and I. I just refuse to go long with it. God Bless

reynolds357 · August 23, 2016, 02:49 PM

Kill the 12 year old human and save the Zebra. Thats some liberal tree hugger logic for you.

g.willikers · August 23, 2016, 04:13 PM

As goofy as things are getting these days, it's probably prudent to share interests with like-minded folks, rather than the world at large.
Besides, like-minded people will be truly interested without complaint.
Hunting for hunter forums, competitions for those attending shooting matches, motorsports for the go fast folks, 'etc.

Pahoo · August 23, 2016, 07:04 PM

There has always been Bunny-Huggers among us. That're stupidity and ignorance has been with us for as long as I can remember. Why are we now giving them more attention? I think it's because we too shy or want to get on the PC wagon, to tell them to shut-up. .....

Be Safe !!!

reynolds357 · August 23, 2016, 09:11 PM

I think I made a tree hugger have a mental breakdown when I was in college. He was picking up ants on the side walk and moving them to the grass so they would not get stepped on. I stomped all of them. He cried like a baby. Priceless.

The crazy thing is these same tree huggers almost universally support the right to kill unborn babies. Go figure that one out.

August 17, 2016, 02:56 PM	#1
Erno86 Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2012 Location: Marriottsville, Maryland Posts: 1,739	12 year old girl online backlash over hunting photos "12 year old girl faces online backlash over hunting photos." You go girl...and a pretty one at that. Link: https://gma.yahoo.com/12-old-girl-fa...opstories.htrr __________________ That rifle hanging on the wall of the working class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." --- George Orwell Last edited by Erno86; August 19, 2016 at 10:55 AM.

August 17, 2016, 03:54 PM	#3
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 8,783	She has my compliments !!! My only regret is that she was not one of our students in our hunter Safety classes. ....... A few years back, we had a young lad that had gone through one of our classes. He had followed up with a bunch of questions on hunting with an M/L. He too was 12yr's at the time and one winter afternoon, got a letter from him with a 8-point, in the bloody snow. I thanked him for sharing it with me and last we communicated, has taken may deer and planning a Caribou hunt. ... Be Safe !!! __________________ 'Fundamental truths' are easy to recognize because they are verified daily through simple observation and thus, require no testing.

August 17, 2016, 04:06 PM	#4
MarkCO Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 1998 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 4,308	I hunt a LOT as well. But, you won't see me posting, or even liking images of harvested animals on FB. Why shove something that is disturbing to some others in their face. My Mom hates killing, does not want to see any animal my Dad or I killed, but she eats the meat and does not mind hunting at all...she just does not want to see it. There are certain things I do not want to see either, and I avoid them. I hunt for meat, recreation, etc. While I do not think there is anything wrong with trophy hunting or trophy photos, I do think that more tact is often the better path than what some choose to post on FB. Not a fan of PC either. __________________ Good Shooting, MarkCO www.CarbonArms.us

August 17, 2016, 07:33 PM	#10
lockedcj7 Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2007 Posts: 1,215	Most people know almost nothing about wildlife or wildlife management. It may be that zebras and giraffe are overpopulated and putting more vulnerable species at risk. I honestly don't know but I know enough to realize that it's a possibility. Animal rights activists, in general, know even less about wildlife. All they know comes from movies, books and wildlife "documentaries". The anthropomorphism is out of control and these people have the ear of the media and policy makers. What they mistakenly believe and advocate for is now preventing sound management based on good science. That said, I also wouldn't post those pics. I would share them with my like-minded friends like I have done here with my own son. Heck, I was taught 30 years ago in my own hunter's safety class that the quickest way to turn a non-hunter into an anti-hunter is to strap a bloody deer to the hood of your car and pull up next to them at a red light. __________________ To a much greater extent than most mechanical devices, firearms are terribly unforgiving of any overconfidence, complacency or negligence.

August 18, 2016, 10:41 AM	#12
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 8,783	Riding out the storms She posted these pictures in FaceBook and that certainly is her right. I have also seen follow-up news reports and very much impressed with her attitude. ..... As we all know and confirmed every day, you have an array of Bunny-Huggers that think their protein is grown at Walmart. These folks also have their rights to protest but threats of physical harm is totally out of line if not downright illegal. These folks will do just about anything to silence hunters and firearm owners. We also know who they are and they will always try to create storms that we are willing to ride-out. By the way, I don't do FaceBook ..... Be Safe !!! __________________ 'Fundamental truths' are easy to recognize because they are verified daily through simple observation and thus, require no testing.

August 17, 2016, 03:35 PM	#2
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	Nothing says "peace, love and understanding" like death threats to a 12yr. old girl for engaging in an activity men have been doing since before recorded time.

August 17, 2016, 04:26 PM	#6
Old Bill Dibble Senior Member Join Date: July 25, 2016 Posts: 802	If your friends hate what you love you may have the wrong friends.

August 17, 2016, 04:37 PM	#7
zincwarrior Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2011 Location: Texas, land of Tex-Mex Posts: 2,259	Thats a philosophical question that is dependent on what you are doing that you love.

August 17, 2016, 09:05 PM	#11
Blindstitch Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2013 Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 2,693	I have a friend who volunteered at an animal farm that took in animals that didn't have a home (several goats, horses, and donkeys). Most of the people that helped out there were animal friendly vegans that would shame him everytime he showed up with fast food that involved meat. He was interested in hunting with me so after taking hunters safety with 12 year olds (he's 33) he got his certificate and we went pheasant hunting twice. Opening day he got a bird and 2 weeks later I took him out and he got another. I was proud but he forbid me from putting the photos on facebook which i'm fine with. But he was in fear that the people at the farm would think bad at him. Yes he did eat the birds and said they were delicious but eventually the group fast food shamed him out of volunteering. Their loss. They also didn't like him fishing. Yeah I take him to do that too. My wife on the other hand is a vegetarian animal lover. All she asks is that I clean up my mess before she gets home. Ever fillet a salmon yeah it looks like a Halloween massacre. Shaming little kids is pathetic. Treat people like humans and they will threat you right. And if not get rid of them.

August 18, 2016, 11:59 AM	#13
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,717	I am continually amazed by folks who post in fully public formats and then are upset when what they are doing is found disagreeable by folks. She could have shut down 99% of the FB problem by not having a fully public page that anybody can view. So part of this backlash is on her and her father for allowing it to continue. That isn't to say that the negative comments are right, and the death threats are completely out of line. However, everybody has a right to be offended. and if this huntress and her father want to be offended by people's negative comments by people who are offended by her public presentation of her kills, she is going to have to learn to deal with it. Maybe some parental controls on how the images were broadcast on the internet should have been considered. Even after the backlash, I don't see these folks backing down and that is their right, but wholly cow, daddy can put a stop to this garbage pretty quick and has utterly failed to do so. That is daughter continues to be subjected to nasty comments via her very public FB page is on him as a parent. When you are in the public eye, and the Gourdins are putting themselves there, then you are in public scrutiny, plain and simple, whether you like it or not. BTW, her FB page is still up and still getting nasty comments. They can put a stop to it, but won't. It is time to for dad to do something about this and stop playing the martyr card. __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange Last edited by Double Naught Spy; August 18, 2016 at 02:48 PM.

August 18, 2016, 12:14 PM	#14
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Facebook death threats to a 12 year old girl or anybody else are just as illegal as if the criminal was standing in front of her. It's called 'Uttering a death threat', up here. Pop should be talking to the Constabulary. "...friendly vegans..." Know a few. Used to tease a mom & daughter saying they had to keep eating like that so come the Famine, there'd be food for those of us higher up the Food Chain. "...unless Zebra steak is..." Game meat, of any kind, harvested by tourists usually goes to the locals. Doesn't get wasted. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

August 18, 2016, 12:34 PM	#15
TimSr Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2013 Location: Rittman, Ohio Posts: 2,074	Maybe if everybody did this, it would be considered "normal" and there wouldn't be a public outcry from the ignorant. I often ask antis to describe their vision of a "natural death" for any animal, and never seem to get an answer. Fact is, God made herbivores fast multiplying, and relatively easy to kill, and put them in the ecosystem for one purpose - to feed the predators and scavengers. A certain percentage need to be harvested every year, an consumed by predators and scavengers, and if human omnivores are part of that process without being harmful to it, it is by design. At least I can respect practicing vegans, but for those who eat hamburgers, while elevating the value of a deer or giraffe's life beyond a cow are just silly hypocrites.

August 18, 2016, 01:15 PM	#16
Erno86 Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2012 Location: Marriottsville, Maryland Posts: 1,739	The girl's hunting pics made CBS News with Bill Kelly last night, but was preempted buy a graphic hunting video, that drew online outrage from animal rights activists and anti-hunters. Here's the graphic link, that Bill Kelly said that the NDP of Alberta province of Canada is planning to ban spear hunting for bears; since watching the video. Look's like the guy made an effective spear broadside hit on the boar's liver or rear part of the lungs; along with a GoPro camera he had mounted on the spear. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOUaToK0ygQ __________________ That rifle hanging on the wall of the working class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." --- George Orwell Last edited by Erno86; August 18, 2016 at 01:27 PM.

August 18, 2016, 01:22 PM	#17
Blindstitch Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2013 Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 2,693	All they have to do is make the facebook page private and only friends can see what goes on. Besides facebook is suppose to be for those 18 and older. Probably some liability issues.

August 18, 2016, 01:22 PM	#18
JWT Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2007 Location: Southern Arizona Posts: 3,888	Nice pictures and she should be proud. Unfortunately in this day and age the anti gunners and animal rights activists do get their knickers in a real bind over such things. If they don't like it simply don't look at it. No one forces them to view it.

August 18, 2016, 01:32 PM	#19
zincwarrior Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2011 Location: Texas, land of Tex-Mex Posts: 2,259	What exactly did they expect was going to happen? As Double Nought noted, if you don't want backlash don't post your pictures publicly. I'd be more concerned about the stupidity shown by this family in the initial post and then not taking it private when comments started. SOunds like they are trolling for attention. Putting something out for public comments, well put on your big girl panties and don't whine when the public-many of whom vociferously disagree and find your practice barbaric- comments. While I am not a hunter my Boy used to hunt. Thats his thing and I drool over his rifle when I see it, but he knows not to post anything publicly, because that never ever goes away and can be used against you by others. And thats anything, not just hunting pics. EDIT: To be clear I am not condemning her hunting. Posting pics on the internet is open to abuse, as half the internet appears to be trolls now. Last edited by zincwarrior; August 18, 2016 at 01:49 PM.

August 18, 2016, 02:15 PM	#20
Erno86 Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2012 Location: Marriottsville, Maryland Posts: 1,739	NDP Alberta story link about them planning to ban bear hunting with a spear --- after a "social media outrage from social media anti-hunting justice warriors." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed_fPxl2Qgs __________________ That rifle hanging on the wall of the working class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." --- George Orwell Last edited by Erno86; August 18, 2016 at 03:06 PM.

August 18, 2016, 08:38 PM	#21
WVMountaineer Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 2015 Posts: 330	I'd post them and smile while doing so. I'd also say that it is everyone's right to do as they wish but, you won't see me cower with my tail between my legs for the way I live. Simply, there is no need to feel that way or feel it is best left unsaid. If you or others don't like looking at it then don't. But, this sneaking around and being secretive has done nothing for our way of life. Nor has apologizing for it. When Palmer shot Cecil, there was such an uproar. A lot come from hunters that bought into and drank the kool-aid he had done something wrong. The last time I checked, he was acquitted from all charges. Which means he wasn't wrong nor, did he do anything that needs apologizing for. This is a personal topic that each has to make their mind up on. And, I'm not knocking you if you decide that posting a pic of a dead Zebra isn't your thing. But, I wouldn't nor, ever will apologize for a fellow hunter that legally harvested an animal and shared their excitement with their friends on social media. Facebook only shows your friends your posts. Once tagged by someone, it goes viral for sure. It wasn't like she was rubbing it in anyone's noses or being disrespectful. She simply shared it with someone who had a friend that didn't agree with it and pointed it out to their nazi like friends. It is their attempt to silence you and I. I just refuse to go long with it. God Bless

August 23, 2016, 02:49 PM	#22
reynolds357 Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2012 Posts: 6,165	Kill the 12 year old human and save the Zebra. Thats some liberal tree hugger logic for you.

August 23, 2016, 04:13 PM	#23
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	As goofy as things are getting these days, it's probably prudent to share interests with like-minded folks, rather than the world at large. Besides, like-minded people will be truly interested without complaint. Hunting for hunter forums, competitions for those attending shooting matches, motorsports for the go fast folks, 'etc. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

August 23, 2016, 07:04 PM	#24
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 8,783	We pay too much attention There has always been Bunny-Huggers among us. That're stupidity and ignorance has been with us for as long as I can remember. Why are we now giving them more attention? I think it's because we too shy or want to get on the PC wagon, to tell them to shut-up. ..... Be Safe !!! __________________ 'Fundamental truths' are easy to recognize because they are verified daily through simple observation and thus, require no testing.

August 23, 2016, 09:11 PM	#25
reynolds357 Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2012 Posts: 6,165	I think I made a tree hugger have a mental breakdown when I was in college. He was picking up ants on the side walk and moving them to the grass so they would not get stepped on. I stomped all of them. He cried like a baby. Priceless. The crazy thing is these same tree huggers almost universally support the right to kill unborn babies. Go figure that one out.