The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting > Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old May 3, 2014, 04:28 PM   #1
Beagle333
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2012
Location: Auburn, AL.
Posts: 2,332
Powdercoating update.... now cheaper!!

There is a new technique that just came about yesterday (it wasn't me), but it uses the old dry tumble technique with a new exciting and very improved twist! You still tumble in a #5 recyclable container (CoolWhip bowls have the #5 in a triangle on the bottom, as do other things.... it's a type of plastic that seems to generate static well through friction), but you add a bunch of black Airsoft BBs in there to tumble with the bullets. We don't know exactly why, but black seems to be the only color BBs that will work. The other colored ones didn't generate static and pick up the powder and make the powder stick to the bullets.
The BBs sort of ping the powder onto the bullets like the old moly coating technique. The soft BBs just press the powder to them in a very fine statically-charged even coat.

Alright, here's the gear. I put about 1/3 of that CoolWhip bowl full of BBs, dumped in about (well, you'll see) so many bullets, and about a heaping tablespoon of HF red powder and shook it pretty vigorously (holding the lid on tightly) for 2 mins. Then fished em out by the nose with my needlenose pliers. After you pick as many as you can see, just swirl gently and the others will "float" up in the BBs. Then stack em on non-stick foil and bake as by directions.
I did use too much powder this time, as I have a lot of it left in the bottom of the CoolWhip bowl. No worries, it'll be there for the next batch, but it would help coverage if I had used a little less. But I was in a rush.


And here is my first hurried test of it...... I think this is vastly better than the other tumble dry methods I have tried! This really works great! 100% of the driving bands are covered and if one was careful with tweezers or hemostats or picked them up by the lube groove with some sharp-tipped bent tweezers, they wouldn't have a scratch on em. As it is, I got a couple of light scratches on just a few of the noses.... but not many at all! I could have still cherry picked 3/4 of these for a glamour photo if I was wanting to impress somebody.


And as I'm always saying... the driving bands are what matters. It's a slippery coating between the bullet and the barrel, the nose and base coating is just for people who want a shiny nose. But this does make a beautiful coat.
One shake, one bake.... with no air compressor, no HF gun, no wasted powder, no flashing..... awesome! This ought get anybody off the fence who was interested but didn't want to spend the $$ on the other equipment.

I'm saying this method rocks!

Here they are, fresh outta the oven, untouched, unsized and still about 350 degrees. One pass through my Lee sizer die and they'll be slick as glass and ready for loading! (if you haven't read about coating before, it adds about .002 to the diameter of the bullets, so they are resized before loading, if needed)
And as I mentioned above, I got the powder a little thick on this first try...
start off light and add more as you need.... there's no ticking clock, 'matter-of-fact - you can even put em back in the bowl and do it again if you don't like the coat or you scratch one up while transferring. It's not going to suddenly get hard or cure on you until you actually bake it. Take your time and have fun!

__________________
.
.
.
Have a Colt and a smile.

Last edited by Beagle333; May 4, 2014 at 08:06 AM.
Beagle333 is offline  
Old May 3, 2014, 05:11 PM   #2
2ndchance
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 21, 2008
Location: Glendale, AZ
Posts: 180
That looks very promising!
2ndchance is offline  
Old May 3, 2014, 05:37 PM   #3
Beagle333
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2012
Location: Auburn, AL.
Posts: 2,332
Here they are, indoors with flash. Group photo after sizing. This was a first attempt, and you can see a little silver on a few of the noses where I grabbed them with the flat sided needlenose pliers for the transfer from the CoolWhip tub to the baking tray, but the driving bands are 100% on every one.
Maybe with a little practice and if I sharpen the tips of the pliers..... they'll be as pretty as they are functional!



And of course, the obligatory glamour close-up.


I see no reason to spray any more, except for the novelty of it, or occasions such as next week when Mom requested a box of red ones for Mother's Day, and I'll want them perfect.
This should put my HF gun back in the closet most of the time.
__________________
.
.
.
Have a Colt and a smile.

Last edited by Beagle333; May 3, 2014 at 05:53 PM.
Beagle333 is offline  
Old May 3, 2014, 11:33 PM   #4
A pause for the COZ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 11, 2012
Location: Braham, Minnesota
Posts: 1,314
Ok.... I will have to give that a try.
I do have the HF gun and works outstanding. But it sure does leave a cloud of powder. Plus I think this way would really conserve the powder.
Another plus would be NO FLASHING!!! I bet that no stick foil would last along time too.
Oh are you pre cleaning the bullets with Acetone?
I would like not to have to do that part.





A pause for the COZ is offline  
Old May 3, 2014, 11:48 PM   #5
Vance
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 16, 2011
Location: North Bend, OR
Posts: 743
I found that if I dipped the nose of the needle nose pliers in the powder that there was very little powder disturbed on the bullets from tranfering them.
Vance is offline  
Old May 3, 2014, 11:51 PM   #6
Vance
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 16, 2011
Location: North Bend, OR
Posts: 743
Just had an idea about using a PID unit to keep the toaster oven at the correct temp.. Probably need at least a 25 amp SSR in the unit and not the 10 alot of people use.
Vance is offline  
Old May 4, 2014, 03:59 AM   #7
nemesiss45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 6, 2014
Posts: 526
Those look nice. im in, ill be picking up some powder to try this out soon.
nemesiss45 is offline  
Old May 4, 2014, 05:40 AM   #8
Beagle333
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2012
Location: Auburn, AL.
Posts: 2,332
It does completely eliminate the overspray, the flashing on the bases, and any "cloud" you might have gotten. (I spray outside, so dunno 'bout that).... and the foil apparently can be used over and over. It's clean after baking.

No pre-cleaning with anything. These are as-cast, and I even size before coating, using bare hands. I have never cleaned my bullets before PC, and see no reason to use acetone, brake cleaner or paint thinner, in my application.

I'm not sure what SSR is in my PID.... I asked Frozone before I hooked up the oven and he said it would handle anything I could plug into a regular wall outlet.

I'm going to heat up some needlenose pliers and sharpen them into a pair of these. I don't see these leaving any marks, especially if you can grab the bullet by the lube groove when fishing it out of the BBs.
__________________
.
.
.
Have a Colt and a smile.

Last edited by Beagle333; May 4, 2014 at 05:47 AM.
Beagle333 is offline  
Old May 4, 2014, 06:33 AM   #9
Mike / Tx
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 8, 2000
Posts: 2,101
See there, I knew if I waited long enough, someone would come up with a no nonsense, cheap way to work this gunk.

As for the pliars, I was going to suggest something along the lines of what you have there above.

Guess I need to find someone who likes cool whip or at least start looking over the different bowl bottoms we recycle....

Well then there is the taoster oven thing, I haven't got that, but who knows when someone might put one on sale, I do have some Lowes gift cvards and I remember seeing things like that over there once when I got lost.....
__________________
LAter,
Mike / TX
Mike / Tx is offline  
Old May 4, 2014, 07:42 AM   #10
Beagle333
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2012
Location: Auburn, AL.
Posts: 2,332
Toaster ovens

The best ovens are convection toaster ovens. You do get a real benefit in the coating consistency from the moving air, and they also tend to have better thermostats. If you use a regular toaster, be sure to use a thermometer or some way other than the dial to check the temp. Some toasters (the "glowing rod" models) will get hot enough to melt lead bullets into a puddle during heatup if you don't keep an eye on em.


Where to get em?

Cheapest place.... yard sales. They are practically giving them away.

Next cheapest..... Thrift Stores... they usually have them, and if you aren't a regular Thrift Store shopper, you might not know that you can almost always haggle the price a bit and get some knocked off. I have seen fairly nice convection toaster ovens going for $7 bucks.

Another great option: Craigslist... I found my nearly new Euro-Pro 3-rack convection toaster oven for 30 bucks on there.

I believe that WalMart has several brands of convection ovens as well, and some start at around $39 if you wanted to go the brand new route.

Happy baking!
__________________
.
.
.
Have a Colt and a smile.

Last edited by Beagle333; May 4, 2014 at 07:56 AM.
Beagle333 is offline  
Old May 4, 2014, 02:49 PM   #11
Mike / Tx
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 8, 2000
Posts: 2,101
Well I'll be sure to look for the convention, but you know I'll have to go the PID route on the temp control...
__________________
LAter,
Mike / TX
Mike / Tx is offline  
Old May 4, 2014, 04:08 PM   #12
Beagle333
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2012
Location: Auburn, AL.
Posts: 2,332
The convection oven benefits greatly (as do all) from the PID. Just remember to wire the fan straight to constant power, since it doesn't need to pulse like the heat.
__________________
.
.
.
Have a Colt and a smile.
Beagle333 is offline  
Old May 4, 2014, 08:37 PM   #13
Beagle333
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2012
Location: Auburn, AL.
Posts: 2,332
I found these neat little fishing forceps at WallyWorld today for $3.74, and with some expert machining using a 9" bastard file and the last few gasps of propane, I fashioned this.


I am thinking that the very small dots of powder that it disturbs while bullet-picking will flow over when it melts and cures and make way cleaner-looking bullets than using the flat side of the needlenose.
I may tweak it just a little bit when I get another bottle of gas, but I'm really happy with it, as is.
__________________
.
.
.
Have a Colt and a smile.
Beagle333 is offline  
Old May 5, 2014, 02:01 PM   #14
A pause for the COZ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 11, 2012
Location: Braham, Minnesota
Posts: 1,314
Nice!!!
I think I have a set of those. This is Minnesota after all we all have fishing gear.

No luck on the BB's yet. All my Son's are colored but no black ones.
No cool whip containers around here. But I did find that the large Aldi's yogurt containers are all #5's and I have more than a few.
A pause for the COZ is offline  
Old May 5, 2014, 04:39 PM   #15
Mike / Tx
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 8, 2000
Posts: 2,101
Ya know after looking at those again, I had something awefully similar back in HS, but they had a set of notches that latched together to hold "things". They weren't all pointed like that though.













I used them to remove fish hooks while I was wade fishing in the bay and surf, I know thats what you were thinking of right???
__________________
LAter,
Mike / TX
Mike / Tx is offline  
Old May 5, 2014, 05:30 PM   #16
Beagle333
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2012
Location: Auburn, AL.
Posts: 2,332
These have a set of notches between the finger grips, out of frame.
They are your standard hemostats, hot dipped and sold to fishermen.

I picked up a nice Sterilite container from Publix this evening, $1.52 on sale. It is square and has a lockable lid and is about the same dimensions as a shoe box sawed in half. It's made for storing CD's. And it's #5 plastic. It should hold about 300 b̶o̶o̶l̶i̶t̶s̶ bullets and be perfect for tumbling and easy retrieval. I'll download a pic next time I walk by the camera. I bought 5 of em..... they look like great mold/die boxes too.
__________________
.
.
.
Have a Colt and a smile.
Beagle333 is offline  
Old May 5, 2014, 05:46 PM   #17
Gster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 2, 2012
Location: N.central Pa.
Posts: 302
Very impressive. I'd like to see a close up pic. of your forcing cone and barrel after you have shot a few of these. I'm just wondering here.
__________________
Gun control means: Being able to hit what you are shooting at.
Gster is offline  
Old May 5, 2014, 06:34 PM   #18
Mike / Tx
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 8, 2000
Posts: 2,101
Amazingly the cone and barrel are as clean as could be expected from shooting say a jacketed bullet through. Most are very clean other than the powder residue.

Trust me, I have been looking on from the shadows since I first saw this start up over on Castboolits a GOOD while back. I have a bottle of that red junk sittin atop of my primer locker right now, but the seal is still intact. I have too much, or many other little projects to get through before I start in on another one.

I'll get there eventually, but the old school way is still working very good for me.
__________________
LAter,
Mike / TX
Mike / Tx is offline  
Old May 5, 2014, 07:08 PM   #19
Beagle333
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2012
Location: Auburn, AL.
Posts: 2,332
I don't really take pics of guns very often. Or punched target pics. (which Mike keeps wanting to see)

I really can't tell any difference in the barrel or forcing cone later.
There are a LOT of barrel pics scattered around in the link below, where almost all of the R&D is going on for powdercoat testing. There are a lot of new things out there.... and they are all still evolving. This weekend's find just made powdercoating easier, cheaper, and brought testing a little more in reach for a few more people that didn't have the equipment before.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/foru...d-Alternatives
__________________
.
.
.
Have a Colt and a smile.

Last edited by Beagle333; May 5, 2014 at 07:17 PM.
Beagle333 is offline  
Old May 5, 2014, 07:17 PM   #20
A pause for the COZ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 11, 2012
Location: Braham, Minnesota
Posts: 1,314
Well Crud.... No luck finding black BB's
I have some white ones and yellow ones. I guess I will try those.

Buuuuut I was wondering about packing peanuts?
Those thing are static as all get out.
A pause for the COZ is offline  
Old May 5, 2014, 07:18 PM   #21
Beagle333
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2012
Location: Auburn, AL.
Posts: 2,332
You know.... packing peanuts really are the most "static-ey" things I can think of! It might work!

One fellow did say he used white, since he didn't have black, and it did work okay for him, and he also said yellow did not work. But that was one man's testing. I'd try the white first and see. It won't take many to know.
__________________
.
.
.
Have a Colt and a smile.
Beagle333 is offline  
Old May 6, 2014, 02:26 PM   #22
A pause for the COZ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 11, 2012
Location: Braham, Minnesota
Posts: 1,314
I think I found my new way to coat!!!
The white BB's seem to work fine. The more I did the better I got at figuring out the right amount of bullets/BB's and powder.

They are in fact not as Purdy as the gun sprayed ones. But who cares?
This gets a bunch coated fast with no mess.
I may still use my sprayer for my 223 suff. maybe.....

Thanks for sharing this.



A pause for the COZ is offline  
Old May 6, 2014, 06:32 PM   #23
Beagle333
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2012
Location: Auburn, AL.
Posts: 2,332
I was using the 8 oz CoolWhip container, but I was worried about the lid coming lose during shaking. And I found these at Publix for $1.52 each. They are made to store CDs and I guess since CDs are outdated, they are cheap! Anyway, it looked like something great for tumbling. The whole thing is made of #5 plastic and it has the same snap closure on the back too, so the top comes off for easy bullet picking. I figure it'll hold about 2-300 at a time. It looked great for mold/die storage too, so I bought 6 of em.


And after studying my first ones, I'm thinking the powder should be used as lightly as you can get by with, then add more if needed while shaking. The bullets shouldn't look like they got it clumped on there. It's easy to add more powder, as you can throw them back in there and shake again if you don't like it. (unlike spraying). It's tougher to add enough bullets to get it back down to the right mix if you got too much powder in the bowl.
But I definitely am thinking this is where powder coating is heading.
__________________
.
.
.
Have a Colt and a smile.

Last edited by Beagle333; May 6, 2014 at 06:43 PM.
Beagle333 is offline  
Old May 7, 2014, 02:31 PM   #24
stubbicatt
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 15, 2007
Posts: 1,707
Do you fellas have to lube your coated bullets before forcing them thru the Lee Die?

Is this method better than the old lubrisizer and alox in the grease groove method?

Last edited by stubbicatt; May 7, 2014 at 02:39 PM.
stubbicatt is offline  
Old May 7, 2014, 04:15 PM   #25
oldpapps
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 22, 2011
Location: Middle America
Posts: 518
stubbicatt,

Two questions.

First. Some will give a little spritz with one of those spray lubes. I don't (so far). I have found that one of my molds drops bullets with my sleceted alloy a lot larger that I want to end up with and I run those bullets in my old Lyman 450 luber-sizer. (I cleaned out and washed all of the lube out.) After sizing, I 'Powder Coat' and don't size after. I have a new mold coming and it may require a change in my sequence.

Second. As I see it there is need and room for both ways. I'm too old/lazy to cast all of the lead pistol bullets I use and will continue buying them from Missouri Bullet. However, normally lubed bullets run out of speed quickly. 'Powder Coated' cast bullets push this speed limit far faster than I shoot my jacketed bullets in comparable chamberings. Maybe I should elaborate a little. I load up a cast and lubed bullet for a rifle. With my limited expertise, I will start leading at 1200 FPS and get much worse the faster I push the bullet. I'm exceeding the speed I can get quickly. But with a 'Powder Coated' bullet, I know of (and trust in the claims) velocities in excess of 3200 FPS with no leading or other degradation.

Do I need to 'Powder Coat' my 200 grain SWC 45s? No, not unless I want to add a little color to them. Will I coat my 300 BlackOuts, yep.

Hope this helped.

Enjoy,

OSOK
oldpapps is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.12346 seconds with 8 queries