Imperial Wax Help

[Fox1]

I've read a lot of praises here and from other reloaders for Imperial Sizing Die Wax so I ordered some with my last batch of bullets.
I am just setting up a brand new set of Hornady New Dimension dies in .308 WIN so I thought this would be the best time to test it.

I cleaned out the dies then got everything set up and snugged down. I swiped my finger across the Imperial wax then rubbed it all over the case, top to bottom, and tried to full-length re-size it but the further the case went in, the tighter it got.
The case was in VERY tight (3/4 of the way in) and I had just decided that I was going to be pulling a case so I backed it out and it did come out intact.
I re-lubed it and ran it all the way in. I was actually standing up, both hands on the handle of the press BOUNCING it to get the case all the way in. I could hear the wood on my bench creaking. I had to pull really hard but the case came out intact. I decided it was because it was a new, clean die and didn't have enough lube and it would "ease up" as I ran more cases through. I was the same thing for the next 4 cases. I very forcibly rammed them through and thought each one would get stuck. They all came out in one piece and they all fit the chamber of my rifle but it was way too much work.

(I do have to hand it to Imperial - Every other time I've pulled that hard to get a case out of a die, the rim always stripped off and I had a stuck case to pull.)

I pulled my die and cleaned it with gun scrubber and then blasted it with a can of air to dry it out again then I rolled 4 cases on my RCBS lube pad with RCBS case lube. All 4 of them went in and out just fine; one handed, actually.

I have tried the Hornady 1-Shot spray lube and didn't like it.
I like the results of the RCBS case lube, but I HATE all the wipe down and cleaning after they are re-sized.
I was really hoping the Imperial would live up to it's reputation.

Everything I've read says, "Just wipe the case down then run it through."
I've even seen some members here say that they only lube every 3rd case with Imperial and it works just great.

Am I doing something wrong here?

[Tex S]

Sounds strange, but I would wait until the die gets a good layer of wax in it before I gave up.

[Shane Tuttle]

Am I doing something wrong here?

Well, um, I don't think it's wise to force a square peg in a round hole using 300 yard-tons of torque on your press.

Did you use the same cleaning agents the first time around as you did the second?
Is the brass you're sizing dirty? Are they polished?

If you're using the New Dimension Die set, IIRC they claim the Titanium Nitride sizing die requires NO lube. I personally hate my 9mm set because it does almost the same thing on a smaller scale. I would mic out the dimension of the sizing die to see if it's out of spec. Hornady had to send another one to me for similar problems you're having.

[Fox1]

Yes, I did use the same cleaner each time.
I have always sprayed my new dies down with Gun Scrubber and wiped them down then used them.

The Titanium Nitride dies don't require case lube but they are only for straight-walled shells like pistol shells.
The rifle dies still require the use of case lube.
I can't see the die being out of spec because all nine cases that I've run through it will chamber in my rifle.
Only the ones lubed with Imperial are giving me fits.
The ones lubed in the RCBS case lube go through just fine.

ETA: These cases have been tumbled clean.

[Farmland]

This stuff has a pretty nice fan base, though I will admit I like the RCBS lube. The only case I ever stuck I changed to some Lyman lube and on the fourth case I stuck one real good. Since that time I have used the RCBS lube with no failures yet. I expect given some more time I will someday stick a case even with this lube.

While research info on lubes I did run across the following comment concerning this product.

I recently noticed that some shooters store this product in a warmer environment that my reloading room. This "extra" temperature makes Imperial Sizing Die Wax become greasy - even oily, and that reduces the effectiveness of this product.

I can't tell you if that is true or not but it did come from this site.

http://www.larrywillis.com/Imperial.html

[Sport45]

I guess I'm still in the dark ages too. I use Lyman case lube on an old Lyman lube pad for all my bottleneck rifle cases and never have to force one in like you described. Even resizing '06 to 7.7Jap doesn't take whole lot of force.

[Fox1]

Tried again.

Tex S opined that the die may need to get some more wax built up on it.
I thought about that and decided to disassemble the die and clean it again. Before I put the decapping pin back in, I swabbed down the inside of the die with a light coat of Imperial Wax then ran a clean, dry patch through it and put the Zip-Spindle with the decapping pin in and tried again.
Light coat of Imperial and I was getting cases hitting a lot of resistance at only 3/4 of the way in.

Gave up, disassembled, cleaned, rolled 4 cases in RCBS case lube and ran them all right through. All 4 of them chamber great too.

*sighs*
I am kind of disappointed.
I had pretty high expectations for Imperial but the actual results (so far) aren't looking good.

I'll wait a few days and see if any Imperial uses offer something that I'm missing, but it's looking like I might be making myself a $7.50 candle out of this tin.

[Tex S]

If you opt to go the candle route, I recommend sprinkling in some Shooters Choice FP-10 gun oil. You see, FP-10 smells just like cinnamon, and when added to a candle it would make a great gift for the wife or girlfriend.

[Dr. Strangelove]

You know, I used Unique case lube (kind of like Imperial) for a while years ago as a replacement for the "roll on the lube pad" method. I never did get the benefits I read about, and about pulled the top off a workbench several times just resizing .270 Win.

I switched to Hornady One Shot spray lube and couldn't be happier. I don't doubt for a minute that Imperial is great for some folks, as Unique is as well; I just personally get better results from One Shot.

One thing I noticed, for years I didn't have a tumbler, once I started tumbling my brass before resizing, it made all the difference in the world. Spray some One Shot on a sparkly clean piece of brass and it goes into the die like it was made of butter.

[Christchild]

I'm one of the Imperial Sizing Wax fans. I use it exclusively, and .270 Win. exclusively (as far as BottleNeck cases), but I also Prep and Load my Dad's 25/06 and 45/70. Every Die on the shelf is Hornady Custom Grade New Dimension, other than my Forster Neck Size Die in .270 Win. and I've NEVER had any problems with stuck cases. Clean the Die every so often to keep the accumulated wax under control, and have never had a problem. I tumble cases AFTER I resize, with a few exceptions that are commonplace to meticulous Handloaders like myself, and quite a few others here.

EXCEPTIONS: Eject a fired case and it hits the ground... Buying "Once Fired" brass... Someone gives You brass... Always tumble, because almost all grit will reak havoc on Your Dies... Other than these exceptions, I always tumble cases squeeky clean after all Prep.

I could only hope to be able to give You the answer to Your problem, but I'm stumped, especially when the spray lubes work fine. As mentioned previously, a little warmth will soften the Imperial Wax, but I've found no difference in it's performance, even when necking down my .270 Win. Nosler brass to 25/06 Rem. for my Dad, I've had incredible results with it.

[Sport45]

Tex S,

If it doesn't work for case sizing you can always use the Imperial Sizing Wax to waterproof your boots. I hear Kiwi Mink Oil is the same stuff.

[amamnn]

If you are having trouble getting ISW to work--why not E-mal Redding and ask for some help---you must be missing something. I've used about every FL die lube there is and I never found anything that works better or easier than ISW, when used properly. My next best lube would be Hornady's Unique.

[wxl]

Imperial wax is all I have used for over a decade, still on same container and looks full.

Does not take much, slightest swipe on finger then on brass. Should not be able to tell looking at surface in can any sign of wax gone

[Unclenick]

This is totally weird. I've used Imperial for years and never had anything but smooth sizing. My first reaction was he must have the wrong die or the expander was up too near the neck, but then it works with other lubes. Very odd, indeed. I dip my finger in the wax and smear it up the length of the case. Perhaps he wiped it on with a rag and got it too thin?


Tuttle8,

I think the no-lube claim only applies to sizing dies for straight and nearly straight cases that have the TiNi coated sizing rings. I'm not aware of any bottleneck case that lets you get away with no lube, not even in carbide. Too much contact area.

[Fox1]

After resizing a lot of cases last night then going to bed with the whole problem nagging at me while I tried to fall asleep, one thing occurred to me, but it still doesn't help much.

I have 2 .308 Win rifles (Mauser and a Remington) and almost all of the cases I was resizing were fired from only one of them. The chamber in the Mauser is obviously a touch bigger than than the chamber in the Remington because the Mauser's cases all took more force to full length re-size, regardless of the case lube used. The cases from the Remington full length re-sized fairly easily in comparison. I said this didn't help much because it was harder to re-size cases fired in the Mauser regardless of which case lube I used.

I'm going to experiment again tonight with some BRAND NEW, in the bag Winchester .308 cases that I have and see what the results are.

[flashhole]

I will echo Nick's sentiments. I've used Imperial on 357 Mag, 30-30, 25-06, 300 Win Mag, 7mm Rem Mag, 243 Win, 221 Fireball, 223 Rem, and 45-70 and never had even a hint of a problem. Must be something else.

What kind of press are you using? Do you have a picture of your set up?

[Nnobby45]

Too bad you don't like One Shot. It dries on, and is non messy. Midway also makes a good spray lube.

Imperial wax is great for sizing a few cases for test purposes, or using a case or two to adjust a die. For production, the other lubes are better IMO. Waxing each by hand is a lengthy process.

One properly lubed case will lubricate the inside of the die just fine.

Adjust your die down until it contacts shell holder at top of stroke. Back it out a full turn or so. Now run the lubed case up there again and see if it goes. Then adjust die down in 1/4 turn increments or so until you get the sizing you want. What you've described is beyond any normal loading problem that I've personally encountered over the decades.

NOTE:

Consider the possibility that you've used TOO MUCH lube.

It would take a lot of excess lube, since normally when that happens, the lube is forced into the shoulder area of the die and the pressure dents the shoulder--at least with typical lubes. Imperial Wax may be different and create too much pressure for the case to enter the die as it pushes all that lube forward creating more pressure and less room.

I'd look at that possibility, since your solution was to keep adding lube to the die and cases.

[Fox1]

Re-sizing once fired (by me) R-P, Winchester and FC cases.

Using an old Texan press (try to find one of those!) and brand new Hornady New Dimension dies.

Is there a possibility that it's the press?
I discounted that because the press just pushes the case up and pulls it down. A friend of mine gave me the press for free, seemed like a good price.

Here are a couple of pictures I took of my bench (with the press attached) after I built it.

[wncchester]

Using Imperial, I have reformed hundreds of military surplus and commercial .30-06 to .243 and .22-250, easily, one handed. No creaks or moans from the bench. ???

[Shane Tuttle]

Originally Posted by Unclenick

Tuttle8,
I think the no-lube claim only applies to sizing dies for straight and nearly straight cases that have the TiNi coated sizing rings. I'm not aware of any bottleneck case that lets you get away with no lube, not even in carbide. Too much contact area.

Yeah, that's why I added the disclaimer of if I remember correctly. I knew they staked their claim on it for pistol, but didn't know if it was for bottleneck cartridges.

I'm not sold on the press being the issue. If you used the same press with better results with the other lubes, I'd say that would rule out the press. But I'm willing to bet a nickel I found out your problem...

I think some of Hornady's dies are vented. I'm wondering if Imperial provides such a tight seal compared to the other lubes. Combine that with a possible vent issue with your die and you can cause it to lock up. Take a gander at the die and see if you have a vent hole. If so, try to run some degreaser through it.

[Nnobby45]

I think some of Hornady's dies are vented. I'm wondering if Imperial provides such a tight seal compared to the other lubes. Combine that with a possible vent issue with your die and you can cause it to lock up

I think you're on the right track. The vent is for EXCESS lube. If the case was actually stuck, say, because of not enough lube, it wouldn't extract. Removing the case from the die relieves that pressure and allows it to extract.

NOTE:

Consider the possibility that you've used TOO MUCH lube.

It would take a lot of excess lube, since normally when that happens, the lube is forced into the shoulder area of the die and the pressure dents the shoulder--at least with typical lubes. Imperial Wax may be different and create too much pressure for the case to enter the die as it pushes all that lube forward creating more pressure and less room..........

[MADISON]

I was having a stuck case problem [3 out of 10 were sticking] and, went to Hornady's "Unique Grease". No more stuck cases.

[GeauxTide]

1. Mauser must have a long headspace.
2. That is one nasty looking press that doesn't look like it will provide much leverage.
3. I've never had this problem in 30 years of using Imperial or Hornady lubes.
4. I used RCBS, Lyman, and Lee dies. Contact Hornady and complain.

[Unclenick]

I like the vent idea. If he is sealing compress air in there, it wouldn't help. A less viscous lube might let the air leak by while a more viscous one seals it as the case mouth reaches the neck of the die.

I know you've cleaned that die a lot already, but try disassembling it and letting it sit in mineral spirits overnight, then hit the vent holes with gun scrubber or some other straw-in-can lube or solvent and see if you can blow liquid through the vents?

[togojeff]

I just tried ISW for the first time yesterday and no problems whatsover.
50 .308 Win cases sized flawlessly. I used an old 1973 RCBS Grp "A" die
that doesn't appear to have a vent hole anywhere and didn't have any
problems in that regard either.