9mm 4.1 gr bullseye and 90gr hp won't cycle gun?

lomaxanderson · February 29, 2008, 07:25 PM

made a few rounds up and low and behold they won't cycle the gun

what could be the problem...cci primers 4.1be 90 gr hp is starting recommendation..one freind says crimp more other says more powder and another says heavier bullet...what do you guys think

somerled · February 29, 2008, 10:15 PM

It used to be common to run across data for 88 or 90 grain JHP bullets for the 9mm. I loaded some a few years ago after I traded off a .380--I had all those short-stubby bullets on the shelf. I see why many manual publishers dropped them. The cartridges were so short and the bullets dead-ended into the feed ramps of everything I tried them in except a Browning Hi-Power. I tried them in two Glocks I'd never had problems with before, a Glock 17 and 26, and had some good malfunction-clearing practice.

That most likely your primary problem--the cartridges are too short.

Dlr8 · February 29, 2008, 10:22 PM

My hornady manual has a starting load of 4.4 for 90gr bullets .. .might need to look on the web for an exact load ... seems yours might be a little too light

FM12 · February 29, 2008, 10:37 PM

I've loaded 2.3 BAZILLION 9mm rounds, so maybe I can help.

The 90 grainers are a little light, and the charge is a little weak also.

Try this. Up your loads .2 grains, load 5 rounds, up .2 more load five more, and one more time, .2 grains. I think you can safely use up to 5.4 grains of Bullseye, as I use 5.0 with 115 grain bullets. Try this to see if you can get a load to work your gun.

If no luck by then, might have to use heavier bullets, get some at least 115 grains. I shoot mostly Zero brand 115 JHP. I LOVE them, and all other Zero ammo and bullets. Never dissapointed.

If, while you're raising the load you see signs of high pressure, STOP, and start again, with 115 gr minimum.

This can be very frustrating, but also very rewarding!

BUT...when in doubt, STOP and seek help like you did here. BTW, getr a good loading manual (Speer, Nosler, Sierra, etc) or two' Read the front and make sure you understand what you are doing. Email me if I can help further, [email protected] .

Visit us and join over at www.reloads.com lots of way smarter than me over there. They love to help!

I'm FM12, and I approved this post.

T. O'Heir · February 29, 2008, 11:19 PM

What pistol? Mind you, 90 grain bullets are usually for the .380 ACP. The lightest 9mm bullet I have data for or have seen data for is a 95 grain bullet. Alliant says 5.5 grains of Bullseye is max for them. Starting loads are 10% less. That about 4.9 grains.
If you don't have a manual, you need one.

lomaxanderson · March 1, 2008, 08:41 AM

it's in a smith wesson 910 that had never failed till now

went with the 90 grain cause i wanted to load 380 as well and have a common projectile...i figure less is better to start KISS you know...brass had powder burn all the way down to the rim so i was thinking that it might not be sealing completely...i thought about how short the round was but the gun chambered them fine

using lymans 48th manual

CowTowner · March 1, 2008, 08:57 AM

My GF got 1000 9mm with 90 grain FMJTC bullets and her Jericho 941 wouldn't cycle them either. I have found my CZ-75BD likes them OK so we traded 115 Grain loads to be be loaded for her 90 grain.
The problem she is having with the light loads is due to the recoil springs being too heavy. That why she got the 1000 for $100. The buddy that loaded them could no longer shoot them in his new gun without swapping the recoil springs.

FM12 · March 1, 2008, 10:15 AM

Lomax, keep in mind that there has to be enough recoil to work the slide to get the gun to run right. Thge recoil is a result of the round being fired. It takes aminimum of recoil to overcome the recoil spring resistance and asllow the slide to come back to make the whole process work. Your initial combination of powder and bullet just aint getting that done.

Try 5.0 grains as your starting load, and see how it runs. Let us know how it works.

As for .380 I shoot 115 grain with 2.5 grains of Bullseye. What .380 pistol do you have?

Ken

rg1 · March 1, 2008, 10:57 AM

Midway's 9MM LoadMap indicates you could go up to 4.6-4.7 grains of Bullseye with the 90gr HP bullet with no problems. They listed overall length with HornadyXTP at1.080", Nosler HP at 1.050" Sierra JHP at 1.010", and Speer Gold Dot 90gr at 1.050" in their tests using RP cases and Win SP primers. I have no experience with 90gr bullets but just passing along info.
Horn. 90 XTP-4.7gr Bullseye--1289fps--30100psi
Nosler 90gr HP--4.7--1273fps--29200psi
Sierra 90JHP--4.7--1304fps--32400psi
Speer Gold Dot 90gr.--4.7--1269fps--31100psi
Work up from your 4.1 grains until it cycles the action watching for pressure signs!

lomaxanderson · March 1, 2008, 02:19 PM

I think i'll try a larger powder charge...my manual list 5.2 as max?Tha bullet is sierra 8100 and the 380 a bersa...i'm probally too conserivitve on the powder and overly concerned about blowing up my gun just to save a few bucks on ammo

...i carry 147 gr hollowpoints in it normally and would like to work up some of these soon ...just looking to shoot cheaply

FM12 · March 1, 2008, 02:23 PM

Try the 5.0 first. The S&W can handle it!

FM12

MakarovFan · March 1, 2008, 08:54 PM

FM12 - any idea What kind of velocity do you get with the 115gr and 5.0 grains of bullseye? I have been loading my 9's with 4.4 grains of bullseye to get around 1100 fps for plinking purpose.
I have used Herco in the past and not a real big fan of this powder.
I have never loaded anything lighter than 115 grain for my 9's.

FM12 · March 1, 2008, 10:47 PM

Hi, MakFan, no idea of the velocity as I dont own a chronograph. All I've shot is 115 or heavier. I used to buy Zero brand bullets at the factory, and got addicted to them. 115 is a pretty good all round weight for me, anyway...good accuracy and not a lot of recoil.

I;ve never used Herco, period, but I really like Bullseye, although some think it too dirty. I've never been dissapointed with it.

Some load with Blue Dot, by Alliant, but I would recommend at least 125 or heavier bullets with BD.

Unique would be another possibility, or mabye WW231.

Let me know how things go, FM12

lomaxanderson · April 1, 2008, 03:05 PM

Ok so I loaded up some more of the 90 grainers to use them up....loaded from 4.1 to 4.9 in .2 increments and none would cycle the gun reliably...

also got some hornady 147 grain hollowpoints xtp and ran them with 3.6 of BE and they shot fine...I guess I could use the rest of the 90"s for malfunction drills

...

February 29, 2008, 07:25 PM	#1
lomaxanderson Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2006 Location: La. Posts: 349	9mm 4.1 gr bullseye and 90gr hp won't cycle gun? made a few rounds up and low and behold they won't cycle the gun what could be the problem...cci primers 4.1be 90 gr hp is starting recommendation..one freind says crimp more other says more powder and another says heavier bullet...what do you guys think

February 29, 2008, 10:37 PM	#4
FM12 Senior Member Join Date: February 5, 2007 Location: Monroeville, Alabama Posts: 1,683	I've loaded 2.3 BAZILLION 9mm rounds, so maybe I can help. The 90 grainers are a little light, and the charge is a little weak also. Try this. Up your loads .2 grains, load 5 rounds, up .2 more load five more, and one more time, .2 grains. I think you can safely use up to 5.4 grains of Bullseye, as I use 5.0 with 115 grain bullets. Try this to see if you can get a load to work your gun. If no luck by then, might have to use heavier bullets, get some at least 115 grains. I shoot mostly Zero brand 115 JHP. I LOVE them, and all other Zero ammo and bullets. Never dissapointed. If, while you're raising the load you see signs of high pressure, STOP, and start again, with 115 gr minimum. This can be very frustrating, but also very rewarding! BUT...when in doubt, STOP and seek help like you did here. BTW, getr a good loading manual (Speer, Nosler, Sierra, etc) or two' Read the front and make sure you understand what you are doing. Email me if I can help further, [email protected] . Visit us and join over at www.reloads.com lots of way smarter than me over there. They love to help! I'm FM12, and I approved this post. Last edited by FM12; February 29, 2008 at 10:46 PM. Reason: addtl info

February 29, 2008, 11:19 PM	#5
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	What pistol? Mind you, 90 grain bullets are usually for the .380 ACP. The lightest 9mm bullet I have data for or have seen data for is a 95 grain bullet. Alliant says 5.5 grains of Bullseye is max for them. Starting loads are 10% less. That about 4.9 grains. If you don't have a manual, you need one. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

March 1, 2008, 08:41 AM	#6
lomaxanderson Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2006 Location: La. Posts: 349	it's in a smith wesson 910 that had never failed till nowwent with the 90 grain cause i wanted to load 380 as well and have a common projectile...i figure less is better to start KISS you know...brass had powder burn all the way down to the rim so i was thinking that it might not be sealing completely...i thought about how short the round was but the gun chambered them fine using lymans 48th manual

March 1, 2008, 08:57 AM	#7
CowTowner Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2007 Location: Cowtown of course! Posts: 1,747	My GF got 1000 9mm with 90 grain FMJTC bullets and her Jericho 941 wouldn't cycle them either. I have found my CZ-75BD likes them OK so we traded 115 Grain loads to be be loaded for her 90 grain. The problem she is having with the light loads is due to the recoil springs being too heavy. That why she got the 1000 for $100. The buddy that loaded them could no longer shoot them in his new gun without swapping the recoil springs. __________________ NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, Home Firearms Safety, Pistol and Rifle Instructor *“Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life......”* President John F. Kennedy

February 29, 2008, 10:15 PM	#2
somerled Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2005 Location: eastern Kansas Posts: 603	It used to be common to run across data for 88 or 90 grain JHP bullets for the 9mm. I loaded some a few years ago after I traded off a .380--I had all those short-stubby bullets on the shelf. I see why many manual publishers dropped them. The cartridges were so short and the bullets dead-ended into the feed ramps of everything I tried them in except a Browning Hi-Power. I tried them in two Glocks I'd never had problems with before, a Glock 17 and 26, and had some good malfunction-clearing practice. That most likely your primary problem--the cartridges are too short.

February 29, 2008, 10:22 PM	#3
Dlr8 Member Join Date: December 6, 2007 Posts: 34	My hornady manual has a starting load of 4.4 for 90gr bullets .. .might need to look on the web for an exact load ... seems yours might be a little too light

March 1, 2008, 10:15 AM	#8
FM12 Senior Member Join Date: February 5, 2007 Location: Monroeville, Alabama Posts: 1,683	Lomax, keep in mind that there has to be enough recoil to work the slide to get the gun to run right. Thge recoil is a result of the round being fired. It takes aminimum of recoil to overcome the recoil spring resistance and asllow the slide to come back to make the whole process work. Your initial combination of powder and bullet just aint getting that done. Try 5.0 grains as your starting load, and see how it runs. Let us know how it works. As for .380 I shoot 115 grain with 2.5 grains of Bullseye. What .380 pistol do you have? Ken

March 1, 2008, 10:57 AM	#9
rg1 Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2001 Posts: 1,125	Midway's 9MM LoadMap indicates you could go up to 4.6-4.7 grains of Bullseye with the 90gr HP bullet with no problems. They listed overall length with HornadyXTP at1.080", Nosler HP at 1.050" Sierra JHP at 1.010", and Speer Gold Dot 90gr at 1.050" in their tests using RP cases and Win SP primers. I have no experience with 90gr bullets but just passing along info. Horn. 90 XTP-4.7gr Bullseye--1289fps--30100psi Nosler 90gr HP--4.7--1273fps--29200psi Sierra 90JHP--4.7--1304fps--32400psi Speer Gold Dot 90gr.--4.7--1269fps--31100psi Work up from your 4.1 grains until it cycles the action watching for pressure signs!

March 1, 2008, 02:19 PM	#10
lomaxanderson Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2006 Location: La. Posts: 349	I think i'll try a larger powder charge...my manual list 5.2 as max?Tha bullet is sierra 8100 and the 380 a bersa...i'm probally too conserivitve on the powder and overly concerned about blowing up my gun just to save a few bucks on ammo...i carry 147 gr hollowpoints in it normally and would like to work up some of these soon ...just looking to shoot cheaply

March 1, 2008, 02:23 PM	#11
FM12 Senior Member Join Date: February 5, 2007 Location: Monroeville, Alabama Posts: 1,683	Try the 5.0 first. The S&W can handle it! FM12

March 1, 2008, 08:54 PM	#12
MakarovFan Member Join Date: June 21, 2006 Location: Eastern Ohio Posts: 94	FM12 - any idea What kind of velocity do you get with the 115gr and 5.0 grains of bullseye? I have been loading my 9's with 4.4 grains of bullseye to get around 1100 fps for plinking purpose. I have used Herco in the past and not a real big fan of this powder. I have never loaded anything lighter than 115 grain for my 9's.

March 1, 2008, 10:47 PM	#13
FM12 Senior Member Join Date: February 5, 2007 Location: Monroeville, Alabama Posts: 1,683	Hi, MakFan, no idea of the velocity as I dont own a chronograph. All I've shot is 115 or heavier. I used to buy Zero brand bullets at the factory, and got addicted to them. 115 is a pretty good all round weight for me, anyway...good accuracy and not a lot of recoil. I;ve never used Herco, period, but I really like Bullseye, although some think it too dirty. I've never been dissapointed with it. Some load with Blue Dot, by Alliant, but I would recommend at least 125 or heavier bullets with BD. Unique would be another possibility, or mabye WW231. Let me know how things go, FM12

April 1, 2008, 03:05 PM	#14
lomaxanderson Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2006 Location: La. Posts: 349	range report... Ok so I loaded up some more of the 90 grainers to use them up....loaded from 4.1 to 4.9 in .2 increments and none would cycle the gun reliably... also got some hornady 147 grain hollowpoints xtp and ran them with 3.6 of BE and they shot fine...I guess I could use the rest of the 90"s for malfunction drills ...