The F difference

grubbylabs · October 14, 2009, 12:21 AM

My owners guide says to use FFG powder but the shop where I bought the gun said to use FFFG it is real BP. Is there going to be much of a difference?

Smokin_Gun · October 14, 2009, 12:24 AM

If you let me know what gun you have it would help some... :O)

It'll make a differance ... by me it could be said anyway. Much? Depends on the shooter I have to say.
(not much, still accurate)

grubbylabs · October 14, 2009, 12:27 AM

It is a investarms .54 Trade Rifle.

Smokin_Gun · October 14, 2009, 12:29 AM

Stick to ffg KIK, Goex, Swiss, ect. black powder...

grubbylabs · October 14, 2009, 12:31 AM

The stuff they sold me is a German import I cant remember the name right off.

Rusty.it · October 14, 2009, 03:20 AM

The name is Wano?
Probably named like the worst powder produced in europe

Here we all use swiss powder, (like we all use vithavuori like smokeless) the cleanest and hot european black powder
In italy the price is pratically the same, for Swiss, German; French, there is a imported product from a east europe country that i don't remember wich, more cheaper but it isn't always available, so the shooter choice the always present on the desk shop Swiss powder

(i can't make comparision with geox or other USA powder why aren't imported here)
ciao
Rusty

darkgael · October 14, 2009, 04:14 AM

Rusty.it: If you don't mind, what does a pound of Swiss (or a kilo or etto or...?) cost you in Italy?
Just curious.
Pete

B.L.E. · October 14, 2009, 05:58 AM

Quote:

The stuff they sold me is a German import I cant remember the name right off.

Schutzen?

FFFg will work, especially with the lighter loads.

It's all the same stuff, just smaller granules. During the manufacturing prossess, black powder is compressed into cakes and the cake is ground up and then the different grain sizes are separated by screens. The stuff that falls through the finest screen is 4F or higher. I have heard of 7F but it's not easy to find.

mykeal · October 14, 2009, 06:03 AM

It's probably Schuetzen. Decent powder, competes with Goex, less expensive than Swiss.

As to your original question: use 2f with any rifle larger than .50 caliber and 3f with pistols, revolvers and any rifle smaller than .50 caliber. Either will work well in a .50.

The difference is measurable but not remarkable.

Pahoo · October 14, 2009, 09:38 AM

Some Buckskinner buddies of mine, swear by FFFG on their .54's and you will insult them by suggesting anything other than real BP, in Traditionals. "They" claim to get better performance and suspect that in part, it's due to burning as much powder in the tube than outside the tube. They do hunt with this load as well and don't just punch paper. Cannot argue, nor would I, with their success. ..

Be Safe !!!

Rusty.it · October 14, 2009, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Rusty.it: If you don't mind, what does a pound of Swiss (or a kilo or etto or...?) cost you in Italy?

At the present time i pay the swiss 60 euro for a kilo, but i'm lucky to live near "Repubblica of San Marino" that is a small indipentent nation iside Italy, there is a trade agreement with italian government, so is normal buy gun ammo and powder there, i know that in other part of Italy a bottle of swiss black goes from 70 to 90 euro kg (i think at present the change rate is around1,4USd for 1EU)
ciao
Rusty

grubbylabs · October 14, 2009, 10:48 AM

Shcuetzen is the stuff. So I will be fine shooting the 3F though the gun, it wont explode in my face or some thing like that?

Andy Griffith · October 14, 2009, 10:58 AM

If I am correct, there is 2.2 pounds to the kilo.

That is roughly 31 Euros a pound, and right now a Euro is worth $1.489.

That translates to $45.88 a pound!!!

I think I'll stick with Goex for $13.10 a pound (by the case), which euqals 19.35 Euros per kilo.
Or $10. a pound for the Brazillian imported stuff by the case of 25, which I've heard that is good, but a bit dirtier than Goex. (I haven't tried it yet.)

grubbylabs · October 14, 2009, 11:02 AM

I think I was 14.00 a pound for what I just bought.

mykeal · October 14, 2009, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Shcuetzen is the stuff. So I will be fine shooting the 3F though the gun,

Yes.

Quote:

it wont explode in my face or some thing like that?

No.

grubbylabs · October 14, 2009, 01:31 PM

Cool thanks for all the help, I am used to another archery forum where every one attacks each other rather than helps each other. So this is a nice change.

Rusty.it · October 15, 2009, 07:36 AM

Quote:

That translates to $45.88 a pound!!!

Yes sir, may be you don't think that, but life here is expensive, many things produced here like firearms replica is cheaper for you than me, and the factory are just around the corner for me

A colt navy made by Uberty cost to me 270 euros, at your gived change are 402$, something less for a pietta about 220 euros
ciao
Rusty
(PS 1lt of gasoline in italy is sell at present time for about 1,3euro, more than 7$ gallon)

Springfield Kid · October 15, 2009, 08:40 AM

You would find a 54 will shoot tighter groups with 2F powder .
Isn`t Wano hippo poop ?

catman1 · October 24, 2009, 06:59 PM

You would find a 54 will shoot tighter groups with 2F powder .

I agree..

eastbank · October 25, 2009, 02:04 AM

i use 60grs of fff in a 58 cal. mini ball rifle and like it better than ff, seems to burn cleaner and as my rifle is bored tight it makes it easier to load for repeat shots, just my take on it. eastbank.

Pahoo · October 25, 2009, 09:55 AM

Breech loaders provide us with the opertunity to put in some range-time. M/L's on the other hand, demands it, to a certain extent. It's obvious that FFG adn FFFG are both suitable and each one of us has to measure it's own performance. The original post asks if there is a difference? Both are suitable and it's up to you to determine the difference. Currently I am using FFG and that's only because I have more of it than FFFG. I have developed shot-strings for both, in a target and hunting load and both give me acceptable performance. However, I do prefer FFFG. You have to put in your own rang-time before you can accept anything.

Range-Time is fun time!!! ....

Be Safe !!!

Double J · October 25, 2009, 09:18 PM

With the Goex Black Powder there is not much if any granual or weight per volume difference in their FFG or FFFG. Some brands have more noticeable size differences.
My standard load is 100 grains FFFG Goex with a 348 grain Powerbelt bullet in my .54 T/C Hawkin.

October 14, 2009, 12:21 AM	#1
grubbylabs Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 2009 Location: Hansen Idaho Posts: 1,465	The F difference My owners guide says to use FFG powder but the shop where I bought the gun said to use FFFG it is real BP. Is there going to be much of a difference?

October 14, 2009, 12:24 AM	#2
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	What's the gun? If you let me know what gun you have it would help some... :O) It'll make a differance ... by me it could be said anyway. Much? Depends on the shooter I have to say. (not much, still accurate) __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

October 14, 2009, 12:29 AM	#4
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	Stick to ffg KIK, Goex, Swiss, ect. black powder... __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

October 14, 2009, 04:14 AM	#7
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	$ Rusty.it: If you don't mind, what does a pound of Swiss (or a kilo or etto or...?) cost you in Italy? Just curious. Pete __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member

October 14, 2009, 10:58 AM	#13
Andy Griffith Senior Member Join Date: May 14, 2009 Location: Macon Co. NC Posts: 591	If I am correct, there is 2.2 pounds to the kilo. That is roughly 31 Euros a pound, and right now a Euro is worth $1.489. That translates to $45.88 a pound!!! I think I'll stick with Goex for $13.10 a pound (by the case), which euqals 19.35 Euros per kilo. Or $10. a pound for the Brazillian imported stuff by the case of 25, which I've heard that is good, but a bit dirtier than Goex. (I haven't tried it yet.) __________________ Barney Fife: "Nip it, nip it, nip it!" Andy Griffith:"Oh now Barn'...."

October 14, 2009, 12:27 AM	#3
grubbylabs Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 2009 Location: Hansen Idaho Posts: 1,465	It is a investarms .54 Trade Rifle.

October 14, 2009, 12:31 AM	#5
grubbylabs Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 2009 Location: Hansen Idaho Posts: 1,465	The stuff they sold me is a German import I cant remember the name right off.

October 14, 2009, 03:20 AM	#6
Rusty.it Member Join Date: May 29, 2007 Posts: 50	The name is Wano? Probably named like the worst powder produced in europe Here we all use swiss powder, (like we all use vithavuori like smokeless) the cleanest and hot european black powder In italy the price is pratically the same, for Swiss, German; French, there is a imported product from a east europe country that i don't remember wich, more cheaper but it isn't always available, so the shooter choice the always present on the desk shop Swiss powder (i can't make comparision with geox or other USA powder why aren't imported here) ciao Rusty

October 14, 2009, 06:03 AM	#9
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	It's probably Schuetzen. Decent powder, competes with Goex, less expensive than Swiss. As to your original question: use 2f with any rifle larger than .50 caliber and 3f with pistols, revolvers and any rifle smaller than .50 caliber. Either will work well in a .50. The difference is measurable but not remarkable.

October 14, 2009, 09:38 AM	#10
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 8,783	Some Buckskinner buddies of mine, swear by FFFG on their .54's and you will insult them by suggesting anything other than real BP, in Traditionals. "They" claim to get better performance and suspect that in part, it's due to burning as much powder in the tube than outside the tube. They do hunt with this load as well and don't just punch paper. Cannot argue, nor would I, with their success. .. Be Safe !!!

October 14, 2009, 10:48 AM	#12
grubbylabs Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 2009 Location: Hansen Idaho Posts: 1,465	Shcuetzen is the stuff. So I will be fine shooting the 3F though the gun, it wont explode in my face or some thing like that?

October 14, 2009, 11:02 AM	#14
grubbylabs Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 2009 Location: Hansen Idaho Posts: 1,465	I think I was 14.00 a pound for what I just bought.

October 14, 2009, 01:31 PM	#16
grubbylabs Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 2009 Location: Hansen Idaho Posts: 1,465	Cool thanks for all the help, I am used to another archery forum where every one attacks each other rather than helps each other. So this is a nice change.

October 15, 2009, 08:40 AM	#18
Springfield Kid Member Join Date: September 29, 2009 Posts: 50	You would find a 54 will shoot tighter groups with 2F powder . Isn`t Wano hippo poop ?

October 24, 2009, 06:59 PM	#19
catman1 Junior Member Join Date: September 8, 2009 Posts: 6	You would find a 54 will shoot tighter groups with 2F powder . I agree..

October 25, 2009, 02:04 AM	#20
eastbank Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2008 Location: pa. Posts: 2,450	i use 60grs of fff in a 58 cal. mini ball rifle and like it better than ff, seems to burn cleaner and as my rifle is bored tight it makes it easier to load for repeat shots, just my take on it. eastbank.

October 25, 2009, 09:55 AM	#21
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 8,783	Breech loaders provide us with the opertunity to put in some range-time. M/L's on the other hand, demands it, to a certain extent. It's obvious that FFG adn FFFG are both suitable and each one of us has to measure it's own performance. The original post asks if there is a difference? Both are suitable and it's up to you to determine the difference. Currently I am using FFG and that's only because I have more of it than FFFG. I have developed shot-strings for both, in a target and hunting load and both give me acceptable performance. However, I do prefer FFFG. You have to put in your own rang-time before you can accept anything. Range-Time is fun time!!! .... Be Safe !!!

October 25, 2009, 09:18 PM	#22
Double J Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2007 Location: So. Illinois Posts: 547	With the Goex Black Powder there is not much if any granual or weight per volume difference in their FFG or FFFG. Some brands have more noticeable size differences. My standard load is 100 grains FFFG Goex with a 348 grain Powerbelt bullet in my .54 T/C Hawkin.