distances for pistol shooting? - Page 2

WESHOOT2 · January 5, 2005, 06:36 AM

'Ball' goes over 1700 yds..........

Ninjato · January 5, 2005, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Blue Heeler If all you have is a pistol then any range is what you'll shoot at. Practically, over 25 yards is rifle territory. That's not to say you can't hit anything at 50 yards or more with a pistol but they are running out of steam by then.

This is from FEDERAL's stat sheet. Note that a .44magnum hits harder at 100yrds than a .357 at 25yds.

The .357mag also hits harder at 100yds than a .45acp at 25yds.

From what information are you basing the fact that bullets lose their steam at 50yds?

Ninjato · January 5, 2005, 08:23 AM

Quote:

I still practice at 15 and 25 yards most of the time. What I have found that has helped me the most is dry firing at home. I dry fir a lot more than I fire at the range, and it is a lot cheaper. I learned to draw and acquire the target quickly, and the pull the trigger without moving the gun, which had been the most challenging part when trying to do it fast ? at least for me.

You would be surprised at how many people look at me w/ a look of "really?" when I tell them I dry fire all my guns for about 20-30 minutes a day minimum.

nandoaqui · January 5, 2005, 01:40 PM

Ninjato,

When I taught my kids and wife to shoot many years ago, I used the then old trick of loading the revolver with only three live rounds, not in consecutive chambers. When they pulled the trigger on an already fired case, they could readily see if they moved the gun. Later on, I started using snap caps mixed in with live rounds in pistol magazines.

Dry-firing, as you well know, is nothing more than the same exercise, just extended.

Some people do not realize that it is nearly impossible to tell whether a person moves the gun when firing live rounds – only the point of impact could tell the story. However, if the shot is off target, is it because the shooter moved the gun, or did not aim properly, or perhaps both?

Dry-firing can surely help to ‘train’ our muscles and concentration to pull or press the trigger without changing the sight picture – even when the sight picture is acquired quickly.

Just prior to my last IDPA match, I dry-fired for several days, about 15 minutes each session, concentrating on not moving the gun at all regardless of my stance. The day of the match, the three or four shooters who preceded me where shooting 9mm, were more accomplished competitors than I am, and I was watching them very attentively. When my turn came, I did my best to emulate their movements and was able to very quickly acquire the first target, some 10 yards away, and shoot it almost dead on.

BUT – the recoil of that first shot of the day startled me! I guess after dry-firing quite a bit and watching the other shooters with their 9mm, I completely forgot that my .45 ACP would get completely off target – big time. No problem, I got back on, shot that first target again as required, just missing my first shot, moved on to the next three targets, and did really well. As far as I know, a lot (most?) of the competitors do a lot of deliberate, constructive dry-firing. BTW, I will dry fire with several guns as they all help to develop the “don’t move the gun” objective.

Alex

osirus101 · January 10, 2005, 06:07 PM

A buddy of mine has shot in a six inch group at 100 yards with the ruger 454 and off hand to. i couldnt believe it if i didnt see it. i recently got one and i can do that at about 25 yards. Not quite a 100 but im working up to it.Takes alot of practice.

tomlj75 · January 13, 2005, 07:20 PM

I usually practice at 100 - 125 yards with my 480 ruger, the sights are far apart so it is easier to sight in at distance. just depends on the individual pistol
have fun

seb5 · January 13, 2005, 07:27 PM

Osirus101,

I'm surely not calling you a liar but I would have to see that one myself.

Desertscout1 · January 14, 2005, 11:35 AM

If you have a problem believing that, you need to get out more. 100+ yard handgun shooting is not remotely difficult. My SBH will EASILY hold 6-8" inch groups at 100 yards. 12" or so at 200. All of my Glocks will shoot 10-14" at 100 yards depending on which gun and which load. My BHP would hit a 30" disk at 200" meters about 80" of the time. Accurqacy is relative at longer distances meaning that you will not be shooting 1" groups at 200 yards but you would be surprised what a good accurate handgun can do at LONG range...like 4-600 yards.

Para Bellum · January 15, 2005, 04:47 PM

If you shoot for the sport go for staionary targets the size of an elephant at 500myds if you can.

If you shoot for defence (as I do):

1. take my advise as an attorney at law: At least where I live (Europe) it would be a hell of a job to convince a jury that you were acting in self-defence if you shot somebody more than 20m (22yds) away. You might spend years behind bars thinking about this.

2. 100yds (90m) with a handgun sounds great, but nobody will hit anything that moves effectively with a handgun at more than 30m (23yds), I bet. In a defence-situation I expect the threat to move rapidly. Just think of an attacking dog. I wouldn't even think of firing before a threat is at 10m (11yds) or closer. If he is stationary and e.g. threatening somebody else, I'd close in. You can learn to move and shoot in any IPSC-club etc.

3. You always have to check what is behind your target. Your bullets could miss or overpenetrate (with any gun/calibre). How could you even have an Idea of what's behind your target if your target is more than 20m (22yds) away?

Stay safe.

Handy · January 15, 2005, 04:52 PM

Para,

Your "advice" seems to lead one to the conclusion that one should never practice at a range longer than one might need in a fight.

So I'll ask: Do you think Olympic track sprinters never run farther than the 100 meters of their event? Or is it possible that the skills practiced at longer distance make one a better shooter at all ranges?

Ozzieman · January 15, 2005, 05:11 PM

What I tell people that I have worked with is, if you cant hold a 4 inch group, and thats off hand, ether hand, ether eye, and do it with 2 quickly placed rounds your to far away.
I dont care if you can take a walther PPKs and with one round hit the eye of a nedle at 100000 yards across a sand bag, If you cant hold 4 inch under pressure your too far.
What are we talking about here, traning for self defence or going to the olympics. If your shooting at some one with a hand gun at over 20 yards your going to go to jail and probably deserve it. So train with what you need to work on. Start at 7 feet, Thats right 7 feet!
When you can hold that group with your left hand, left eye (when your right handed) then 10 yards, and after that 20, but any more than that your not working on self defence, your a sniper!

Bob Thompson · January 15, 2005, 05:28 PM

Para, also here in the States we have so much freedom of shooting sports that we shoot for sport and recreation as well as self defense. That leads us to many types of shooting that seem uncomprehensible to our European counterparts. Where I'm at, within a one hour ride I can shoot in the desert with very little concern where my bullet will end up, within reason of course. I therefore shoot at distances that seem unreasonable to the average urban dweller just for FUN. Defense is only one faction of shooting a pistol and a very limited one at that due to the legal ramifications as you must certainly understand being an attorney. Most of my shooting is strickly for sport and I hope I can keep it that way for obvious reasons. Bob T.

Desertscout1 · January 15, 2005, 05:47 PM

1. Some of us have the capacity to chew gum and walk at the same time. This means that SOME of us shoot recreationally, sometimes at very long ranges, AND practice defensive shooting.

2. The original poster was NOT asking about defensive shooting. He was asking advice on a "good" distance to shoot a handgun and competition shooting. "Good" distance is defined differently by different people.

3. There are few, if any, people here that really need the advice of a European attorney. Things are not necessarily the same here.

4. In a defensive situation, you would not ordinarily shoot until your assailant was inside of 7 yards but all circumstances are not ordinary.

[[100yds (90m) with a handgun sounds great, but nobody will hit anything that moves effectively with a handgun at more than 30m (23yds), I bet.]]

This tells me that you have never been around anyone that could really shoot a handgun. "Effectively" doesn't necessarily mean every time. I'll guaran-damn-tee you that you do NOT want to bet your life on me not being able to hit you at a dead run at anywhere closer than 50 yards with my SBH or my GP-100. At 100 yards or so, I can assure that I could make you wet your pants.

[[always have to check what is behind your target. Your bullets could miss or overpenetrate (with any gun/calibre). How could you even have an Idea of what's behind your target if your target is more than 20m (22yds) away? ]]

I'm pretty sure that most of us here are quite familiar with Rule #4.

5. 100 yards is 91.44 meters.

Para Bellum · January 15, 2005, 05:57 PM

Ozzieman, I just put you on my buddy-list.

I even did Archery for a sport for a long time and I like it. I even think of getting a Steyr-Mannlicher SSG04 for long-distance (+300m/330yds) target shooting only. I admire good target shooting and enjoy it. That's why I divided my obove answer into two prongs.

But I think that with defense-handguns, long distance skills are counterproductive. You aim longer and stand still at long distances.

In my opinion, denfence-shooting means to
1. move quickly seeking cover or at least make yourself a harder target.
2. draw, aim and fire while you are moving and keep moving.
3. maybe: fight off the BG before you can move or draw because you only realized the threat when Mr. BG already is physically on you...

If you can do any of the above 3 at more than 10yds your very good. If you can do so at more than 20yds I am willing to kneel down before you and appologize.

Para Bellum · January 15, 2005, 06:13 PM

"Effectively doesn't necessarily mean every time."

To me effectively means as incapacitating as possible and reliably. But hey - target skills are fine...

[I still don't believe that anybody out there really can hit a (sideways) walking man at 100yds with a handgung even only 6 out of 10 times

]

Desertscout1 · January 15, 2005, 06:23 PM

A WALKING man? Para, if you have a place where you can practice long range handgunning where you live, you should try it. Of course, it may be a LITTLE harder with many semi-auto service pistols but it is still well within the realm of possibility.
It's easy to doubt when your a million miles away, but if you ever come to America, come to Farmington, NM and we'll go out and see what we can do.

Para Bellum · January 15, 2005, 06:30 PM

Ok Desertscout1, you have made me curious.

I used to live in NYC for a year and make it to the States every now and then. I will keep Farmington, New Mexico in mind. Would be great if we could have a laugh about this together somewhen.

Either I will kneel or you will pay the drinks afterwards. But what will be the target substitute for a walking man....

Desertscout1 · January 15, 2005, 06:53 PM

You can find me at: www.rosssportinggoods.com I will be happy to show you around.
When I can't find a willing Democrat, I sometimes use a rolling tire with a piece of cardboard wired over the hole for moving target practice. While you're here, I treat you to some aerial shooting with Ruger Mk II's.

Tim R · January 15, 2005, 07:27 PM

Then there's hunters pistol silhouette: Chickens at 25, pigs at 50, turkeys at 100 and rams at 200 meters or something like that. It's been awhile. My fav was 45 Win Mag out of a Contender.

I have to qualify at the 5, 7, 15 and 25 yard lines. I don't gain any thing by practicing at anything less than 25 yards. Take care of the longer ranges and the shorter ones take care of themselves.

Desertscout1 · January 15, 2005, 07:49 PM

NRA "Hunter" pistol, which is basically the same as IHMSA's "Field" pistol is shot at 40, 50, 75 and 100 yards. The chickens used to be at 25 but the NRA changed it to 40 after a couple of bullet splatter incidents. Regular long-range handgun silhouettes are shot at: chickens-50 yards, pigs-100 yards, turkeys-150 yards and rams at 200 yards.

Para, I'm not one to brag but before you and I go out and shoot, come in and look at a few trophies that I have here from shooting NRA Hunter pistol and Smallbore Hunter pistol. It's possible that it may influence your betting. There are 4 from the Nationals in Bradford, PA in 1992; 3 from Georgia State championships in '91 and '92; 2 from NC State championships, 1 from CO state; 6 from Regional championships in Georgia and a number from local matches in Georgia and Tennesee.

DT Guy · January 15, 2005, 10:32 PM

My .02:

Can You Shoot Well Enough?

Oriented towards defensive shooting, admittedly.

Larry

Handy · January 15, 2005, 10:42 PM

I think someone misunderstood:

A real gun fight IS the Olympics of shooting. That is your one chance to prove those skills you've been working on.

Shooting at close in targets that don't challenge your eyes to shift focus, or show your tendencies in regards to aim is just lazy. Show me a 25 yard shooter who can't make a 7 yard shot - I can show you a bunch of the opposite.

7 yard minute-of-torso shots are fine, until the day some maniac is using your wife as a shield. Than those self congratulatory 7 yard clusters aren't going to seem so valuable. I don't know how many decent enough IDPA shooters I've seen who completely choke on a bowling pin at 15 yards! That may be all the target you're given.

texmex · January 17, 2005, 03:54 AM

Dear johndavid400,

What will help you shoot smaller groups at longer distances is to aim at a smaller target. If you use the whole silhouette for your aiming point, you will shoot silhouette sized groups. Try placing a brightly colored dot or circle or postit note or something on the area of the target you want to hit. You'll be suprised at the results. When I aim at something, I try to pick out a spot on that target and aim at it. On a person it might be a button on their shirt or the tip if their nose or the point of the chin. The old PPC shooters always had their guns sighted in to shoot low so they could use the neck of the silhouette for their aiming point and still hit the center 10 ring.

If you aim at a button on a persons shirt and miss a little, you still get the job done. If you aim at the whole person and miss a little, you missed. Other than that, its all sight picture, breath control, trigger squeeze. Remember that everybody wobbles when shooting off hand. If you try to jerk the trigger as the sights wobble by the aiming point, you'll jerk the shot off target. Let the gun wobble. Get a good sight picture and focus on the front sight. Take a deep breath and let half of it out. Squeeze the trigger so it is sort of a surprize when it goes off. You'll be surprized at how small that wobble really is when you don't jerk the trigger.

Bob Thompson · January 17, 2005, 11:44 AM

As I said in an earlier post I don't understand why we focus on shooting a person so much. I think that is focusing on a very negetive subject; the taking of a life. We should do that but hopefully that will never come and we would be missing a whole lot of shooting FUN by not practicing at all the other types of shooting sports out there. If we truly love our sport we can find many shooting challenges from 10 feet to a thousand yards in the case of a rifle and everywhere in between. I think if we focus on a wide variety of shooting mediums we would live a much happier and enjoyable life. Think positive and sorry about the philosophy. Just my thoughts. Bob

brickeyee · January 17, 2005, 03:07 PM

While taking a life is indeed one of the worst outcomes, when it is required it must be performed without fail. The techniques of drawing, acquiring the target, and firing must be second nature and not require any signifiacnt thought. It must be a learned motor response.
As a civilian you may have a tough time convincing a jury that a person at 25 or more yards still constituted a threat. Even the 'knife danger zone' only goes to about 20 yards.
If you have 25 yards to work with, the best action is to leave. Back up. Make the distance even larger. You may only use deadly force if the person still cerates a threat.

January 5, 2005, 06:36 AM	#26
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	checked some military info 'Ball' goes over 1700 yds.......... __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

January 15, 2005, 04:47 PM	#34
Para Bellum Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2005 Location: right there Posts: 1,882	Defense (20m/22yds max) or Target (whatever....)? If you shoot for the sport go for staionary targets the size of an elephant at 500myds if you can. If you shoot for defence (as I do): 1. take my advise as an attorney at law: At least where I live (Europe) it would be a hell of a job to convince a jury that you were acting in self-defence if you shot somebody more than 20m (22yds) away. You might spend years behind bars thinking about this. 2. 100yds (90m) with a handgun sounds great, but nobody will hit anything that moves effectively with a handgun at more than 30m (23yds), I bet. In a defence-situation I expect the threat to move rapidly. Just think of an attacking dog. I wouldn't even think of firing before a threat is at 10m (11yds) or closer. If he is stationary and e.g. threatening somebody else, I'd close in. You can learn to move and shoot in any IPSC-club etc. 3. You always have to check what is behind your target. Your bullets could miss or overpenetrate (with any gun/calibre). How could you even have an Idea of what's behind your target if your target is more than 20m (22yds) away? Stay safe. __________________ Si vis pacem - para bellum If you want peace - prepare for war

January 15, 2005, 05:11 PM	#36
Ozzieman Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 6,117	12" @ 200 yards, off hand, I would have to see that What I tell people that I have worked with is, if you cant hold a 4 inch group, and thats off hand, ether hand, ether eye, and do it with 2 quickly placed rounds your to far away. I dont care if you can take a walther PPKs and with one round hit the eye of a nedle at 100000 yards across a sand bag, If you cant hold 4 inch under pressure your too far. What are we talking about here, traning for self defence or going to the olympics. If your shooting at some one with a hand gun at over 20 yards your going to go to jail and probably deserve it. So train with what you need to work on. Start at 7 feet, Thats right 7 feet! When you can hold that group with your left hand, left eye (when your right handed) then 10 yards, and after that 20, but any more than that your not working on self defence, your a sniper!

January 15, 2005, 05:57 PM	#39
Para Bellum Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2005 Location: right there Posts: 1,882	Sports and fun are fine! (as is Ozzieman) Ozzieman, I just put you on my buddy-list. I even did Archery for a sport for a long time and I like it. I even think of getting a Steyr-Mannlicher SSG04 for long-distance (+300m/330yds) target shooting only. I admire good target shooting and enjoy it. That's why I divided my obove answer into two prongs. But I think that with defense-handguns, long distance skills are counterproductive. You aim longer and stand still at long distances. In my opinion, denfence-shooting means to 1. move quickly seeking cover or at least make yourself a harder target. 2. draw, aim and fire while you are moving and keep moving. 3. maybe: fight off the BG before you can move or draw because you only realized the threat when Mr. BG already is physically on you... If you can do any of the above 3 at more than 10yds your very good. If you can do so at more than 20yds I am willing to kneel down before you and appologize. __________________ Si vis pacem - para bellum If you want peace - prepare for war

January 15, 2005, 06:13 PM	#40
Para Bellum Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2005 Location: right there Posts: 1,882	"shooting effectively" "Effectively doesn't necessarily mean every time." To me effectively means as incapacitating as possible and reliably. But hey - target skills are fine... [I still don't believe that anybody out there really can hit a (sideways) walking man at 100yds with a handgung even only 6 out of 10 times ] __________________ Si vis pacem - para bellum If you want peace - prepare for war

January 5, 2005, 01:40 PM	#29
nandoaqui Senior Member Join Date: April 9, 2002 Location: midwest Posts: 113	Ninjato, When I taught my kids and wife to shoot many years ago, I used the then old trick of loading the revolver with only three live rounds, not in consecutive chambers. When they pulled the trigger on an already fired case, they could readily see if they moved the gun. Later on, I started using snap caps mixed in with live rounds in pistol magazines. Dry-firing, as you well know, is nothing more than the same exercise, just extended. Some people do not realize that it is nearly impossible to tell whether a person moves the gun when firing live rounds – only the point of impact could tell the story. However, if the shot is off target, is it because the shooter moved the gun, or did not aim properly, or perhaps both? Dry-firing can surely help to ‘train’ our muscles and concentration to pull or press the trigger without changing the sight picture – even when the sight picture is acquired quickly. Just prior to my last IDPA match, I dry-fired for several days, about 15 minutes each session, concentrating on not moving the gun at all regardless of my stance. The day of the match, the three or four shooters who preceded me where shooting 9mm, were more accomplished competitors than I am, and I was watching them very attentively. When my turn came, I did my best to emulate their movements and was able to very quickly acquire the first target, some 10 yards away, and shoot it almost dead on. BUT – the recoil of that first shot of the day startled me! I guess after dry-firing quite a bit and watching the other shooters with their 9mm, I completely forgot that my .45 ACP would get completely off target – big time. No problem, I got back on, shot that first target again as required, just missing my first shot, moved on to the next three targets, and did really well. As far as I know, a lot (most?) of the competitors do a lot of deliberate, constructive dry-firing. BTW, I will dry fire with several guns as they all help to develop the “don’t move the gun” objective. Alex

January 10, 2005, 06:07 PM	#30
osirus101 Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2005 Location: alaska Posts: 183	A buddy of mine has shot in a six inch group at 100 yards with the ruger 454 and off hand to. i couldnt believe it if i didnt see it. i recently got one and i can do that at about 25 yards. Not quite a 100 but im working up to it.Takes alot of practice.

January 13, 2005, 07:20 PM	#31
tomlj75 Member Join Date: January 12, 2005 Posts: 23	I usually practice at 100 - 125 yards with my 480 ruger, the sights are far apart so it is easier to sight in at distance. just depends on the individual pistol have fun

January 13, 2005, 07:27 PM	#32
seb5 Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2004 Location: NW Arkansas Posts: 477	Osirus101, I'm surely not calling you a liar but I would have to see that one myself.

January 14, 2005, 11:35 AM	#33
Desertscout1 Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2004 Location: NM Posts: 421	If you have a problem believing that, you need to get out more. 100+ yard handgun shooting is not remotely difficult. My SBH will EASILY hold 6-8" inch groups at 100 yards. 12" or so at 200. All of my Glocks will shoot 10-14" at 100 yards depending on which gun and which load. My BHP would hit a 30" disk at 200" meters about 80" of the time. Accurqacy is relative at longer distances meaning that you will not be shooting 1" groups at 200 yards but you would be surprised what a good accurate handgun can do at LONG range...like 4-600 yards.

January 15, 2005, 04:52 PM	#35
Handy Junior member Join Date: August 31, 2001 Posts: 8,785	Para, Your "advice" seems to lead one to the conclusion that one should never practice at a range longer than one might need in a fight. So I'll ask: Do you think Olympic track sprinters never run farther than the 100 meters of their event? Or is it possible that the skills practiced at longer distance make one a better shooter at all ranges?

January 15, 2005, 05:28 PM	#37
Bob Thompson Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 1998 Location: riverdale,ut,usa Posts: 136	Para, also here in the States we have so much freedom of shooting sports that we shoot for sport and recreation as well as self defense. That leads us to many types of shooting that seem uncomprehensible to our European counterparts. Where I'm at, within a one hour ride I can shoot in the desert with very little concern where my bullet will end up, within reason of course. I therefore shoot at distances that seem unreasonable to the average urban dweller just for FUN. Defense is only one faction of shooting a pistol and a very limited one at that due to the legal ramifications as you must certainly understand being an attorney. Most of my shooting is strickly for sport and I hope I can keep it that way for obvious reasons. Bob T.

January 15, 2005, 05:47 PM	#38
Desertscout1 Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2004 Location: NM Posts: 421	1. Some of us have the capacity to chew gum and walk at the same time. This means that SOME of us shoot recreationally, sometimes at very long ranges, AND practice defensive shooting. 2. The original poster was NOT asking about defensive shooting. He was asking advice on a "good" distance to shoot a handgun and competition shooting. "Good" distance is defined differently by different people. 3. There are few, if any, people here that really need the advice of a European attorney. Things are not necessarily the same here. 4. In a defensive situation, you would not ordinarily shoot until your assailant was inside of 7 yards but all circumstances are not ordinary. [[100yds (90m) with a handgun sounds great, but nobody will hit anything that moves effectively with a handgun at more than 30m (23yds), I bet.]] This tells me that you have never been around anyone that could really shoot a handgun. "Effectively" doesn't necessarily mean every time. I'll guaran-damn-tee you that you do NOT want to bet your life on me not being able to hit you at a dead run at anywhere closer than 50 yards with my SBH or my GP-100. At 100 yards or so, I can assure that I could make you wet your pants. [[always have to check what is behind your target. Your bullets could miss or overpenetrate (with any gun/calibre). How could you even have an Idea of what's behind your target if your target is more than 20m (22yds) away? ]] I'm pretty sure that most of us here are quite familiar with Rule #4. 5. 100 yards is 91.44 meters.

January 15, 2005, 06:23 PM	#41
Desertscout1 Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2004 Location: NM Posts: 421	A WALKING man? Para, if you have a place where you can practice long range handgunning where you live, you should try it. Of course, it may be a LITTLE harder with many semi-auto service pistols but it is still well within the realm of possibility. It's easy to doubt when your a million miles away, but if you ever come to America, come to Farmington, NM and we'll go out and see what we can do.

January 15, 2005, 06:30 PM	#42
Para Bellum Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2005 Location: right there Posts: 1,882	I might come Ok Desertscout1, you have made me curious. I used to live in NYC for a year and make it to the States every now and then. I will keep Farmington, New Mexico in mind. Would be great if we could have a laugh about this together somewhen. Either I will kneel or you will pay the drinks afterwards. But what will be the target substitute for a walking man.... __________________ Si vis pacem - para bellum If you want peace - prepare for war

January 15, 2005, 06:53 PM	#43
Desertscout1 Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2004 Location: NM Posts: 421	You can find me at: www.rosssportinggoods.com I will be happy to show you around. When I can't find a willing Democrat, I sometimes use a rolling tire with a piece of cardboard wired over the hole for moving target practice. While you're here, I treat you to some aerial shooting with Ruger Mk II's.

January 15, 2005, 07:27 PM	#44
Tim R Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2004 Location: God's side of Washington State Posts: 1,601	Then there's hunters pistol silhouette: Chickens at 25, pigs at 50, turkeys at 100 and rams at 200 meters or something like that. It's been awhile. My fav was 45 Win Mag out of a Contender. I have to qualify at the 5, 7, 15 and 25 yard lines. I don't gain any thing by practicing at anything less than 25 yards. Take care of the longer ranges and the shorter ones take care of themselves. __________________ God Bless our Troops especially our Snipers.

January 15, 2005, 07:49 PM	#45
Desertscout1 Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2004 Location: NM Posts: 421	NRA "Hunter" pistol, which is basically the same as IHMSA's "Field" pistol is shot at 40, 50, 75 and 100 yards. The chickens used to be at 25 but the NRA changed it to 40 after a couple of bullet splatter incidents. Regular long-range handgun silhouettes are shot at: chickens-50 yards, pigs-100 yards, turkeys-150 yards and rams at 200 yards. Para, I'm not one to brag but before you and I go out and shoot, come in and look at a few trophies that I have here from shooting NRA Hunter pistol and Smallbore Hunter pistol. It's possible that it may influence your betting. There are 4 from the Nationals in Bradford, PA in 1992; 3 from Georgia State championships in '91 and '92; 2 from NC State championships, 1 from CO state; 6 from Regional championships in Georgia and a number from local matches in Georgia and Tennesee.

January 15, 2005, 10:32 PM	#46
DT Guy Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2001 Posts: 959	My .02: Can You Shoot Well Enough? Oriented towards defensive shooting, admittedly. Larry __________________ He who fights and runs away had better run pretty damn fast. Government, Anarchy and Chaos

January 15, 2005, 10:42 PM	#47
Handy Junior member Join Date: August 31, 2001 Posts: 8,785	I think someone misunderstood: A real gun fight IS the Olympics of shooting. That is your one chance to prove those skills you've been working on. Shooting at close in targets that don't challenge your eyes to shift focus, or show your tendencies in regards to aim is just lazy. Show me a 25 yard shooter who can't make a 7 yard shot - I can show you a bunch of the opposite. 7 yard minute-of-torso shots are fine, until the day some maniac is using your wife as a shield. Than those self congratulatory 7 yard clusters aren't going to seem so valuable. I don't know how many decent enough IDPA shooters I've seen who completely choke on a bowling pin at 15 yards! That may be all the target you're given.

January 17, 2005, 03:54 AM	#48
texmex Member Join Date: November 21, 2004 Posts: 85	Dear johndavid400, What will help you shoot smaller groups at longer distances is to aim at a smaller target. If you use the whole silhouette for your aiming point, you will shoot silhouette sized groups. Try placing a brightly colored dot or circle or postit note or something on the area of the target you want to hit. You'll be suprised at the results. When I aim at something, I try to pick out a spot on that target and aim at it. On a person it might be a button on their shirt or the tip if their nose or the point of the chin. The old PPC shooters always had their guns sighted in to shoot low so they could use the neck of the silhouette for their aiming point and still hit the center 10 ring. If you aim at a button on a persons shirt and miss a little, you still get the job done. If you aim at the whole person and miss a little, you missed. Other than that, its all sight picture, breath control, trigger squeeze. Remember that everybody wobbles when shooting off hand. If you try to jerk the trigger as the sights wobble by the aiming point, you'll jerk the shot off target. Let the gun wobble. Get a good sight picture and focus on the front sight. Take a deep breath and let half of it out. Squeeze the trigger so it is sort of a surprize when it goes off. You'll be surprized at how small that wobble really is when you don't jerk the trigger.

January 17, 2005, 11:44 AM	#49
Bob Thompson Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 1998 Location: riverdale,ut,usa Posts: 136	As I said in an earlier post I don't understand why we focus on shooting a person so much. I think that is focusing on a very negetive subject; the taking of a life. We should do that but hopefully that will never come and we would be missing a whole lot of shooting FUN by not practicing at all the other types of shooting sports out there. If we truly love our sport we can find many shooting challenges from 10 feet to a thousand yards in the case of a rifle and everywhere in between. I think if we focus on a wide variety of shooting mediums we would live a much happier and enjoyable life. Think positive and sorry about the philosophy. Just my thoughts. Bob

January 17, 2005, 03:07 PM	#50
brickeyee Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2004 Posts: 3,351	While taking a life is indeed one of the worst outcomes, when it is required it must be performed without fail. The techniques of drawing, acquiring the target, and firing must be second nature and not require any signifiacnt thought. It must be a learned motor response. As a civilian you may have a tough time convincing a jury that a person at 25 or more yards still constituted a threat. Even the 'knife danger zone' only goes to about 20 yards. If you have 25 yards to work with, the best action is to leave. Back up. Make the distance even larger. You may only use deadly force if the person still cerates a threat.