Saiga Rifles: Worth It, Or Worthless? - Page 2

kilimanjaro · June 11, 2012, 10:46 PM

I've fired 'em twice now, don't own one, but it seems to be surprisingly well made. It's mainly stamped metal, but fit and function were fine. Accuracy was good, no issues I could discern with 100 rounds.

Nick9130White · June 12, 2012, 02:48 AM

I own two, a Saiga .308 with 21.8" barrel and a Saiga .223 with a 16" barrel.
I converted both of mine and they are perfect. Accurate enought for what they are meant to do. On my 223 I put a Bulgarian AK74 FSB and MB on it. I don't own a Saiga in x39 though. Thought about it but I own a polish UF kit so no need really. But if you have the chance, buy it. You will not regret it.

Skans · June 12, 2012, 07:27 AM

Quote:

I'm only looking for a reliable rifle;

Saiga is known to be very reliable out of the box. And, I've not heard of a Saiga semi-auto AK style rifle breaking. If that's your threshold, then you won't have any problem with a Saiga. My problem is that I've owned a Polytech stamped receiver AK - that's my base for comparing quality. If you completely disassemble a Saiga and a Polytech, look at the receivers and the parts, you can see and feel the difference. The Polytech Legends were even nicer (milled receivers), and if you compare those side by side with Arsenal, you will see that Polytech makes a nicer milled receiver rifle than Arsenal (which is a very nice AK).

Presently, the only AK I own is a Polish underfolder built on a DCI 1.5mm receiver with TAPCO fire control parts. All parts numbers (except TAPCO fire control parts) match and looked new (when I bought it) - it'll shoot any ammo all day long without a hickup and is accurate enough for an AK. However, the fit, finish, barrel thickness, bolt, bolt carrier, fire control parts, magazine and receiver thickness of the stamped Polytech is observably superior to my Polish underfolder.

The bottom line - I keep my eyes pealed for a nice stamped Polytech underfolder (with spiked bayonet and all the goodies) in the low 1,000's. If I happen to find a Legend that I can afford, then that would be ok too. My reason for saying all of this is because there are a lot of Saiga fans out there that think Saiga is the cream of the crop when it comes to AK's just because they are made in Russia. They're not. The Polytech AK's imported prior to '89 are the cream of the crop in my opinion. Of course, this is excluding variants like Galil, Valmet M-76 and others.

essohbe · June 12, 2012, 11:46 AM

^ If the OP thinks a Mini30 is too expensive then they are not about to go out and buy a Polytech

Quote:

My questions: Are these weapons worth the money [as in, are they reliable and reasonably accurate]?

YES. Buy them both before the coming price hikes. As soon as I sell my WASR I'm getting a 7.62x39 Saiga to go with my 5.45 I already have.

Quote:

Other question: This shop also sells SureFire hi-cap mags for the rifles. Are they reliable as well? Thanks for any and all info.

To make an AK feed reliably it's best to install a bullet guide/feed ramp in the front trunion just below the breech. They should then reliably feed from any AK magazine. Don't buy the one's made for Saiga's, the only difference is that the lips sit a little higher to compensate for the lack of a bullet guide in the trunion. Saiga's aren't imported with feed ramps so allot of people (like myself) just attach their own or an aftermarket one.

You'll save money in the long run by installing your own bullet guide for free or even buying the $20 ones available already made as opposed to forking out $$$ for high priced magazines designed to be used with Saigas that don't have the feedramps.

Guns Blazing · June 12, 2012, 12:49 PM

I am also deeply considering a Saiga .308, cause i want a cheaper .308 Semi Auto before i can eventually afford to get a Springfield M1A, Been researching the Saiga for about a week, haven't shot one but have heard such great things for the price i think i will definitely grab one...

Worth It.

Battle Born · June 12, 2012, 03:47 PM

We sell a ton of them and they always work well and Ive had no complaints as of yet.
Go ahead and get one, I bet you will be happy.

Mark

Single Six · June 12, 2012, 08:12 PM

Okay, I was really wanting to buy a Saiga...but having been filled in by other TFL members on 922r, I'm really having second thoughts. I've checked out some provided links pertaining to this particular law, and the more I read, the more confused I'm getting! The more I think about this, the more I'm thinking that this may be best left alone [as in, I won't buy a Saiga], because the last thing I want to do is unknowingly violate any laws.

essohbe · June 13, 2012, 12:00 AM

Don't let 922r scare you out of owning one of the best AK rifles you can get for the money. If you're not going to reconfigure the rifle then don't worry about it just don't get caught with the foreign surplus hi cap mags.

If you are going to reconfigure it then it's not a big issue since most the parts you'll need to buy, like the fire control group Tapco makes for example, are probably going to come from the US anyways (unless you have a bunch of parts kits lying around).

Nobody ever checks for 922r anyways. Hell, someone could just get a letter punch and stamp "USA" on the parts.

raftman · June 13, 2012, 01:55 AM

922R is all a matter of following the bottom line. Basically, if you're gonna add one or more of certain evil features, the bottom line is the resulting rifle must not have more than 10 foreign-made countable parts. You follow that, and you're good.

CAOxInfinity · June 13, 2012, 02:45 AM

Bought my 762x39 saiga in 2005 and paid $229 for it....those were the days.

I've put around 10k roinds through it and have yet to have a failure. Not saying it can't happen, its a machine after all, and all machines will eventually fail. But, mine has been extremely reliable.

As for accuracy, 2 inch groups at 100yds. Plenty good enough for me.

Sent from my Incredible 2 using Tapatalk

CCCLVII · June 14, 2012, 11:37 AM

I know its a shot gun but my Saiga 12 works well. Its not 100% but its close.

BIG P · June 15, 2012, 02:23 AM

Got both 308 & 762x39 its the 308 for me,Hard to complain about a 300.oo 308 SA.But if you wait around they're sure to go UP.

Remember what the SKS's did. Make it easy on yourself.

jrmoney · June 15, 2012, 05:27 AM

I love my Saiga. Totally reliable! I have never had a problem with any Saiga variant. They are the leader in AK rifles. Sons of Guns exclusivly uses these rifles to do a majority of their business.

JRMONEY
https://www.youtube.com/user/jstreamnc

Single Six · June 16, 2012, 10:24 PM

I wanted a Saiga. Really, I did. I even spoke to a BATFE agent to get clarification on this whole 922r thing...he thought I was talking about the now-expired AWB, and ultimately ended up being of no real help. But between hearing one thing here at TFL, and totally different things in other places, it all adds up to one big question mark for me....and rather than risk it, I'm just not going to get the Saiga. As a full-time LEO, I can't take the chance with something that may or may not be on the up-and-up. So: I'll just play it safe and either get a Ruger Mini-30, or maybe that Blackhawk I've been eyeing! Thanks to all for the responses.

raftman · June 17, 2012, 01:58 AM

I dunno, I'd sooner do an SKS than a Mini-30. Cheaper, more reliable.

barnetmill · June 17, 2012, 02:11 AM

I have the S12 and S308 with the original triggers still in them even though I have changed a few other parts. They need to be converted and the triggers replaced since they are terrible to the point that I can not shoot rapidly with the terrible trigger pulls, much less accurately. The guns function very well and the S308 may be accurate. I need to do the conversion and work more with them and that i will do next year.

Single Six · June 17, 2012, 07:15 AM

Raftman: From what I've been seeing, Mini-30 reliability seems to be one of those issues that people just can't seem to agree on; some folks swear by them, others swear at them. Being a Ruger fan, I'll chance it. If the one I get turns out to be a dud, then I'll just sell it off and trade up. Besides, the SKS doesn't come in my preferred finish [stainless], but the Ruger does.

Your opinions and previous PMs are still much appreciated, though!

Joe_Pike · June 19, 2012, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Don't pay those prices for a Saiga.They are great guns however.Just a couple of years ago,you could get the .223 & 7.62x39 version in hand for less than $300.00

You'll have to get in your 'way back machine' to get that price again. I was in the LGS today and they had a 7.62x39 for $439. That's $110 more than they sold them for three years ago, and I'm betting you'll never see that price again.

Capybara · June 21, 2012, 02:52 PM

I like Saigas, but for a quality AK-type rifle, the VEPRs are hard to beat PLUS you can get a 7.62 x 54R version so you can share the cheapest ammo on the market with your Mosin.

OLD SF MJT · November 13, 2023, 02:55 PM

Hard to find these days since we no longer allow imports of firearms from Russia anymore ( thank you BHO, you POS!), but still a genuine AK from mother Russia! I have three of them, in .223, 7.62x39 & .308, converted back to their ‘proper configuration.’ All are solid, robust, modestly accurate shooters! All three are set up with Texas Weapon Systems, Gen. II ‘Dogleg’ top cover (VERY PLEASED!). The .223 & x39 are converted to run factory mags ( standard AK mags for x39 & Galil .223 mags ( tougher to come by new adays, but still out there. I discovered that, by comparing the rear mag catch on the factory (Saiga) .223 mag & the x39 mags that the mag catches on the two different rifles could be swapped & normal mag fit up perfectly! Just add a bullet guide & life was good! I could use modestly priced, robust, full-capacity mags! Sadly there was no such fix for the .308! So it’s SGM 308 mags for the 308 shooter! But 1 expensive mag out of 3 is great! I think you can still find .223 Galil mag at Numrich & gun mag warehouse.

Good luck & I hope that this might help someone! I love me some Saigas!

Old SF

tangolima · November 14, 2023, 10:46 AM

Never care about those Russians. Not giving them any of my pennies. They are the real POS.

The guns. Wouldn't mind buying them used. Just no more new imports. Same goes to the chincom. Same POS, if not worse.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

**JohnKSa** · November 14, 2023, 11:03 AM

At this point, no more Russian arms or ammo are allowed to be imported so you're safe. Same for the Chinese stuff, with maybe a few very limited exceptions.

tangolima · November 14, 2023, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnKSa

At this point, no more Russian arms or ammo are allowed to be imported so you're safe. Same for the Chinese stuff, with maybe a few very limited exceptions.

I know that. Just couldn't bear people calling a president POS over a Russian gun.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

rickyrick · November 14, 2023, 06:49 PM

Zombie thread anyway

Ignition Override · December 8, 2023, 05:06 PM

A civilian "sporter" AKM built in a Russian factory is probably as high a quality as can be found.
Do some people not realize which country Invented the basic rifle

, and shipped many thousands to client countries during the Cold War?

The only feature I didn't like was the original trigger -- because -- our laws prohibited its importation with a pistol grip.

The trigger bars to accommodate the long finger Reach (from the butt stock) are not a smooth pull, and I didn't have the tool skills to convert the Saiga.

I owned both the .223 and 7,62x39 versions and being nib their quality was certainly as high as anything I've ever owned in a semi-auto centerfire rifle. It's difficult to put in words. Those components were "born" to work together in an excellent manner. Why wouldn't they.....

June 12, 2012, 02:48 AM	#27
Nick9130White Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Location: California. Posts: 234	I own two, a Saiga .308 with 21.8" barrel and a Saiga .223 with a 16" barrel. I converted both of mine and they are perfect. Accurate enought for what they are meant to do. On my 223 I put a Bulgarian AK74 FSB and MB on it. I don't own a Saiga in x39 though. Thought about it but I own a polish UF kit so no need really. But if you have the chance, buy it. You will not regret it. __________________ Counting the days til next duck season.

June 12, 2012, 03:47 PM	#31
Battle Born Member Join Date: June 11, 2011 Posts: 24	We sell a ton of them and they always work well and Ive had no complaints as of yet. Go ahead and get one, I bet you will be happy. Mark __________________ US Firearms Academy Store-775-826-2626 www.Renoguns.com [email protected]

June 12, 2012, 08:12 PM	#32
Single Six Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2010 Location: N.C. Posts: 1,522	Okay, I was really wanting to buy a Saiga...but having been filled in by other TFL members on 922r, I'm really having second thoughts. I've checked out some provided links pertaining to this particular law, and the more I read, the more confused I'm getting! The more I think about this, the more I'm thinking that this may be best left alone [as in, I won't buy a Saiga], because the last thing I want to do is unknowingly violate any laws. __________________ Seen on a bumper sticker: "Exercise. Eat right. Take vitamins. Die anyway."

June 13, 2012, 01:55 AM	#34
raftman Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2009 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,890	922R is all a matter of following the bottom line. Basically, if you're gonna add one or more of certain evil features, the bottom line is the resulting rifle must not have more than 10 foreign-made countable parts. You follow that, and you're good. __________________ "My momma, she done told me, there's heart and then there's hate If one of 'em's inside of you, the other one, it aint."

June 14, 2012, 11:37 AM	#36
CCCLVII Senior Member Join Date: April 16, 2012 Location: Idaho Posts: 432	I know its a shot gun but my Saiga 12 works well. Its not 100% but its close. __________________ Always looking for a good hunt!

June 11, 2012, 10:46 PM	#26
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	I've fired 'em twice now, don't own one, but it seems to be surprisingly well made. It's mainly stamped metal, but fit and function were fine. Accuracy was good, no issues I could discern with 100 rounds.

June 12, 2012, 12:49 PM	#30
Guns Blazing Member Join Date: June 12, 2012 Posts: 22	I am also deeply considering a Saiga .308, cause i want a cheaper .308 Semi Auto before i can eventually afford to get a Springfield M1A, Been researching the Saiga for about a week, haven't shot one but have heard such great things for the price i think i will definitely grab one... Worth It.

June 13, 2012, 12:00 AM	#33
essohbe Junior member Join Date: March 22, 2009 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 817	Don't let 922r scare you out of owning one of the best AK rifles you can get for the money. If you're not going to reconfigure the rifle then don't worry about it just don't get caught with the foreign surplus hi cap mags. If you are going to reconfigure it then it's not a big issue since most the parts you'll need to buy, like the fire control group Tapco makes for example, are probably going to come from the US anyways (unless you have a bunch of parts kits lying around). Nobody ever checks for 922r anyways. Hell, someone could just get a letter punch and stamp "USA" on the parts.

June 13, 2012, 02:45 AM	#35
CAOxInfinity Member Join Date: November 30, 2011 Posts: 36	Bought my 762x39 saiga in 2005 and paid $229 for it....those were the days. I've put around 10k roinds through it and have yet to have a failure. Not saying it can't happen, its a machine after all, and all machines will eventually fail. But, mine has been extremely reliable. As for accuracy, 2 inch groups at 100yds. Plenty good enough for me. Sent from my Incredible 2 using Tapatalk

June 15, 2012, 02:23 AM	#37
BIG P Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2010 Location: North Georgia Posts: 1,679	Got both 308 & 762x39 its the 308 for me,Hard to complain about a 300.oo 308 SA.But if you wait around they're sure to go UP. Remember what the SKS's did. Make it easy on yourself.

June 15, 2012, 05:27 AM	#38
jrmoney Junior Member Join Date: May 27, 2012 Posts: 5	I love my Saiga. Totally reliable! I have never had a problem with any Saiga variant. They are the leader in AK rifles. Sons of Guns exclusivly uses these rifles to do a majority of their business. JRMONEY https://www.youtube.com/user/jstreamnc

June 16, 2012, 10:24 PM	#39
Single Six Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2010 Location: N.C. Posts: 1,522	I wanted a Saiga. Really, I did. I even spoke to a BATFE agent to get clarification on this whole 922r thing...he thought I was talking about the now-expired AWB, and ultimately ended up being of no real help. But between hearing one thing here at TFL, and totally different things in other places, it all adds up to one big question mark for me....and rather than risk it, I'm just not going to get the Saiga. As a full-time LEO, I can't take the chance with something that may or may not be on the up-and-up. So: I'll just play it safe and either get a Ruger Mini-30, or maybe that Blackhawk I've been eyeing! Thanks to all for the responses. __________________ Seen on a bumper sticker: "Exercise. Eat right. Take vitamins. Die anyway."

June 17, 2012, 01:58 AM	#40
raftman Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2009 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,890	I dunno, I'd sooner do an SKS than a Mini-30. Cheaper, more reliable. __________________ "My momma, she done told me, there's heart and then there's hate If one of 'em's inside of you, the other one, it aint."

June 17, 2012, 02:11 AM	#41
barnetmill Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2005 Posts: 121	I have the S12 and S308 with the original triggers still in them even though I have changed a few other parts. They need to be converted and the triggers replaced since they are terrible to the point that I can not shoot rapidly with the terrible trigger pulls, much less accurately. The guns function very well and the S308 may be accurate. I need to do the conversion and work more with them and that i will do next year.

June 17, 2012, 07:15 AM	#42
Single Six Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2010 Location: N.C. Posts: 1,522	Raftman: From what I've been seeing, Mini-30 reliability seems to be one of those issues that people just can't seem to agree on; some folks swear by them, others swear at them. Being a Ruger fan, I'll chance it. If the one I get turns out to be a dud, then I'll just sell it off and trade up. Besides, the SKS doesn't come in my preferred finish [stainless], but the Ruger does. Your opinions and previous PMs are still much appreciated, though! __________________ Seen on a bumper sticker: "Exercise. Eat right. Take vitamins. Die anyway."

June 21, 2012, 02:52 PM	#44
Capybara Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2012 Posts: 180	I like Saigas, but for a quality AK-type rifle, the VEPRs are hard to beat PLUS you can get a 7.62 x 54R version so you can share the cheapest ammo on the market with your Mosin.

November 13, 2023, 02:55 PM	#45
OLD SF MJT Junior Member Join Date: September 20, 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 7	Hard to find these days since we no longer allow imports of firearms from Russia anymore ( thank you BHO, you POS!), but still a genuine AK from mother Russia! I have three of them, in .223, 7.62x39 & .308, converted back to their ‘proper configuration.’ All are solid, robust, modestly accurate shooters! All three are set up with Texas Weapon Systems, Gen. II ‘Dogleg’ top cover (VERY PLEASED!). The .223 & x39 are converted to run factory mags ( standard AK mags for x39 & Galil .223 mags ( tougher to come by new adays, but still out there. I discovered that, by comparing the rear mag catch on the factory (Saiga) .223 mag & the x39 mags that the mag catches on the two different rifles could be swapped & normal mag fit up perfectly! Just add a bullet guide & life was good! I could use modestly priced, robust, full-capacity mags! Sadly there was no such fix for the .308! So it’s SGM 308 mags for the 308 shooter! But 1 expensive mag out of 3 is great! I think you can still find .223 Galil mag at Numrich & gun mag warehouse. Good luck & I hope that this might help someone! I love me some Saigas! Old SF

November 14, 2023, 10:46 AM	#46
tangolima Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2013 Posts: 3,827	Never care about those Russians. Not giving them any of my pennies. They are the real POS. The guns. Wouldn't mind buying them used. Just no more new imports. Same goes to the chincom. Same POS, if not worse. -TL Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

November 14, 2023, 11:03 AM	#47
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,993	At this point, no more Russian arms or ammo are allowed to be imported so you're safe. Same for the Chinese stuff, with maybe a few very limited exceptions. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

November 14, 2023, 06:49 PM	#49
rickyrick Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Posts: 8,238	Zombie thread anyway __________________ Woohoo, I’m back In Texas!!!

December 8, 2023, 05:06 PM	#50
Ignition Override Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2008 Location: About 20 nm from the Big Muddy Posts: 2,887	A civilian "sporter" AKM built in a Russian factory is probably as high a quality as can be found. Do some people not realize which country Invented the basic rifle, and shipped many thousands to client countries during the Cold War? The only feature I didn't like was the original trigger -- because -- our laws prohibited its importation with a pistol grip. The trigger bars to accommodate the long finger Reach (from the butt stock) are not a smooth pull, and I didn't have the tool skills to convert the Saiga. I owned both the .223 and 7,62x39 versions and being nib their quality was certainly as high as anything I've ever owned in a semi-auto centerfire rifle. It's difficult to put in words. Those components were "born" to work together in an excellent manner. Why wouldn't they.....