Model 1905 Bayonet WT Mfg

RC20 · May 13, 2012, 05:39 PM

When I was a kid I bought a bayonet through NRA magazine (best I can recall). Sometime around 1960. It turned out my younger brother wound up with it and gave it to me recently as he is clearing stuff out and as we were telling stories remembered it was mine.

My brothers and I have been getting my dads 1903 Sporter back into shooting condition and its spiraled off into one of the brothers picking up a group of 1903s and getting them back to original condition and has a lot of basic data

He though the bayonet was worth some significant money (by our standards) and I have researched it. Turns out it has some value. This one has a good provenance and the WT cross bar matches the marks on the blade (date of ownership and with the family since bought).

Its WT made so fairly rare, still the 16 inch length. Seems to be excellent condition from what I can see for sale though it has a few dings on the blade and the butt got used to hammer things so some dings there. Functions just fine for locking onto a 1903 (we have tested it on my brothers guns)

Also saw one that has a poor bakelite handles fit, this one is very closely matches. 1943 mfg so it can be matched up to two month period.

More or less at some point I am going to sell it as it does not have a lot of nostalgia. Mostly interested where the best place to sell something like that would be. More or less looking for the intense serious group or groups who would have major interest in it. While I would as much as I can get I also want it to go to someone who appreciates it (don’t want to ebay it)

As its correct for both the 1903 and the M1 connections into both groups would be good.

Scabbard is wrong for the bayonet but seems to have some value on its own (Navy Mk 1) and is also in good condition with one ding on the edge.

Pretty amazing condition for both items period, let alone it was used to do war on devils clubs (which I quickly found I was loosing badly).

Chris_B · May 13, 2012, 07:45 PM

Only "WT" I could imagine is Wilde Drop Forge and Tool Company

You could try usmilitariaforum.com

James K · May 13, 2012, 08:31 PM

W T is Wlide Drop Forge and Tool Co., then located in Kansas City, MO; today Wilde Tool Co., the new name, is in Hiawatha, KS.

Jim

Winchester_73 · May 13, 2012, 09:01 PM

I would personally ebay such an item. I have saw a lot on there go for more than its worth. Sounds like a neat bayonet. I never heard of this maker you and Jim K speak of so I assume it to be a rare maker. The original scabbard has a big impact on the value. The "US" in the flaming bomb is the correct one, with the "USN" above "MK2" being a common replacement scabbard although that replacement would have been done post war. Nice 16 in bayonets with original scabbards usually go for for $250 + on ebay. Some early 1903s (same bayonet, but earlier, with diff scabbard and grips) can go for $400 or more, depending on several factors.

RC20 · May 13, 2012, 10:44 PM

The WT is Wilde Drop Forge and Tool.

Popular research says 60k made. I do not think there were that many.

The assigned production (or agreed) was 60k, but they had problems (it looks like all bayonet mfgs did with tooling and material being on the bottom of the priority list)

They may have been assigned 60k, but they did not make them or they would not have had the contract whacked.

WT was the most troublesome bayonet contractor. Probably because they had less clout than anyone, though the bayonet I have is well made and well fitted.

This would be a rare amongst rare as being 1943, they only produced them in Jan and Feb (contract canceled) so very few 1943s and the only ones you could pin down that close an actual month mfg date.

The Scabbard is incorrect though its possible they saw field service.

Its supposed to be issued for the plastic practice bayonet used by the US Navy (no idea, apparently they did not issue real bayonets on ship or used army ones, go figure).

So its a mis matched set which is fine as each has its own value.

madcratebuilder · May 14, 2012, 07:06 AM

Evil bay seems to get you great prices on items like this. I would look at what is listed on EB and maybe list it as a "buy it now" with the price you would like to see. If it doesn't sell you can always lower the price. The finial value fees and pay pal fees take 10% off the top. I wish I could afford to buy it.

The CMP forum has a very active for sale section and bayonets are good movers.

Winchester_73 · May 14, 2012, 10:02 AM

Quote:

I would look at what is listed on EB and maybe list it as a "buy it now" with the price you would like to see. If it doesn't sell you can always lower the price. The finial value fees and pay pal fees take 10% off the top. I wish I could afford to buy it.

I've sold many things on ebay. I disagree with this advice. A piece like this would do great with a 0.99 no reserve 10 day auction. Start it on Thursday about 9pm and make it for 10 days.

Btw, you may say "99 cents NR, well what if all I get is $50" and that my friend is impossible. Bayonets are hot esp WWII stuff. There are so many guys, like vultures, waiting to swoop down on bayonet listings. Also remember that some people will bid hoping to get a good deal, but change their mind at the end and rationalize spending more.

Now of course, you have to do your part. You have to take good photos and type up a good description. Also, your title is important. Fill up the secondary title line with pertinent stuff. Here is an example.

Some would auction it and call it this

Quote:

M1 garand bayonet

I would do this instead

Quote:

M1 M-1 Garand rifle 30-06 bayonet WT maker w scabbard RARE
WWII dagger gun rifle 3006

The reason for both "M1" and "M-1" is because they produce different search results. The more you have in your title, the more hits you get, then the more watchers you get, then the more bidders for ultimately more money. When you have such a special item, refrain from using a buy it now because you may get more than what you want with an auction listing. I have gotten more than I wanted many times, and this is my recipe.

ALWAYS have the auction end Sunday night / evening and for good items like this, make it 10 days.

Chris_B · May 14, 2012, 05:26 PM

Is WT Wilde Drop forge and tool?

James K · May 14, 2012, 07:15 PM

Yes. See Posts 3 and 5.

Jim

Chris_B · May 14, 2012, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Yes. See Posts 3 and 5.

Thanks Jim

Check out post 2

madcratebuilder · May 15, 2012, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Btw, you may say "99 cents NR, well what if all I get is $50" and that my friend is impossible. Bayonets are hot esp WWII stuff. There are so many guys, like vultures, waiting to swoop down on bayonet listings. Also remember that some people will bid hoping to get a good deal, but change their mind at the end and rationalize spending more.

90%+ of the time this is correct, but there are a few that go for well under the market value, not many, but it does happen.

Be sure and get the listing title correct, with over 45,000 bayonets listed on evil bay it could get lost. Prices seem to be trending down

RC20 · May 19, 2012, 05:04 PM

Thanks for the input

I figure they go up and down but average is up.

Rare enough that if it drops I can wait a few years for the 75 anniversary of the M1 and back up.

I have been looking through the books and a lot of M1s are shown with the long bayonets well past 43.

It will make a great addition to someones gun some day

Chris_B · May 19, 2012, 07:00 PM

Yes, many examples of the 16" bayonet were used through WW2. For example, in the ETO, they were thought useful for probing for mines due to the longer length. Plenty of photos of a 16" bayonet on an M1 in the PTO. But overall, anybody that has tried to sit down with that 16" bayonet on their ammo belt probably appreciated the 10" long ones

James K · May 19, 2012, 08:14 PM

The 16" bayonet came about in an interesting way. The Krag rifle had a 30" barrel and a knife bayonet with a 10" blade. When the new M1903 rifle was adopted, its rod bayonet was restricted in length because of concerns that it would bend, and also the feeling that with a fast loading rifle a bayonet was not really necessary and would rarely be used.

But when the M1903 was modified in 1905 to take a knife bayonet (the reason the rifle is the M1903 and the bayonet the M1905), it was felt desireable to duplicate the "reach" of the Krag rifle, which was six inches longer than that of the new Springfield. So the six inches taken from the barrel was put onto the bayonet and the M1905 bayonet has a 16" blade.

Jim

May 13, 2012, 05:39 PM	#1
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	Model 1905 Bayonet WT Mfg When I was a kid I bought a bayonet through NRA magazine (best I can recall). Sometime around 1960. It turned out my younger brother wound up with it and gave it to me recently as he is clearing stuff out and as we were telling stories remembered it was mine. My brothers and I have been getting my dads 1903 Sporter back into shooting condition and its spiraled off into one of the brothers picking up a group of 1903s and getting them back to original condition and has a lot of basic data He though the bayonet was worth some significant money (by our standards) and I have researched it. Turns out it has some value. This one has a good provenance and the WT cross bar matches the marks on the blade (date of ownership and with the family since bought). Its WT made so fairly rare, still the 16 inch length. Seems to be excellent condition from what I can see for sale though it has a few dings on the blade and the butt got used to hammer things so some dings there. Functions just fine for locking onto a 1903 (we have tested it on my brothers guns) Also saw one that has a poor bakelite handles fit, this one is very closely matches. 1943 mfg so it can be matched up to two month period. More or less at some point I am going to sell it as it does not have a lot of nostalgia. Mostly interested where the best place to sell something like that would be. More or less looking for the intense serious group or groups who would have major interest in it. While I would as much as I can get I also want it to go to someone who appreciates it (don’t want to ebay it) As its correct for both the 1903 and the M1 connections into both groups would be good. Scabbard is wrong for the bayonet but seems to have some value on its own (Navy Mk 1) and is also in good condition with one ding on the edge. Pretty amazing condition for both items period, let alone it was used to do war on devils clubs (which I quickly found I was loosing badly).

May 13, 2012, 09:01 PM	#4
Winchester_73 Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2008 Location: Pittsburgh PA Posts: 2,863	I would personally ebay such an item. I have saw a lot on there go for more than its worth. Sounds like a neat bayonet. I never heard of this maker you and Jim K speak of so I assume it to be a rare maker. The original scabbard has a big impact on the value. The "US" in the flaming bomb is the correct one, with the "USN" above "MK2" being a common replacement scabbard although that replacement would have been done post war. Nice 16 in bayonets with original scabbards usually go for for $250 + on ebay. Some early 1903s (same bayonet, but earlier, with diff scabbard and grips) can go for $400 or more, depending on several factors. __________________ Winchester 73, the TFL user that won the west

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May 13, 2012, 07:45 PM	#2
Chris_B Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2007 Posts: 3,101	Only "WT" I could imagine is Wilde Drop Forge and Tool Company You could try usmilitariaforum.com

May 13, 2012, 08:31 PM	#3
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	W T is Wlide Drop Forge and Tool Co., then located in Kansas City, MO; today Wilde Tool Co., the new name, is in Hiawatha, KS. Jim

May 13, 2012, 10:44 PM	#5
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	The WT is Wilde Drop Forge and Tool. Popular research says 60k made. I do not think there were that many. The assigned production (or agreed) was 60k, but they had problems (it looks like all bayonet mfgs did with tooling and material being on the bottom of the priority list) They may have been assigned 60k, but they did not make them or they would not have had the contract whacked. WT was the most troublesome bayonet contractor. Probably because they had less clout than anyone, though the bayonet I have is well made and well fitted. This would be a rare amongst rare as being 1943, they only produced them in Jan and Feb (contract canceled) so very few 1943s and the only ones you could pin down that close an actual month mfg date. The Scabbard is incorrect though its possible they saw field service. Its supposed to be issued for the plastic practice bayonet used by the US Navy (no idea, apparently they did not issue real bayonets on ship or used army ones, go figure). So its a mis matched set which is fine as each has its own value.

May 14, 2012, 07:06 AM	#6
madcratebuilder Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2007 Location: Northern Orygun Posts: 4,923	Evil bay seems to get you great prices on items like this. I would look at what is listed on EB and maybe list it as a "buy it now" with the price you would like to see. If it doesn't sell you can always lower the price. The finial value fees and pay pal fees take 10% off the top. I wish I could afford to buy it. The CMP forum has a very active for sale section and bayonets are good movers.

May 14, 2012, 05:26 PM	#8
Chris_B Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2007 Posts: 3,101	Is WT Wilde Drop forge and tool?

May 14, 2012, 07:15 PM	#9
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Yes. See Posts 3 and 5. Jim

May 19, 2012, 05:04 PM	#12
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	Thanks for the input I figure they go up and down but average is up. Rare enough that if it drops I can wait a few years for the 75 anniversary of the M1 and back up. I have been looking through the books and a lot of M1s are shown with the long bayonets well past 43. It will make a great addition to someones gun some day

May 19, 2012, 07:00 PM	#13
Chris_B Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2007 Posts: 3,101	Yes, many examples of the 16" bayonet were used through WW2. For example, in the ETO, they were thought useful for probing for mines due to the longer length. Plenty of photos of a 16" bayonet on an M1 in the PTO. But overall, anybody that has tried to sit down with that 16" bayonet on their ammo belt probably appreciated the 10" long ones

May 19, 2012, 08:14 PM	#14
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The 16" bayonet came about in an interesting way. The Krag rifle had a 30" barrel and a knife bayonet with a 10" blade. When the new M1903 rifle was adopted, its rod bayonet was restricted in length because of concerns that it would bend, and also the feeling that with a fast loading rifle a bayonet was not really necessary and would rarely be used. But when the M1903 was modified in 1905 to take a knife bayonet (the reason the rifle is the M1903 and the bayonet the M1905), it was felt desireable to duplicate the "reach" of the Krag rifle, which was six inches longer than that of the new Springfield. So the six inches taken from the barrel was put onto the bayonet and the M1905 bayonet has a 16" blade. Jim