If you HAD to carry ball ammo for SD in a 45, which brand of ammo would it be and why?

[Stats Shooter]

Since we all know (or the OP assumes we do) that .45 ball is totally useless, barely better than throwing spitballs, and that any of the new super duper ammo will work better 1000 percent of the time, with one shot kills at 200 miles, I see no reason to worry about silly things like whether it feeds, or works the gun, or fits in the magazine. Just buy anything the ads in the gunzines say to buy and load up, ready for anything. (Or not.)

What?

I never said, or inferred that. I just said it has been beaten to death and it wasn't the point of this thread. I just wanted to see what ball ammo folks Would rely on if their preferred Jhp option wasn't possible. If you already do carry ball, just comment on what you carry. No need for the overly sensitive, defensive, attitude.

[ballardw]

Probably the same handloads I use for practice though most are cast lead and not FMJ.

[Stats Shooter]

One thing this thread has revealed to me that I didn't expect was that folks are mainly paying the premium prices when they buy their SD ammo for the bullet and do not value the supposed quality control of designated SD ammo.

There are match grade brands of ball ammo quality like federal gold medal match, buffalo bore, Underwood, black hills, and probably some others I am missing made with match grade primers, brass, powder consistency and fmj bullets. Yet lots of responses say they would just use plinking ammo.

I guess I could be wrong and it's the fact that the low cost practice ammo today is that good, or it must be that the only component you will pay more for is the bullet.

It's interesting too then as a hand loader because I can make SD quality ammo using a Hornady xtp for about $0.28/round and target ammo using a fmj for about $0.15/round. Yet if I could markup the same as big ammo makers I would only make $0.05/ round on target ammo and $0.70/ round on SD ammo. (over component cost for me personally, I'm sure big ammo makers have more overhead but get components cheaper)

Not a knock on anyone, just an ovservation.

[bamaranger]

I believe Hornady discontinued that load, but I bought a small quantity back in the day, and have a couple of SIG mags so loaded at this time. The argument was made that the truncated FP hit a bit harder than conventional RN ball. One fan of that load was none other than Jeff Cooper.

I still buy that slug as a cast bullet, it arrives as a 225 gr projectile, I'm not sure where my last 500 of those came from, but the SIG shoots them well.

[CDW4ME]

Originally Posted by Stats Shooter

One thing this thread has revealed to me that I didn't expect was that folks are mainly paying the premium prices when they buy their SD ammo for the bullet and do not value the supposed quality control of designated SD ammo.

There are match grade brands of ball ammo quality like federal gold medal match, buffalo bore, Underwood, black hills, and probably some others I am missing made with match grade primers, brass, powder consistency and fmj bullets. Yet lots of responses say they would just use plinking ammo.

Thread specifies if you HAD to carry ball ammo.
Most do not have to and don't, me included.

Betting my life, I'll take 230 HST or Ranger T over FMJ.
If I had no more decent HP and all I had left was FMJ it would be Winchester white box or my 230 FMJ reload cause thats what I have other than preferred HP SD ammo and I know they function.

Match grade primers, utmost consistency ect... doesn't align with HAD to and FMJ for for SD - FMJ "HAD to" is more like ran out of ammo, zombie apocalypse - IMO.

[Stats Shooter]

Thread specifies if you HAD to carry ball ammo.
Most do not have to and don't, me included.

Betting my life, I'll take 230 HST or Ranger T over FMJ.
If I had no more decent HP and all I had left was FMJ it would be Winchester white box or my 230 FMJ reload cause thats what I have other than preferred HP SD ammo and I know they function.

Match grade primers, utmost consistency ect... doesn't align with HAD to and FMJ for for SD - FMJ "HAD to" is more like ran out of ammo, zombie apocalypse - IMO.

I get what you are saying, but desperation wasn't what I had in mind. I guess I was asking what ball ammo you would bet your life on if HP's were hypothetically banned in your state or something and ball ammo was all you could carry.

[BigJimP]

Montana Gold is the bullet I prefer, 230gr, FMJ RN......its a true jacketed bullet...and consistent high quality. ...much better than plated bullets in my view. I have loaded a lot of Montana Gold bullets over the years, its a product I trust.

If I were to buy ball ammo for defense... I would look at Buffalo Bore or Black Hills probably...but I think all that Buffalo bore offers in is a cast lead bullet in 255 gr..unless you go with a lighter bullet.

Federal Guard Dog looks interesting...but its 165.gr...and I have no experience with it. Maybe the Federal gold match is a good choice...

[CDW4ME]

Originally Posted by Stats Shooter

I get what you are saying, but desperation wasn't what I had in mind. I guess I was asking what ball ammo you would bet your life on if HP's were hypothetically banned in your state or something and ball ammo was all you could carry.

Expanding Full Metal Jacket / Guard Dog:

[bp22]

I like federal AE and the older win milatary ball, but the key is function and I really don't like to go over about 880fps for the hope a little slower would give a good stretch cavity.

[Water-Man]

I'm satisfied with Black Hills 230gr. FMJ.

[JJ45]

Shoot all kinds of 230 ball in my 45s. S&B, WWB, Rem, Privi, Fed, Speer, etc. It's all the same to me. Some might smell different and MIGHT shoot a little dirtier but all shoot to the same POA and accurate enough for defense purposes.

[Cosmodragoon]

I haven't noticed serious quality control problems with normal .45 ACP FMJ/TMJ rounds from Wal-Mart. They go bang as often as similar stock in 9mm and .40 S&W, which is almost always. I don't shoot through a chronograph but at least a few times a year, I get around to shooting water jugs and other creative targets with .45 ACP. I haven't noticed any glaring variance in how destructive they are to such media.

Then again, I suppose the premium rounds might get more care at the factory. Also, if we are going to use non-expanding bullets, why not use the best ones we can? That said, is there a reason it has to be FMJ? Technology has come a long way and there are some interesting copper solids on the market now.

This is the "Xtreme Penetrator" from Lehigh. Underwood loads them in a variety of calibers, including .45 ACP (not pictured). The mechanics are sound and in gel tests, they seem to offer a good balance between penetration and disruption.

[In The Ten Ring]

Lehigh bullets! Tn9outdoors did a gel test on that on youtube, it penetrated for days!

I have carried a 1911 Commander for EDC, it was fine under a jacket OWB. There were a few times, I cannot remember why, that I carried FMJ. I felt completely fine. I think the ammo was PMC or possibly Speer Lawman. Any FMJ maker would have done though.

Why? I think Jeff Cooper did the same thing and hey, it's already .45 caliber even if it doesn't expand.

[peterg7]

Originally Posted by Stats Shooter

One thing this thread has revealed to me that I didn't expect was that folks are mainly paying the premium prices when they buy their SD ammo for the bullet and do not value the supposed quality control of designated SD ammo.



There are match grade brands of ball ammo quality like federal gold medal match, buffalo bore, Underwood, black hills, and probably some others I am missing made with match grade primers, brass, powder consistency and fmj bullets. Yet lots of responses say they would just use plinking ammo.



I guess I could be wrong and it's the fact that the low cost practice ammo today is that good, or it must be that the only component you will pay more for is the bullet.



It's interesting too then as a hand loader because I can make SD quality ammo using a Hornady xtp for about $0.28/round and target ammo using a fmj for about $0.15/round. Yet if I could markup the same as big ammo makers I would only make $0.05/ round on target ammo and $0.70/ round on SD ammo. (over component cost for me personally, I'm sure big ammo makers have more overhead but get components cheaper)



Not a knock on anyone, just an ovservation.

I believe the MO for today’s non reloader is to buy a couple of boxes of SD magic bullets at a buck a round to carry. then spend the bulk of the ammo budget on cheap crap for practice.

My goal has always been to practice with what I carry but being poor I can’t afford the magic bullets so I’m forced to either carry a cheaper jhp or look for a better quality fmj


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[pete2]

230 ball made in USA.

[seeker_two]

Winchester Train .45ACP. The flatnose bullet is more destructive on tissue than rounded FMJ.

https://www.luckygunner.com/45-acp-2...ster-50-rounds

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[mr bolo]

The Winchester Service grade 230gr FMJ would make a good defense load

it's loaded to GI specs, a little more velocity than standard range ammo

similar to a GI .45 load

[Cosmodragoon]

Lehigh bullets! Tn9outdoors did a gel test on that on youtube, it penetrated for days!

He ruled them out in favor of hollow-points due to over-penetration. I think most non-expanding ammo is going to over-penetrate and that goes for FMJ as well. He did acknowledge the nice wound pattern made by the Xtreme Penetrator and I think that matters here.

Coincidentally, Lehigh makes an "Xtreme Defender" series with different fluting. The same reviewer tested those and the different angle does cause them to stop earlier. I know another popular YouTube reviewer on the Military Arms Channel uses this as his regular carry ammo.

BTW, the Xtreme Penetrators might be nice for woods carry...

[kenny53]

The 45 acp 230 gr ball has been a fight stopper for over 100 years. Any brand that post 850 fps or close to it I figure is good.

[Rifletom]

Once again, I agree with mr bolo. The Win Service ammo is some very good ammo to have on hand. Also agree with kenny53.

[Danoobie]

Either Fiocchi, S&B, or PPU. They all make clean ammo, and seem a notch better than
most others, IME.

[revolvergeek]

One of the Lawman Flat Point TMJ loads if it was factory ammo. All other things being generally equal I would prefer a meplat of some sort on my FMJ. The 200 +p load has a certain charm but most likely just the Speer Lawman 230 grain TMJ FN ammo - 53658. VERY cheap for 50 round boxes if you shop it right.

[hdwhit]

Stats Shooter asked:
If you HAD to carry ball ammo for SD in a 45, which brand of ammo would it be and why?

Whatever 200 or 230 grain load was on sale. Then, take the money you saved and buy some more time on the range learning how to shoot it accurately.

Any 45 ACP bullet has enough mass and enough velocity to be lethal.

Differences in lethality between different loadings and different bullet configurations are theoretical. Unless you can both 1) predict the circumstances under which you would need to use the gun in self-defense before you chose the cartridge, and 2) could say with certainty what the bullet was going to encounter as it passed through your target, such theoretical differences are meaningless.

For all you know when you make your choice, you may have just picked a load that performs optimally passing through muscle and far but when you have to shoot your shot encounters a bone less than three-quarters of an inch into the target is deflected and passes out of the target.

[hdwhit]

peterg7 wrote:
I believe the MO for today’s non reloader is to buy a couple of boxes of SD magic bullets at a buck a round to carry. then spend the bulk of the ammo budget on cheap crap for practice.

I agree with you that is the advice currently given to a lot of people.

Of course, the person who follows that advice has to hope that the $1 a piece "magic bullets" actually end up performing like the ones they shoot in practice.

The fact of the matter is that to become an expert with $1 "magic bullets" the shooter has to shoot $1 "magic bullets" on a regular basis or else they're not going to know what to expect when they do use them.

[5whiskey]

Much ado has been made about match primers and careful control of charge weight by premium ammo. As a reloader, I haven't noticed a bit of difference in realistic accuracy or velocity by using cheap S&B primers over federal match primers, or by exactly measuring powder to the grain versus using a crappy Lee autodisk , in standard auto pistol rounds. I've loaded both. Now in some calibers, like 357 mag, some powders seem to do better with a magnum match primer (yes you HS6). Excluding these exceptions, I don't think primers make a bill of beans difference in many cases.

Further i did a test of rifle accuracy with carefully (+/- .1 grain) weighed charges versus sloppily (+/- 2.5 grains) weighed charges. I don't have repeatable measured accuracy in pistol rounds that I consider reliable enough to test the accuracy of the gun/ammo combo. I am confident in my equipment and abilities with several rifles i own to actually test this. What I found was that tedious weighing of charge weight in rifle calibers (.223, 7-08, 308, and 270) showed virtually no advantage over sloppy measured (basically just used a dipper, but tested and found I was reliably in a .5 or +/- 2.5 gn range) charge. Of the calibers tested, .223 benefited the most by carefully measured charge weights. Which makes sense since a .5 grain range is around a 2.5% variance, whereas in .270 a .5 grain range is a 1% variance. Either way, there was no glaringly obvious difference in any caliber. I averaged 10 5-found groups during this test, and the dipped charges did not show any disadvantage over carefully weighed charges except groups opened up by about .1 moa in .223.


All this to say, range ammo is likely as reliable and as accurate as premium ammo in pistol rounds. Velocity may not quite be there in some cases, and cheap range ammo like wwb is well known to be rather sooty, but you won't find a real world accuracy nor a reliability difference in name brand ammo in most cases. I would not include some of the known garbage ammo makers in this.