According to Chris Baker, Lever Action Rifles reputation for ruggedness/reliability is undeserved. - Page 4

Scorch · December 12, 2020, 01:22 AM

As a gunsmith, I see broken stocks quite a bit, typically in 2-piece stocks like lever actions and shotguns, and typically due to dropping the gun or falling on the gun. They usually split along the grain through the pistol grip, starting at the inlet for the tang and hammer. Shotguns split along the draw bolt hole.

1-piece stocks are a lot sturdier, but still break from seemingly trivial events, like being dropped on the butt or falling over when leaned on a truck/wall/desk/bench. Often, they shatter or shiver due to falling on a hard floor, splitting along the grain throughout the whole stock. And then there are horses . . .

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If I had to go into thick stuff after a very mean critter (Alaskan coastal griz), I'd want an old school Marlin 1895 loaded with max loaded .45/70 rounds.

Marlin 1895s (and the 336 model they are developed from) are not "old school" in any way. The 336 was developed in the 1950s. The previous model, the model 36, was an update to the 1936, which was an updated 1893. But the 336 was totally different.

jetinteriorguy · December 12, 2020, 12:33 PM

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Originally Posted by Rob228

I've got this crazy feeling if I swung it by the barrel the stock would snap off at the tang, If I tried to butt stroke it would do the same thing. Which just leaves muzzle punching which is just awkward.

I see what you mean, but if I swing it by the barrel I’d do in such a way that it was the receiver making contact, not the stock. But, using it to buttstroke someone sure wouldn’t hurt it. I keep thinking of AR’s as back with the M16 if you swung it the stock and buffer tube were toast, I’d bet swinging an AR15 would snap the buffer tube off like a twig, pretty much rendering it useless whereas a lever with the stock broken off could still fire most likely.

**44 AMP** · December 12, 2020, 12:43 PM

Neither the AR nor the lever gun are good choices for hand to hand combat AND having the gun survive in functional condition.

There's a reason GI bolt actions weigh 8-9lbs, and it isn't to keep soldiers fit carrying them.

Saw my uncle slip and fall on his Marlin, buttstock snapped right off.

Worked as a Small Arms Repairman in the Army. M16s (AR's) DO break.

when considering which rifle is better for "beating someone to death" with, I am reminded of the wisdom of my DI when he explained why they were not teaching us that, or use of the bayonet...

"The Army, in it's infinite wisdom, has determined that, should you face an enemy in hand to hand combat, the odds are extremely high that one of you will have ammunition. If that's you. SHOOT THEM! IF its not, well, some days, sucks to be you!"

Shadow9mm · December 14, 2020, 10:29 AM

From just a basic perspective, the more moving parts, the more things that can fail. It would make sense to me that a lever gun would be more prone to failure as it does have a lot going on.

jetinteriorguy · December 15, 2020, 07:26 PM

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Originally Posted by Shadow9mm

From just a basic perspective, the more moving parts, the more things that can fail. It would make sense to me that a lever gun would be more prone to failure as it does have a lot going on.

I don’t buy this, if the design is strong and the parts are properly made any machine can be better than a poorer designed machine with fewer more poorly manufactured parts. It’s more about quality in design and parts than the number of parts that determine how good something works. And then there is also the problems in proper cleaning and maintenance and the impact that has on durability.

gb_in_ga · December 16, 2020, 12:14 AM

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From just a basic perspective, the more moving parts, the more things that can fail. It would make sense to me that a lever gun would be more prone to failure as it does have a lot going on.

FWIW, revolvers are considered to be pretty reliable. Their mechanisms are actually complex. But they are "mature". Oh, and the number of parts and complexity of a pump shotgun and a lever action rifle are about the same. They work on similar principles. Nobody really questions the reliability of pump shotguns. Both pump action shotguns and lever action rifles are now able to be considered "mature". OTOH, autoloaders have their own reliability issues, and in many cases have a high degree of complexity.

Parts count and complexity really aren't all that relevant regarding reliability. The maturity of the design is more important.

perpster · December 16, 2020, 07:33 PM

One thing drummed into our heads when I started at my agency was how reliable revolvers are, and unreliable semi-autos are. In general, that may be true, but it seems that when a revolver fails in the field, it usually becomes pretty much a weighted throwing weapon, but when a semi-auto fails in the field, it can often be remedied and back in action in seconds.

Of course, couple of decades later, the drumming changed to how reliable semi-autos are, as the agency switched over to semi-autos.

I realize the dimensions and physics are different between a longarm and sidearm, but since I'm posting here anyway... Once saw a Glock 19 or Glock 26 hit a ceramic tile floor from table-height. The Glock let out a small Tupperware burp. The tile got permanently chipped.

December 12, 2020, 12:43 PM	#78
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,835	Neither the AR nor the lever gun are good choices for hand to hand combat AND having the gun survive in functional condition. There's a reason GI bolt actions weigh 8-9lbs, and it isn't to keep soldiers fit carrying them. Saw my uncle slip and fall on his Marlin, buttstock snapped right off. Worked as a Small Arms Repairman in the Army. M16s (AR's) DO break. when considering which rifle is better for "beating someone to death" with, I am reminded of the wisdom of my DI when he explained why they were not teaching us that, or use of the bayonet... "The Army, in it's infinite wisdom, has determined that, should you face an enemy in hand to hand combat, the odds are extremely high that one of you will have ammunition. If that's you. SHOOT THEM! IF its not, well, some days, sucks to be you!" __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

December 14, 2020, 10:29 AM	#79
Shadow9mm Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 3,974	From just a basic perspective, the more moving parts, the more things that can fail. It would make sense to me that a lever gun would be more prone to failure as it does have a lot going on. __________________ I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload.

December 16, 2020, 07:33 PM	#82
perpster Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2006 Posts: 185	One thing drummed into our heads when I started at my agency was how reliable revolvers are, and unreliable semi-autos are. In general, that may be true, but it seems that when a revolver fails in the field, it usually becomes pretty much a weighted throwing weapon, but when a semi-auto fails in the field, it can often be remedied and back in action in seconds. Of course, couple of decades later, the drumming changed to how reliable semi-autos are, as the agency switched over to semi-autos. I realize the dimensions and physics are different between a longarm and sidearm, but since I'm posting here anyway... Once saw a Glock 19 or Glock 26 hit a ceramic tile floor from table-height. The Glock let out a small Tupperware burp. The tile got permanently chipped.