C&R Bound Book Information?

GunXpatriot · February 16, 2013, 10:33 PM

So I just bought a gun from a C&R holder, and to my knowledge, they must collect information when receiving a firearm and disposing of a firearm. He is asking for my license number and date of birth. Would any of you know if that is a legitimate request? I mean he is asking once a day, and I feel like I'm trying to avoid the guy, but the truth is, I don't know enough about this to trust it. Can someone help me? Thanks a lot!

Evan Thomas · February 16, 2013, 11:15 PM

In short -- yes, he's required to record that information if you're not also a licensed collector.

(f) Firearms receipt and disposition by licensed collectors. (1) Each licensed collector shall enter into a record each receipt and disposition of firearms curios or relics. The record required by this paragraph shall be maintained in bound form under the format prescribed below.
<snip>
The sale or other disposition of a curio or relic shall be recorded by the licensed collector not later than 7 days following the date of such transaction. When such disposition is made to a licensee, the commercial record of the transaction shall be retained, until the transaction is recorded, separate from other commercial documents maintained by the licensee, and be readily available for inspection. The record shall show the date of the sale or other disposition of each firearm curio or relic, the name and address of the person to whom the firearm curio or relic is transferred, or the name and license number of the person to whom transferred if such person is a licensee, and the date of birth of the transferee if other than a licensee. In addition, the licensee shall cause the transferee, if other than a licensee, to be identified in any manner customarily used in commercial transactions (e.g., a driver's license), and note on the record the method used.

Note that he's supposed to do this within 7 days, so that's why he's bugging you about it.

kilimanjaro · February 17, 2013, 03:29 AM

Yes, it's a legitimate request, give him the information. I'm surprised he didn't get it at the time of sale, guess he forgot about the requirements. The information stays in his C&R records and will not be seen by the gov't unless they perform an audit of his records. I doubt if they would even run a NICS check on you during their audit, I've not heard of that happening.

Technosavant · February 17, 2013, 08:54 AM

ATF audits of C&R FFLs are extremely rare. I've only ever heard of one happening. When a C&R FFL gives up the license the records are destroyed and not sent to the ATF.

It's a legit request and not likely to lead to any issues with stolen personal data.

NC Cruffler · February 18, 2013, 05:47 PM

As a decades old C&R licensee I have been "audited" once as a result of a poorly packaged Spanish FR8 rifle with the barrel and muzzle break protruding through the cardboard box as it tried to pass through the USPS.

I had a USPS inspector and a BATFE agent together knocking on my door with the boxed rifle in hand. Fortunately, I was able to show that I was currently licensed, had purchased the rifle legitimately off of Gun Broker, and was able to pull up the auction on my laptop and show them the photographs on the auction that matched the now unwrapped rifle.

When the BATFE agent asked to see my bound book I politely asked him why since the rifle in question had just been delivered and had yet to be logged in. He said, You've got a point there, Mr. Green", and he and the USPS inspectors thanked me for my cooperation and left.

February 16, 2013, 10:33 PM	#1
GunXpatriot Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2011 Location: New York Posts: 393	C&R Bound Book Information? So I just bought a gun from a C&R holder, and to my knowledge, they must collect information when receiving a firearm and disposing of a firearm. He is asking for my license number and date of birth. Would any of you know if that is a legitimate request? I mean he is asking once a day, and I feel like I'm trying to avoid the guy, but the truth is, I don't know enough about this to trust it. Can someone help me? Thanks a lot!

February 16, 2013, 11:15 PM	#2
Evan Thomas Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2008 Location: Upper midwest Posts: 5,631	In short -- yes, he's required to record that information if you're not also a licensed collector. (f) Firearms receipt and disposition by licensed collectors. (1) Each licensed collector shall enter into a record each receipt and disposition of firearms curios or relics. The record required by this paragraph shall be maintained in bound form under the format prescribed below. <snip> The sale or other disposition of a curio or relic shall be recorded by the licensed collector not later than 7 days following the date of such transaction. When such disposition is made to a licensee, the commercial record of the transaction shall be retained, until the transaction is recorded, separate from other commercial documents maintained by the licensee, and be readily available for inspection. The record shall show the date of the sale or other disposition of each firearm curio or relic, the name and address of the person to whom the firearm curio or relic is transferred, or the name and license number of the person to whom transferred if such person is a licensee, and the date of birth of the transferee if other than a licensee. In addition, the licensee shall cause the transferee, if other than a licensee, to be identified in any manner customarily used in commercial transactions (e.g., a driver's license), and note on the record the method used. Note that he's supposed to do this within 7 days, so that's why he's bugging you about it. __________________ Never let anything mechanical know you're in a hurry.

February 18, 2013, 05:47 PM	#5
NC Cruffler Member Join Date: September 14, 2010 Posts: 30	As a decades old C&R licensee I have been "audited" once as a result of a poorly packaged Spanish FR8 rifle with the barrel and muzzle break protruding through the cardboard box as it tried to pass through the USPS. I had a USPS inspector and a BATFE agent together knocking on my door with the boxed rifle in hand. Fortunately, I was able to show that I was currently licensed, had purchased the rifle legitimately off of Gun Broker, and was able to pull up the auction on my laptop and show them the photographs on the auction that matched the now unwrapped rifle. When the BATFE agent asked to see my bound book I politely asked him why since the rifle in question had just been delivered and had yet to be logged in. He said, You've got a point there, Mr. Green", and he and the USPS inspectors thanked me for my cooperation and left. __________________ Dave Green NRA Benefactor Member

February 17, 2013, 03:29 AM	#3
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	Yes, it's a legitimate request, give him the information. I'm surprised he didn't get it at the time of sale, guess he forgot about the requirements. The information stays in his C&R records and will not be seen by the gov't unless they perform an audit of his records. I doubt if they would even run a NICS check on you during their audit, I've not heard of that happening.

February 17, 2013, 08:54 AM	#4
Technosavant Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2007 Location: St. Louis, MO area Posts: 4,040	ATF audits of C&R FFLs are extremely rare. I've only ever heard of one happening. When a C&R FFL gives up the license the records are destroyed and not sent to the ATF. It's a legit request and not likely to lead to any issues with stolen personal data.