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April 17, 2022, 07:15 AM | #26 |
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John, I would argue that the System is working -- when called & held to account.
It's that last part that when negligently -- or deliberately -- ignored, makes a mockery of equal protection under the Law. (And no.... temptation aside I won't go off topic in expansion) Correct me if in error, but in the subway case I'm told the Feds went from Serial# --> GLOCK --> Dealer --> Retailer... who had the record of sale. Bottom up... |
April 17, 2022, 07:22 AM | #27 | |
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I'm not saying that it always happens that way, that would be as much of a mistake as saying it never does.
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April 17, 2022, 09:37 AM | #28 | |
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April 17, 2022, 12:06 PM | #29 | |||
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April 17, 2022, 01:29 PM | #30 | |
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Maybe we both are at each extremes of the conversation and the reality is somewhere in the middle . The question to me is , should there be a middle ? With out direct and continued consequences for violating A, B & C it is inevitable people will push to D, E & F . Do we really believe if this subway guy would have been charged and convicted of any number of his priors the subway shooting still would have happened ? Maybe yes maybe no but it would seem at minimum less likely . Don't we see this countless time in many of this incidents . Red flags or straight up crimes being committed by the shooter well before they take it to the next level ?
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April 17, 2022, 03:06 PM | #31 |
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All that can be said with certainty is that, had the shooter been convicted and become a prohibited person, he could not have LEGALLY bought or possessed a gun.
Beyond that, its all conjecture. i think it quite likely that someone with the intention of committing MURDER (and a history of criminal offenses to boot) would not be stopped by not being able to legally have a gun. Until, unless someone states that they didn't shoot people because they couldn't legally have a gun, it doesn't matter, and even if they make such a statement, it only applies to them, personally, not to the world at large. Personally, I only see two ways to stop these kinds of shootings, one is impossible (removing all guns from planet earth) though a lot of people mistakenly think it is possible. and the other is to convince would be shooters that they will be rapidly, physically, permanently and unpleasntly removed from society. And DO THAT to those who are unconvinced and actually commit the crimes. Probably wouldn't stop everyone, but I'd bet the rate of them happening would go waay down.
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April 17, 2022, 04:18 PM | #32 | ||
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My point is that the idea that the system is totally bankrupt is incorrect and there are counterexamples (in this case, one that is directly applicable and easy to find) that prove it. The system isn't perfect by any means, but neither is it totally bankrupt.
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April 17, 2022, 09:08 PM | #33 |
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Back in the late 60s (possibly early 70s) one of the "counterculture" authors had a saying...
"America is at that awkward point, too late to work within the system and too soon to start shooting the bastards". I don't think they were entirely right, or entirely wrong. Here we are 40+ years later, still at "that awkward point"..... in so many different ways.... Like most other things (and especially gun ownership) the improper actions of a FEW should NOT be used to characterize the entire group.
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