Why do people prefer pump actions over semi-auto? - Page 2

Technosavant · July 14, 2009, 09:38 AM

I've used both an 870 and a 1100 for skeet; I'm better with the 870.

Pumps aren't finicky about ammo- you can run them with just about anything, be it heavy or light. Semiautos don't always cycle with the really light loads or with some kinds of ammo (my 1100 just never liked cycling Federal bulk pack sporting loads). As others have said, there's less to go wrong with pumps. I don't feel any slower on the doubles with the pump than I was with the semi; you have to get the first one a bit quicker, but any disadvantage to semis or double barrels is very minor.

I have nothing against semiautos; one day I may invest in a nice Beretta 391, but so long as I can get it done with my 870 Tactical (you should see the looks I get with that thing), I see no need to change.

Hardcase · July 14, 2009, 10:17 AM

I started out skeet with a pump because I felt that it forced me to be more careful about taking the shot (as opposed to spraying a bunch of shot out there). I don't know how true that might be, but eventually, I just got used to the pump, so I never bought a semi-auto.

Got a pump Winchester .22, too.

oneounceload · July 14, 2009, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Pumps aren't finicky about ammo- you can run them with just about anything, be it heavy or light.

They might not be finicky about heavy vs. light, but they CAN be finicky about ammunition and jam.....they can also have issues with extraction, as evidenced by the plethora of threads and the Remington cheap 870 version.....For a gun that has no issues with "slightly off" shell lengths or extraction or jamming, a SxS or O/U work very well, (and also the single shot versions).

mathman · July 14, 2009, 10:55 AM

For most people it is only because they can't afford a GOOD semi auto.

I used to be a big fan of pumps...until I could afford a Benelli.

It really doesn't matter too much to me as to what others prefer...some are extremely effective with pumps and can shoot very fast and precisely with them. But, a person who is well trained and armed with a semi auto will ALWAYS shoot faster and more precisely than a similarly trained person with a pump...sorry, it's just a fact.

The bottom line is economics...period.

(Go ahead and flame...I'm ready.)

BTW - I still have (and love) my 870...but it doesn't get as much action as my Benelli.

neon · July 14, 2009, 10:58 AM

Semi's are for old men that shoot birds.

A true HD shotgun will always be a pump loaded with
00 buck.

greyson97 · July 14, 2009, 11:07 AM

It is a steeped in tradition sorta thing. and its like reverse snobbery. I bring my benelli to the range and some people are like cool, and the hard core pump guys give it that look, and when i offer some people to shoot it, some take it up eagerly, and some pass.

I started with a pump, and then got the semi. I never went back. Sometimes its so simple as muscle memory. The pump guy who used my semi tried to chamber a round after firing by pulling on the fixed forend.

and when i play with pumps, I always forget to pump a round, and just keep trying to pull the trigger.

stargazer65 · July 14, 2009, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Semi's are for old men that shoot birds.

Quote:

A true HD shotgun will always be a pump loaded with
00 buck.

Thanks. I'm glad you enlightened me neon, if I had tried to defend the home with my 1100, the buckshot would've just bounced off the BG.

RockyTop · July 14, 2009, 11:33 AM

Pumps are like...fun! And cheap too.

Fun and cheap are two of my favorite things.

AJG · July 14, 2009, 11:53 AM

+1 to all the above!

Brigadier · July 14, 2009, 11:55 AM

Pumps are more popular because that is what everyone has been brainwashed into thinking is more reliable, and that a semi auto will jam during a HD encounter.

Everyone seems to forget that under stress, people do short stroke a pump now and then.
Given that everyone's HD handguns and rifles are overwhelmingly autos, pull trigger, gun goes bang until empty, I am amazed how everyone poo poos the semi auto shotgun.
My 930 has been utterly reliable with everything I have fed it - full power buckshot and slugs, reduced recoil buckshot and slugs, and all sorts of trap loads. Never even hicupped.
Also, try shooting a pump while laying prone in a HD scenario....

greyson97 · July 14, 2009, 12:19 PM

and noone has even mentioned so far, that a pump, and sxs o/u kick way harder than semis. good semis have such a soft kick, you can shoot them all day and not bruise at all.

StiveC2007 · July 14, 2009, 12:26 PM

sometimes I want one shot, with a pump thats what you get.

greyson97 · July 14, 2009, 12:30 PM

Quote:

sometimes I want one shot, with a pump thats what you get.

um. you put one round in a semi. chamber it. pull the trigger, you get one shot, and it locks the bolt open.

neon · July 14, 2009, 12:33 PM

I do realize that arthritis can stop some folks from
racking one into the tube.

RoscoeC · July 14, 2009, 01:21 PM

Quote:

I do realize that arthritis can stop some folks from
racking one into the tube.

Yes Sir! I got my first auto loader because after a day at the range with a pump my left elbow hurt like the dickens for 3 days afterward.

mayosligo · July 14, 2009, 01:30 PM

I prefer the pump for home defense because of what a militari firearm's instructor once told me "the racking sound speaks all languages."

It tells the intruder very clearly they are about to have a serious problem on their hands and no matter what language you speak, you know that sound. Once an intruder hears the racking sound of a shotgun their brain

normally begins to tell the body to find the closest exit.

stargazer65 · July 14, 2009, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Once an intruder hears the racking sound of a shotgun their brain normally begins to tell the body to find the closest exit.

...or, it tells their brain where to aim and shoot.

Quote:

I do realize that arthritis can stop some folks from
racking one into the tube.

Oh please, and I guess you think semiauto pistols aren't for girls because they can't work the slide.

Excuse me now, I have to go gum my zwieback toast and recharge the wheelchair so I can go to range later.

treefarmernc · July 14, 2009, 02:00 PM

I personally like my 870 wingmaster above my autos probably because I have had it much longer and am most confident with it. I would like to also mention that I have noticed that many of those that have only ever had autos and nothing else seem to waste more ammo when hunting than those that started with either a single shot (like me) or a pump. I have hunted with a club composed of 40+ members for many years and those with autos seem to just unload at a deer rather than aim. Single shots and pump gun users tend to gain a one shot one kill habit. I’m not putting down users of semi-autos just those that think having one makes up for accuracy (or the lack of).

Technosavant · July 14, 2009, 02:31 PM

Some of you guys are taking this way too seriously/personally. We're not trying to convert each other, we're explaining our own positions. There IS a difference.

Funny thing about short stroking- I short stroke a LOT more with light loads than I do with full power 1 1/8 oz. loads- I never short stroke those, while 7/8 oz. will occasionally get me to do it. My theory is that it has to do with my left hand (I'm a righty) has an easier time getting a full stroke when pulling the gun down out of recoil. With a Knoxx SpecOps, I don't feel much recoil (it's as soft as a 1100, if not softer), but there is more energy to deal with.

Easy enough, I quit using light loads and started buying/using full power value pack loads.

And for the record, I've yet to find a load that won't work well in my 870- I've read some stuff about the Express not liking some kinds too, but I've seen some 1100s (mine included) that just won't work with some ammo brands.

stargazer65 · July 14, 2009, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Some of you guys are taking this way too seriously/personally.

You know, I'm just making jest with some of the old geezer comments that have been made.

Nothing serious or personal here.

For the record, I still have a pump action but I've just started to like autoloaders. Probably because I'm getting old.

greyson97 · July 14, 2009, 03:01 PM

I would like all of you to get off my lawn

oneounceload · July 14, 2009, 03:12 PM

Quote:

and sxs o/u kick way harder than semis. good semis have such a soft kick, you can shoot them all day and not bruise at all.

That is not necessarily true - it depends on the weight of the gun. All other factors being the same, the heavier the gun, the more it absorbs the recoil. My O/U is 8-1/2#, over a pound heavier than a typical semi.

greyeyezz · July 14, 2009, 03:17 PM

For me my 1187 was way too heavy to lug around the woods. Harder to clean than a pump also.

ADB · July 14, 2009, 03:21 PM

This has been a really interesting discussion, and a lot more good natured than I was afraid it could have been.

Not trying to convert anybody here, but a couple notes. Katrina Guy mentioned gas seal degradation--my Charles Daly takes standard O-ring seals which I can get at Valu for 50 cents. It also makes the same sound as a pump action when I rack it.

Not that I'm going to disagree with anybody who has a pump.

hogdogs · July 14, 2009, 03:29 PM

Quote:

sometimes I want one shot, with a pump thats what you get

We are talking semi-automatic autoloader... Not some highly modified 600RPM full auto street broom...

You can load a full tube in any autoloader and when you pull the trigger once "that's all you get"... If you want to pull the trigger once for one shot why not just use and NEF single?
Brent

July 14, 2009, 10:55 AM	#29
mathman Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2005 Location: SoCal Posts: 1,531	For most people it is only because they can't afford a GOOD semi auto. I used to be a big fan of pumps...until I could afford a Benelli. It really doesn't matter too much to me as to what others prefer...some are extremely effective with pumps and can shoot very fast and precisely with them. But, a person who is well trained and armed with a semi auto will ALWAYS shoot faster and more precisely than a similarly trained person with a pump...sorry, it's just a fact. The bottom line is economics...period. (Go ahead and flame...I'm ready.) BTW - I still have (and love) my 870...but it doesn't get as much action as my Benelli. __________________ Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak.

July 14, 2009, 01:30 PM	#41
mayosligo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 301	Pumps over autos I prefer the pump for home defense because of what a militari firearm's instructor once told me "the racking sound speaks all languages." It tells the intruder very clearly they are about to have a serious problem on their hands and no matter what language you speak, you know that sound. Once an intruder hears the racking sound of a shotgun their brain normally begins to tell the body to find the closest exit. __________________ I was court-martialed in my absence, and sentenced to death in my absence, so I said they could shoot me in my absence. - Brendan Behan

July 14, 2009, 02:00 PM	#43
treefarmernc Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2009 Posts: 186	I personally like my 870 wingmaster above my autos probably because I have had it much longer and am most confident with it. I would like to also mention that I have noticed that many of those that have only ever had autos and nothing else seem to waste more ammo when hunting than those that started with either a single shot (like me) or a pump. I have hunted with a club composed of 40+ members for many years and those with autos seem to just unload at a deer rather than aim. Single shots and pump gun users tend to gain a one shot one kill habit. I’m not putting down users of semi-autos just those that think having one makes up for accuracy (or the lack of). __________________ The mightiest oak in the forest was once only a little nut that stuck its ground.

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July 14, 2009, 09:38 AM	#26
Technosavant Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2007 Location: St. Louis, MO area Posts: 4,040	I've used both an 870 and a 1100 for skeet; I'm better with the 870. Pumps aren't finicky about ammo- you can run them with just about anything, be it heavy or light. Semiautos don't always cycle with the really light loads or with some kinds of ammo (my 1100 just never liked cycling Federal bulk pack sporting loads). As others have said, there's less to go wrong with pumps. I don't feel any slower on the doubles with the pump than I was with the semi; you have to get the first one a bit quicker, but any disadvantage to semis or double barrels is very minor. I have nothing against semiautos; one day I may invest in a nice Beretta 391, but so long as I can get it done with my 870 Tactical (you should see the looks I get with that thing), I see no need to change.

July 14, 2009, 10:17 AM	#27
Hardcase Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2009 Location: Sunny Southern Idaho Posts: 1,909	I started out skeet with a pump because I felt that it forced me to be more careful about taking the shot (as opposed to spraying a bunch of shot out there). I don't know how true that might be, but eventually, I just got used to the pump, so I never bought a semi-auto. Got a pump Winchester .22, too.

July 14, 2009, 10:58 AM	#30
neon Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2009 Posts: 196	Semi's are for old men that shoot birds. A true HD shotgun will always be a pump loaded with 00 buck.

July 14, 2009, 11:07 AM	#31
greyson97 Senior Member Join Date: June 29, 2009 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,284	It is a steeped in tradition sorta thing. and its like reverse snobbery. I bring my benelli to the range and some people are like cool, and the hard core pump guys give it that look, and when i offer some people to shoot it, some take it up eagerly, and some pass. I started with a pump, and then got the semi. I never went back. Sometimes its so simple as muscle memory. The pump guy who used my semi tried to chamber a round after firing by pulling on the fixed forend. and when i play with pumps, I always forget to pump a round, and just keep trying to pull the trigger.

July 14, 2009, 11:33 AM	#33
RockyTop Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2009 Posts: 106	Pumps are like...fun! And cheap too. Fun and cheap are two of my favorite things.

July 14, 2009, 11:53 AM	#34
AJG Member Join Date: November 21, 2008 Location: Virginia Posts: 88	+1 to all the above!

July 14, 2009, 11:55 AM	#35
Brigadier Member Join Date: June 3, 2009 Posts: 32	Pumps are more popular because that is what everyone has been brainwashed into thinking is more reliable, and that a semi auto will jam during a HD encounter. Everyone seems to forget that under stress, people do short stroke a pump now and then. Given that everyone's HD handguns and rifles are overwhelmingly autos, pull trigger, gun goes bang until empty, I am amazed how everyone poo poos the semi auto shotgun. My 930 has been utterly reliable with everything I have fed it - full power buckshot and slugs, reduced recoil buckshot and slugs, and all sorts of trap loads. Never even hicupped. Also, try shooting a pump while laying prone in a HD scenario....

July 14, 2009, 12:19 PM	#36
greyson97 Senior Member Join Date: June 29, 2009 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,284	and noone has even mentioned so far, that a pump, and sxs o/u kick way harder than semis. good semis have such a soft kick, you can shoot them all day and not bruise at all.

July 14, 2009, 12:26 PM	#37
StiveC2007 Senior Member Join Date: April 17, 2009 Posts: 237	sometimes I want one shot, with a pump thats what you get.

July 14, 2009, 12:33 PM	#39
neon Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2009 Posts: 196	I do realize that arthritis can stop some folks from racking one into the tube.

July 14, 2009, 02:31 PM	#44
Technosavant Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2007 Location: St. Louis, MO area Posts: 4,040	Some of you guys are taking this way too seriously/personally. We're not trying to convert each other, we're explaining our own positions. There IS a difference. Funny thing about short stroking- I short stroke a LOT more with light loads than I do with full power 1 1/8 oz. loads- I never short stroke those, while 7/8 oz. will occasionally get me to do it. My theory is that it has to do with my left hand (I'm a righty) has an easier time getting a full stroke when pulling the gun down out of recoil. With a Knoxx SpecOps, I don't feel much recoil (it's as soft as a 1100, if not softer), but there is more energy to deal with. Easy enough, I quit using light loads and started buying/using full power value pack loads. And for the record, I've yet to find a load that won't work well in my 870- I've read some stuff about the Express not liking some kinds too, but I've seen some 1100s (mine included) that just won't work with some ammo brands.

July 14, 2009, 03:01 PM	#46
greyson97 Senior Member Join Date: June 29, 2009 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,284	I would like all of you to get off my lawn

July 14, 2009, 03:17 PM	#48
greyeyezz Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2001 Location: N.E. OH Posts: 385	For me my 1187 was way too heavy to lug around the woods. Harder to clean than a pump also.

July 14, 2009, 03:21 PM	#49
ADB Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2009 Posts: 399	This has been a really interesting discussion, and a lot more good natured than I was afraid it could have been. Not trying to convert anybody here, but a couple notes. Katrina Guy mentioned gas seal degradation--my Charles Daly takes standard O-ring seals which I can get at Valu for 50 cents. It also makes the same sound as a pump action when I rack it. Not that I'm going to disagree with anybody who has a pump.