Guns in students cars.

[chexmix]

I am kinda on both sides on this one. Students shouldn't have guns on property but they were hunting before school and the guns were locked up in the car. Obviously they broke a law and should be punished. What do you think?



http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/inde...ntroversy.html

[Double Naught Spy]

Regardless of how things were in the past (and yeah, my father took a .22 to school, hunting on the way home), you don't get to break the law and break school rules. Some of the attitudes in the article were pretty funny.

Kathy Domanski’s sons, 16-year-old sophomore Kyle and 17-year-old junior Eric, were among the six suspended — and she believes the school specifically targeted students who were hunters and purposely did the search at the start of deer hunting season.

Well imagine that! When would you expect kids to bring guns to school. Hunting season would be a really good guess. I can't tell if she is upset because she thinks the school is being unfair or because her kid made such a blatantly stupid decision.

Domanski said she believes officials should have warned students not to bring hunting gear to school.

No doubt the kids had a student handbook with the rules in it and no doubt the signs around the school also state that guns aren't allowed (see picture in article). This isn't a new rule. Just how many warnings does she think her kid needs before he should get in trouble for breaking the rules? Her kids are 16 and 17. If they don't understand about rules by now, then maybe this is a really good heads-up lesson for them before they become adults and break "rules" for which they didn't have countless warnings and end up in jail or prison.

“I understand about the zero-tolerance (policy), but there was no threats involved,” Kathy Domanski said.

Fine. Nobody was threatened. That is why her kids were not arrested for assault or some other related charges. Since she understands the zero tolerance policy, then she should understand that no threat need be made for the bringing of guns on school property be considered breaking the rules, but based on her comments, she doesn't seem to understand this at all.

[mikejonestkd]

I'm in complete agreement with DNS on this one.
The parents in our district have to sign and date the code of conduct each year, and I am sure that the parents in the article had to at least review it every year. That's at least 10 opportunities to read the part about " No guns on school property " part.

Stupid parents, stupid kids. throw the book at them, they give the rest of us a bad name.

[hogdogs]

Bring in the ACLU!!!!

Profiling is what we have here!!!

I know of one k-12 PUBLIC school that they don't do these silly searches...

Sure if there is a threat they would nip it in the bud...

But if they were to search the parking lot of vehicles during general gun, they would have to expel a large portion of the already small student body and fire the majority of faculty and staff...

State law may say one thing but some true redneck country folks run the schools on a local level...

Brent

[Wag]

Sadly, the law prohibits carrying the guns on school property.

The right thing to do is petition for change in the laws. THEN, carry after the laws are changed.

Unfortunately, they are going to have to pay a price for their violation.

--Wag--

[mikejonestkd]

But if they were to search the parking lot of vehicles during general gun, they would have to expel a large portion of the already small student body and fire the majority of faculty and staff...

Just because a bunch of people ( even staff ) do it, and have gotten away with it in the past, does not make it legal.

No guns means no guns.

[hogdogs]

Just because it is a ZERO TOLERANCE LAW don't make it any less silly...

There is no GOOD reason that guns IN PRIVATE PROPERTY shouldn't be allowed ON SCHOOL PROPERTY...

It is when they are brought out and brought to bear in a hostile manner that something should be done about it!

At the same school I mentioned, The faculty and staff are blatantly aware that many boys and girls carry knives... These are farm kids after all...

The AG teacher knows which student's carry the SHARPER knives and will ask one of them when he wants a real sharp knife.

It isn't unusual for a high schooler to tote a leatherman right on his belt...

Brent

[scottl]

If the can suspend a grade school kid for little toy soldiers and toy guns glued to a hat then why not these guys.

[freqlord]

Since I was going to school back in the mid 90s and up to 2007, there were never any guns allowed on school. Regardless of what season it is, the rules haven't changed for years, and are not likely to change. Suck it up! How hard would it have been for the boys to go home after school and grab the guns? It all boils down to common sense. Society lacks it.

[Brian Pfleuger]

They certainly shouldn't have done it, but it's a stupid law.

Stupid.

The law was clearly not intended to be enforced for that reason.

There should have been exclusions and exceptions.

But, there aren't. So they shouldn't have brought the guns.

The whole thing is stupid.

[YARDDOG(1)]

40 Years ago We use to take a week off from school I'm not going to argue either way ; )
Y/D

[KLRANGL]

They only got suspended? I'd be jumping up and down ecstatically with that verdict.

Still a stupid law though...

[precision_shooter]

Sounds to me like they will have extra time to hunt....

[hogdogs]

Sounds to me like they will have extra time to hunt...

I always "generated" a personal "hogdogs" vacation for huntin'... Some one was gettin' a magnum spit wad to the head or somethin'... But I was gettin' my time off...

Brent

[Double Naught Spy]

They certainly shouldn't have done it, but it's a stupid law.

Stupid.

It may be a stupid law. Personally, I am quite alright with the notion that minors should not be taking guns to school where they are then in the charge of somebody else. I know I would not want to have to be responsible for kids I don't personally know really well having firearms. It puts the school in a tricky legal position if there is a problem. Why, because if there is a problem and somebody gets hurt, the family of the hurt student isn't going to sue the other child for the transgression. They are going to sue the school district.

Fortunately in the case of Columbine, part of the reason that the suits against the school were thrown out stemmed from the school having rules in place forbidding guns on campus. In other words, the school didn't allow the event to happen by allowing kids to bring guns to school. The judge apparently and rightfully understood this.

However, in many school shootings, families of the victims sue the school and for all sorts of stupid reasons. The success of such suits depends, in part on which rules and laws are in place and whether or not the school is in compliance with them. Heck, the school was named in a lawsuit when Lawrence Kind was shot twice (later died) by another student who shot King for being gay. The claim? The school should not have let King wear girls' clothing and makeup that result in drawing negative attention to King and resulted in his death. Fortunately, there was law in place protecting the school. They could not force King to wear the gender specific clothing because of hate crime law that prevented such gender discrimination.

People want to sue. It is sad, but seems to be true. You can go back and look at school shootings in the last 20 years or so and see that suits were brought against the schools, districts, and/or boards in all (that I have read over thus far) elementary, middle, and high school shootings where a student was the shooter - certainly in some college shootings as well. Of course the shooter or his/her family (if a minor) should be responsible, you would think, and have to pay, but they often don't have the deep pockets of a school district that is tied to a city or county and hence has the potential for a very large settlement.

Think about it. When was the last time somebody was killed in a school shooting that the parents or family of the victims just considered the whole event an unfortunately tragedy and didn't try to exact some sort of compensation out of the school?

[hogdogs]

DNS, you have to realize that these guns were in trucks and cars... In and of them self a LETHAL weapon... Ban students from bringing their trucks and cars to school... What about them EQUALLY LETHAL tire irons?

Brent

[orangello]

"Just because it is a ZERO TOLERANCE LAW don't make it any less silly..."

In my opinion, the fact that it is a "zero tolerance" law makes it MORE silly. Zero tolerance laws/rules exist simply to shield bureaucrats and their cronies from criticism they would surely attract for misapplying well-intentioned rules were the administrators forced to act out of their own discretion. There are exceptions to most every rule. I remember a stir about some idiot school administrator suspending a elementary student for letting a friend and fellow asthmatic use her rescue inhaler; way to go zeros.

[Madcap_Magician]

Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy

Well imagine that! When would you expect kids to bring guns to school. Hunting season would be a really good guess. I can't tell if she is upset because she thinks the school is being unfair or because her kid made such a blatantly stupid decision.

I think this is ridiculous... and correct.

The school undoubtedly ran the searches right at the start of the hunting season because they could quite rightly count on finding guns in vehicles. That was a rational move... if, and here is where it becomes ridiculous, the goal was to catch forgetful high school hunters and slap them with zero-tolerance punishments for being absentminded or running late.

Last I checked, the GOAL of such policies was to prevent violence at schools. I'm sure most of us think that the policies are ridiculous and do little good, but it's worse.

Because now we're enforcing the policy not to achieve its goal, but for the policy's own sake, and I don't think the school should have any business playing gotcha with students who mean no harm.

[bob.a]

Nothing more tiresome than Fools with Rules.

There are so many lines drawn by political idiots that it's a miracle you can walk down the street without tripping over one.

And every year a new crop of these folks gets to write a thousand pages of new rules. Hard to understand how it was ever possible to get things done before we had all these rules.

Things must be better now. Certainly we're all safer and more prosperous.

Thanks for saving us from ourselves, bold Legislators. Feel free to take a bit more money to keep an eye on us, see that we toe the line.

[Drummer101]

At a school by me a student was suspended for having a box cutter on his car seat that he used at work after school.

This is high school and we always have the school sheriff walk down the cars or parking lot duty (stop people from escaping??)...

[markj]

Glad we dont live there in crazy land. My kid took his soldiers to school as a presentation, and on his valentine box labled a labor of love, takes his gi guys every day, takes tanks, toy guns etc. Not one feather is ruffled we are farm people and have a thing most dont. Tis common sense... locked in a trunk is Ok here in some of our communities. Now go into the city and you will find the same senseless scare things. People dont want em cause they is scared of em, teach these folks, take em to a range and see their eyes lite up after that first shot. Seen it myself.

Now about his civil war and ww1 and ww2 books he takes

[Double Naught Spy]

DNS, you have to realize that these guns were in trucks and cars... In and of them self a LETHAL weapon... Ban students from bringing their trucks and cars to school... What about them EQUALLY LETHAL tire irons?

Brent

I read the article just like you. The kids brought firearms onto school campus which was against the rules that they knew and that were posted. They got caught despite their feeble attempts of hiding the evidence of their transgressions. Momma didn't like it and whined to the newspaper.

I don't follow your logic that adding more stupid laws is how we make this right. But if you want to play the outlandish/extreme rules game, then I suppose you would like the students, minors at that, to be allowed to carry guns from class to class. Heck, why not make it mandatory that they carry loaded guns and maintain muzzle discipline, or is mandating a rule we think is important also stupid because it demands compliance from folks that may not agree with it? So you see, we can play the outlandish game, but is really doesn't address the issue at hand - students who broke the rules that were in place and known to them. Momma whined.

Maybe momma should have been homeschooling her boys if she didn't like the rules at school?

For those who are interested and maybe those who didn't think that the kids were given proper notice, the student handbook is posted online.
http://byron.schoolfusion.us/modules...20Handbook.pdf

The rules are stated quite clearly.

If momma and the other parents don't like the rules, they should have already been working to change them. That hasn't happened. Momma hasn't petitioned the school board for a rules change.

Why do these people always cry foul after getting caught, but so often were too lazy to try to change things beforehand? Funny how that works.

[teeroux]

Well thankfully here a student would at least have a legal leg to stand on, and a civil suit being filed against the school board for reprimand of a lawful activity would have them wistling a different tune.
14:

§95.2. Carrying a firearm, or dangerous weapon, by a student or nonstudent on school property, at school-sponsored functions or firearm-free zone

A. Carrying a firearm, or dangerous weapon as defined in R.S. 14:2, by a student or nonstudent on school property, at a school sponsored function, or in a firearm-free zone is unlawful and shall be defined as possession of any firearm or dangerous weapon, on one's person, at any time while on a school campus, on school transportation, or at any school sponsored function in a specific designated area including but not limited to athletic competitions, dances, parties, or any extracurricular activities, or within one thousand feet of any school campus.

C. The provisions of this Section shall not apply to:

(5) Any constitutionally protected activity which cannot be regulated by the state, such as a firearm contained entirely within a motor vehicle.
http://www.legis.state.la.us/lss/lss.asp?doc=78741

[deathrider]

as mentioned above I guess in redneck country people do what they want?

I carried from second grade through 12th & 8 years of college, but I really didnt carry alot in grade school, but still did some, & I bought several guns in school, we traded & sold guns & knives for extra cash. I saw literally hundreds of guns in school, both boys & girls.

guns were "not allowed" but it was done, I remember in typing class a guy had hurt his hand & wasn't able to type, so he was cleaning a pistol in class, teaches says to put that away. she was afraid with him messing with it it might go off. or to see a teacher or janitor walking down hall with any kind of gun to trade or sell to another teacher or student. students kept rifles on the rack in their trucks to show off their toys. sometimes a parent or the students ride would drop off student with a long gun or student would take bus with rifle or shotgun, & student would take gun to principals office to leave until school was out & walk home to hunt or have a different ride to where was planning to hunt or to go home.

besides fist fights only 1 incident that I am aware of happened in high school, a student pulled a switchblade on a teacher for pulling him up trying to make him square dance, & he was strung out on drugs.

in college I had a teacher fuss at me, I had my gun in my coat pocket instead of on me, & when he went by my desk he hit his knee hard & asked what it was & I told him & he said just "keep it out of his way, & to put it in my pants pocket & that his knee hurt" & alot of us carried in college, & I graduated twice, & was in 2 different colleges & guns were everywhere in both.

what years? from 1980 in high school to 1993 in college plus alot of my grade school years.

Randy

[Wag]

Sounds like Nirvana to me, Randy.

--Wag--