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Old April 15, 2002, 11:09 AM   #1
cpileri
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*&* M-3000 riot shotgun

anyone ever heard of these? any good? I cant even find a picture!
Any help appreciated.
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Old April 15, 2002, 12:24 PM   #2
C.R.Sam
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Semi orphan. Smith bought em from Howa till bout 84. Mossberg bought the bits n pieces from Smith and also continued to import em from Howa for a while.

Sam
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Old April 15, 2002, 01:51 PM   #3
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Not very well regarded from what I recall.
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Old April 15, 2002, 03:42 PM   #4
Dave McC
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MD DOC found they didn't hold up under duty conditions.

Some folks love them and claim they're the best shotgun in the world. IMO, they don't get out much...
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Old April 15, 2002, 03:48 PM   #5
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Been around gun sall my lice, and have YET to see a *&* brand...

I thought Amith & Wesson made that gun...

what is this "*&*" you are talking of?
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Old April 16, 2002, 02:40 PM   #6
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S&W model 3000 Police Pump Shotgun

Back in the mid-eighties I had two Parkerized S&W model 3000 riot guns, and they were almost an exact copy of the Remington 870.
I fired around 300 rounds through each of them, and DID NOT encounter ANY problems with them; and I heard from others that they had a solid reputation.
You correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that they were the first to come out with-- if you had a round come out of the magazine tube while the chamber is loaded, it would jam up under the feed tray(big Boo-Boo for other brands). With the S&W 3000 you could slam the butt on the ground while holding down the slide release button, AND racking the slide, and that would automatically clear out the jam.
It was also around that time that I saw Remington 870's showing up with a slot cut into the feed tray so that you could put a blade from a pocket knife in the slot and safely push the round back out towards the magazine tube, thus clearing the jam.
I haven't had to try it on my Remington 870, but I understand that just about all modern brands can clear this type of jam by slamming it to the ground with the slide release button compressed, AND while racking the action.
Some of the bad wrap you hear about S&W Riot shotguns might me talking about their old model 916/916Eastfield riot gun which DID INDEED have a very poor performance record.
Hope this helps--StevieB.
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Old April 16, 2002, 04:56 PM   #7
Dave McC
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StevieB, the 3000 was advertised as a replacement for the 870 because of its ability to overcome a shell back condtion.It was a blatant imitation of the 870. But...

The drill you describe is the clearance drill for the 870.I first learned of this at an instructor's school in 1981, At that point I had been using 870s for over 20 years and didn't know they could have a shell back condition.For those that missed the several times I've mentioned this here, check the Archives.Be advised it's for emergencies. Pieces of stock get knocked off sometimes. For un-crises, make the weapon safe and dismantle the magazine to remove the errant shell through the front of the mag tube.

The 3000 was used for less than three years, when the remainder of those not returned to S&W were surplussed. They didn't hold up to being ignored, abused, neglected and misused like the 870 did. Civilians have little idea of how duty weapons are treated,by administrative and personnel lackadaisicality and ignorance.

I've an idea that if kept clean and lubed, used by those who were tender in their care, the 3000 would have made a better showing.

And, contrary to Urban Myth, the Flextab slot in the carrier was not to allow access to a stuck shell, but to FLEX enough to allow an errant shell to function.It worked, tho at this point the only glitches I've had with ANY 870 were deliberately induced.I believe my lifetime total may be around 50K rounds through divers 870s....
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Old April 16, 2002, 06:58 PM   #8
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The S&W M3000 was a psuedo-Remington M870 'clone'....but BETTER! It and the M1000(autoloader) were made by HOWA of Japan, and also imported by Mossberg.

The POS pump gun made by S&W was the M916. It was GARBAGE!

HOWEVER...like I said, the M3000 could be considered an IMPROVED Remington M870.
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Old April 17, 2002, 03:39 AM   #9
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Thanks for all the info...

I still can't find a picture anywhere!
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Old April 17, 2002, 04:18 AM   #10
Dave McC
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1201, kindly explain how a shotgun that was practically destroyed in a few years of light use is superior to the 870. Thank you...
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Old April 17, 2002, 11:06 AM   #11
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Old April 17, 2002, 04:43 PM   #12
Mike Irwin
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I've got nearly 2,500 rounds of assorted 12-gauge ammo through my Model 3000.

Sorry to disappoint all of you naysayers, but it's been 100% PERFECTLY reliable with all forms of ammunition, from light trap loads to really thumping S&B 00 buck, the loads with 15 pellets.

Failures to feed - 0

Failures to extract - 0

Failures to eject - 0

Failures of any other kind - 0

Broken parts - 0

I've beaten the crap out of this gun, and it's never let me down. Don't know about the problems that others have had with their guns, but it's not reflected in my experience.
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Old April 17, 2002, 06:03 PM   #13
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DavMcC...

Like ANY weapon...sometimes you get GOOD ones....sometimes you get BAD ones.

The M3000s that I have shot have ALL worked wonderfully. To be honest, I've had more BAD M870s(perhaps because they are more common?) than I have any other pump. Of course, a LOT of ANY weapon's problem depends a LOT on MAINTENANCE.

My M1000 was purchased NEW in 1979, has accounted for hundreds of doves and quail and STILL runs like new. Why? Because I take care of it. My M870, given to me by my grandfather(bought new in 1965), is still running strong. Again, MAINTENANCE.

There is NOTHING wrong with the S&W M3000. It's the M916 that you need to avoid.
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Old April 17, 2002, 08:39 PM   #14
Dave McC
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(Sigh)....

Now all the 3000 fans have come out of the closet
and proclaim it is an excellent shotgun. Good, I'm happy for you.

All I know is that in a Correctional setting they were JUNK. And we're talking about 30 of them, not a handful.

I'va hunch that you 3000 boosters keep them clean and lubed. Md DOC didn't, and that's where the troubles started.Grunge and rust are abrasive, and things shot loose PDQ and had malfs up the wazoo.

Good shotguns get abused and quit. Great ones get abused and continue to work for a long, long time.

FWIW, the Winchester 1200 didn't do that much better.The old 97s and 12s held up wonderfully.

If you've 3000s and they still work, Huzzah! Glad to hear it.

Sorry, I've no experience with the 916. And I'm happy to say so.

The biggest piece of offal I ever met in a pump configuration was a Flite King, runner up the Noble. But, I'm basing that on one specimen each.
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Old April 17, 2002, 10:01 PM   #15
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2,500 rounds. Hmmm, bout ten weekends of trap n skeet. Doesn't seem like enough to break anything.

Sam.
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Old April 17, 2002, 10:39 PM   #16
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Jeez, Dave, take a look at your message, and tell me whether the root of the problem is with the shotgun in question, or the users.

Given what you're indicating, the root of the problem lays with MDDOC. There's where your real sigh should be directed.

Just about any firearm with malfunction if it is not cared for and/or abused, including the world's best shotguns.

30 of them IS a handgun. A very small handful, as there were about 12,000 of the guns sold to police forces around the world.

The Remington 870 has met with similar problems in its police career.

Sam,

My 3000 is a police issue gun with a cylinder bore. Not really a trap/skeet gun.
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Old April 18, 2002, 04:45 AM   #17
Dave McC
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Mike, if 3 models of shotguns hold up to neglect and abuse, but the 3000 doesn't, wouldn't that make you think the 3000 isn't quite as durable?

I'm going to walk away from this, there's no purpose in further wrangling.

One thing tho, Mike. A police style shotgun with open choke and short bbl makes a fine quail gun and probably a fine skeet gun. Try it sometime.
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Old April 18, 2002, 11:46 AM   #18
Mike Irwin
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And I'm sure that I could find experiences that counter MDDOCs experience with the 3000, Dave, where the 3000s held up and other guns didn't so so well.

It may also tell us that the Model 12s and Model 97s were finally beaten to the point where they were reliable because lots of "fixes" had been made to them because of abuse/neglect in years prior. You probably don't know how well those particular guns performed when new -- they could have been fraught with problems as well. It certainly wouldn't be the first time that a new product showed serious teething problems, requiring multiple fixes, before becoming a very reliable platform.

I've used similar shotguns for standing corn pheasants. Nice handling among the stalks.
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Old April 18, 2002, 05:54 PM   #19
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Most shotgun classes have at least one 3000 in it. I've owned a few. All guns break.

The S&W 3000 is now the official shotguns of the Battle Ground, Indiana Police Department if that's any kind of endorsement (I sold them to the chief).

I like the 870, but the manip drills are all the same. Buy different guns, or borrow or rent from buddies until you find one you like. Buy 4 of that weapon. Stick with it.
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Old April 22, 2002, 03:39 AM   #20
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Meowhead and everyone else...

Thansk again. Question:
What type(s) of aftermarket stocks/grips will work in the 3000? Of course I see alot of m500/rem870/win1200 stuff, but nothing that mentions compatibility with thisone.
I figure, a guy has a 20"bbl shotgun with wood stocks and now may be time for a pistol grip.
Any info?
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