New Trapdoor Carbine

Tidewater_Kid · December 1, 2013, 06:29 PM

I had this idea for a Trapdoor carbine. After seeing so many great pictures from Doc Hoy of his projects, I wanted to give it a try. I had the 1866 2nd barrel and breach so I set about finding the parts I needed. I got lucky on an eBay auction and got a whole box of stuff for cheap. I don't have anything but hand tools, but I think it turned out nice. It took many hours in inlet the stock for the 1866 action. It was originally a musket stock and was already cut down. Can't wait to shoot it. I picked up a 45-70 barrel and receiver and I might try this again, but that will have to wait until after Christmas.

I always liked this picture of Geronimo with a Trapdoor. So that was what I was going for. Still waiting on a couple of things like the saddle ring and lower band.

TK

Doc Hoy · December 2, 2013, 07:14 AM

You might try going to Al Frasca and getting a carbine barrel band and trigger guard.

He might trade you straight up for yours.

Some of the early trapdoor carbines were made without the cleaning rod storage locker in the butt. So a butt plate without the little access door is at least quasi accurate.

There are also carbines that were issued with a long wrist and with a short wrist in the stock. I like the looks of the short wrist but I like the feel of the long wrist.

Nice work on the carbine. Congrats on coming up with the parts and such without having to give up your first male born child.

Tidewater_Kid · December 2, 2013, 11:12 AM

Doc,

Thanks as always. I found the band last night. The tricky part is this is in 50-70 caliber and I needed a musket stock. I found this one on eBay already cut and it wasn't too bad. I realize that it's a collection of parts, I just wanted it to look like a 1870 carbine. Al sold an original 1870 carbine a couple of years ago for over $14K. Rifle pictures are still list on his site. Beautiful rifle. No one would ever be fooled into thinking it is anything other than a parts rifle. I was going to ask you to make me a sling bar, but I got that one in a box of parts. It's original and has a lot of ring wear in the corner. I think I somehow stretched the image as the wrist is not that long in person. I'll take some better pictures.

TK

Tidewater_Kid · December 24, 2013, 11:40 PM

Ok, let's try this again. I rebuilt the lock with the correct plate, I changed the band to a carbine type, reshaped the trigger guard and added the ring to the saddle bar. I lighten the patina on the barrel as these were left in the white. I going to take it to the range Thursday. Thanks for suggestions Doc.

TK

Doc Hoy · December 25, 2013, 05:38 AM

I just can't look at a photo of a trapdoor without I want another one.

I like what you did with it.

swopjan · December 25, 2013, 11:37 AM

Good job on that rifle! And a .50-70 to boot, that's awesome.

PetahW · December 25, 2013, 12:42 PM

.

Me likey !

.

Hawg · December 25, 2013, 04:20 PM

Looks good but why reshape the trigger guard?

Tidewater_Kid · December 25, 2013, 04:36 PM

Thanks for all the comments.

Hawg,
I reshaped the trigger guard because the carbines didn't have the sling loop attachment and I couldn't find a 50-70 carbine trigger guard. I had a spare regular trigger guard.

TK

Hawg · December 25, 2013, 08:33 PM

Actually a lot of them did. If a gun went in for repair they used what parts they had. If a carbine needed a guard it would most likely wind up with one and all the late model carbines above serial number 500,000 did have them.

Tidewater_Kid · December 25, 2013, 10:35 PM

Hawg,

My project carbine is modeled after a 1870 Carbine in 50-70 gov. They only made 341 of them. They were the precursor to the 1973 carbine that were so popular. Of reference photos I have been able to find of actual 1870 models, I have never seen one with the sling ring on it.

TK

Tidewater_Kid · December 26, 2013, 05:26 PM

Well I got to take it to the range today. I took both of my 2nd Allin rifles and I had a blast! Everything works fine. I just need to find a better rear sight as someone had a go on the notch on this one and it's so wide you could drive a truck through it.

Fun day...

TK

Doc Hoy · December 27, 2013, 07:28 AM

No day is wasted on which you burn some powder.

salvadore · December 27, 2013, 09:41 AM

Since you folks are all trapdoored up, I was wondering if could tell me about this carbine. I think it's a cut down rifle but have never researched it. I shoot it using a NEI mold @ .462 (slugged the bore) and pyrodex with a .46 card between. It used to shoot 2" @ 100yds now shoots 2" @ 50yds..Eyesight problem not shooter problem. It says U.S MODEL 1884 on the front of the trapdoor and
V
P A
and some kind of mark beneath and something that looks like a cross between an E and an I on the barrel forward of the receiver.

**4V50 Gary** · December 27, 2013, 10:22 AM

Stock carving was popular in the '50s-'60s. Some folks still do this. Hence your cougar.

Doc Hoy · December 27, 2013, 03:02 PM

The stock has a short wrist which was quasi-peculiar to carbines.

Can't see the butt plate, so can't tell if it had a cleaning rod/tool compartment

Can't see the sight to see if there is a "C" or and "R" on it.

Photo of the fore-end of the stock does not show whether the stock had a cleaning rod groove forward of the barrel band.

Difficult to tell but the trigger guard appears to have the contour of a rifle guard which was recontoured.

I tend to agree that the weapon started as a rifle.

It is still a beauty. (Dumb statement: There is no such thing as a bad looking trapdoor carbine)

salvadore · December 27, 2013, 06:51 PM

Lotsa case color but no cleaning compartment. Do not see any initials on the sight. No groove, don't know about the trigger guard. The barrel is primo and there is some CC on the trapdoor and a lot on the bottom of the trap door.

salvadore · December 27, 2013, 06:54 PM

oops, there is a C on the rear right hand of the sight.

Doc Hoy · December 27, 2013, 07:33 PM

A second look at the trigger guard leaves me with the feeling it might be a carbine guard.

December 2, 2013, 07:14 AM	#2
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	These carbines are just the prettiest things You might try going to Al Frasca and getting a carbine barrel band and trigger guard. He might trade you straight up for yours. Some of the early trapdoor carbines were made without the cleaning rod storage locker in the butt. So a butt plate without the little access door is at least quasi accurate. There are also carbines that were issued with a long wrist and with a short wrist in the stock. I like the looks of the short wrist but I like the feel of the long wrist. Nice work on the carbine. Congrats on coming up with the parts and such without having to give up your first male born child. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

December 2, 2013, 11:12 AM	#3
Tidewater_Kid Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 925	Doc, Thanks as always. I found the band last night. The tricky part is this is in 50-70 caliber and I needed a musket stock. I found this one on eBay already cut and it wasn't too bad. I realize that it's a collection of parts, I just wanted it to look like a 1870 carbine. Al sold an original 1870 carbine a couple of years ago for over $14K. Rifle pictures are still list on his site. Beautiful rifle. No one would ever be fooled into thinking it is anything other than a parts rifle. I was going to ask you to make me a sling bar, but I got that one in a box of parts. It's original and has a lot of ring wear in the corner. I think I somehow stretched the image as the wrist is not that long in person. I'll take some better pictures. TK Last edited by Tidewater_Kid; December 2, 2013 at 04:15 PM.

December 24, 2013, 11:40 PM	#4
Tidewater_Kid Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 925	Faux 1870 Carbine Part 2 Ok, let's try this again. I rebuilt the lock with the correct plate, I changed the band to a carbine type, reshaped the trigger guard and added the ring to the saddle bar. I lighten the patina on the barrel as these were left in the white. I going to take it to the range Thursday. Thanks for suggestions Doc. TK

December 25, 2013, 05:38 AM	#5
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	I love it, TK I just can't look at a photo of a trapdoor without I want another one. I like what you did with it. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

December 25, 2013, 11:37 AM	#6
swopjan Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 2011 Posts: 156	Good job on that rifle! And a .50-70 to boot, that's awesome. __________________ Need mags? AK, AR, 92FS and others... http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=538591

December 25, 2013, 12:42 PM	#7
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 4,678	. Me likey ! .

December 25, 2013, 04:20 PM	#8
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	Looks good but why reshape the trigger guard?

December 25, 2013, 04:36 PM	#9
Tidewater_Kid Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 925	Thanks for all the comments. Hawg, I reshaped the trigger guard because the carbines didn't have the sling loop attachment and I couldn't find a 50-70 carbine trigger guard. I had a spare regular trigger guard. TK

December 25, 2013, 08:33 PM	#10
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	Actually a lot of them did. If a gun went in for repair they used what parts they had. If a carbine needed a guard it would most likely wind up with one and all the late model carbines above serial number 500,000 did have them.

December 25, 2013, 10:35 PM	#11
Tidewater_Kid Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 925	Hawg, My project carbine is modeled after a 1870 Carbine in 50-70 gov. They only made 341 of them. They were the precursor to the 1973 carbine that were so popular. Of reference photos I have been able to find of actual 1870 models, I have never seen one with the sling ring on it. TK

December 26, 2013, 05:26 PM	#12
Tidewater_Kid Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 925	Well I got to take it to the range today. I took both of my 2nd Allin rifles and I had a blast! Everything works fine. I just need to find a better rear sight as someone had a go on the notch on this one and it's so wide you could drive a truck through it. Fun day... TK

December 27, 2013, 07:28 AM	#13
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Good TK No day is wasted on which you burn some powder. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

December 27, 2013, 09:41 AM	#14
salvadore Junior member Join Date: January 1, 2007 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,282	Since you folks are all trapdoored up, I was wondering if could tell me about this carbine. I think it's a cut down rifle but have never researched it. I shoot it using a NEI mold @ .462 (slugged the bore) and pyrodex with a .46 card between. It used to shoot 2" @ 100yds now shoots 2" @ 50yds..Eyesight problem not shooter problem. It says U.S MODEL 1884 on the front of the trapdoor and V P A and some kind of mark beneath and something that looks like a cross between an E and an I on the barrel forward of the receiver.

December 27, 2013, 10:22 AM	#15
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,841	Stock carving was popular in the '50s-'60s. Some folks still do this. Hence your cougar. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

December 27, 2013, 03:02 PM	#16
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Some comments The stock has a short wrist which was quasi-peculiar to carbines. Can't see the butt plate, so can't tell if it had a cleaning rod/tool compartment Can't see the sight to see if there is a "C" or and "R" on it. Photo of the fore-end of the stock does not show whether the stock had a cleaning rod groove forward of the barrel band. Difficult to tell but the trigger guard appears to have the contour of a rifle guard which was recontoured. I tend to agree that the weapon started as a rifle. It is still a beauty. (Dumb statement: There is no such thing as a bad looking trapdoor carbine) __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

December 27, 2013, 06:51 PM	#17
salvadore Junior member Join Date: January 1, 2007 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,282	Lotsa case color but no cleaning compartment. Do not see any initials on the sight. No groove, don't know about the trigger guard. The barrel is primo and there is some CC on the trapdoor and a lot on the bottom of the trap door.

December 27, 2013, 06:54 PM	#18
salvadore Junior member Join Date: January 1, 2007 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,282	oops, there is a C on the rear right hand of the sight.

December 27, 2013, 07:33 PM	#19
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	I need to retract one comment.... A second look at the trigger guard leaves me with the feeling it might be a carbine guard. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.