Quest for a smooth trigger

wvshooter · July 22, 2015, 09:23 PM

I have a number of semi autos. Some are striker fired. Some are DAO and some are DA/SA. My most recent purchase a Smith 5906 has a buttery smooth, no hitch of any kind and no hint of anything else other than butter sliding against butter DA trigger pull . I was blown away. I have two or three other guns that I would like to get that kind of trigger on.

Is it possible? I have a CZ75BD that would be a dream if it had that kind of trigger. Is there a mild abrasive that can be used to smooth up a trigger.

James K · July 22, 2015, 10:35 PM

If you bought the gun used, maybe someone worked over that trigger. But some of the Model 39/59's have excellent DA triggers from the factory. Some don't. A bit of luck of the draw (ok, pun intended!).

Jim

Gunplummer · July 22, 2015, 11:48 PM

Probably right. One of my relatives bought an Ultra- lite M77 Ruger new and the trigger was so light it was scarey. He bounced it around good (Unloaded) and it held, but personally I would not have liked it that light.

g.willikers · July 23, 2015, 10:08 AM

Unless you really know what you are doing, messing with trigger parts is not a good idea, especially with a semi-auto.
All those little surfaces on triggers, sears and hammers, that look so inviting to smooth, are there for a reason.
Every angle and nubby serves a purpose.
It's usually best to go have a lie down until the notion passes.

dyl · July 23, 2015, 11:27 AM

I understand where g.williker is coming from because when we start tinkering we *will inevitably face an instance where you went too far or approached incorrectly because our "can do" is greater than our understanding of operation at first.

I do think there are a few places aside from angles on sears and hammers that can be smoothed up conservatively. And there are also spring replacements however you have to use your judgement when it comes to altering forces required for operation.

Stamped trigger bars with uneven surfaces, firing pin blocks, pivoting surfaces or other metal-on-metal contact surfaces can be stoned/polished. But you need to look hard at the design and ask yourself "is *this* point of contact really responsible for the rubbing/grittiness?" - and ask if it's worth rubbing off the finish (if not stainless). I usually avoid sears, hammer angles, and externally visible surfaces, and leave that to use/dry firing. Squirting an abrasive compound and cycling the trigger action is not something I would do, as a real smith has a few decisions to make for a proper trigger job regarding a new angle and degree of engagement - which would produce more desirable results than wearing down the existing one.

However on your CZ75b, I would look to Cajun Gunworks at their DA aftermarket options, they seem to be able to do a lot. You could install the parts yourself or send it in.

Here's what I wish I knew when I first started tinkering.

A "smooth" trigger pull and "light" pull weight may have surprising effects on each other. Sometimes lighter doesn't always feel smoother.
Results are usually very subtle, you'd really have to know the trigger to tell. Many chase after a certain expectation and keep going on that part until ruin - rather than saying, "yes, no burrs, it's slick, it's the best I can do here". Avoid using a dremel if you can. Polishing/filing/stoning to the point where you change dimensions/introduce slop will have a detrimental effect. Shooting and cycling the trigger will accomplish much the same except for specific parts for a given design.
Alter the cheapest replaceable part first. Start with your least valuable firearm. The sideplate on a special revolver of mine reminds me of that every time I see it.

JWT · July 23, 2015, 11:55 AM

Find a well recommended gunsmith with a good reputation for doing trigger jobs. Well worth the cost to have a good and safe job.

Gunplummer · July 23, 2015, 08:39 PM

I quit buying parts off ebay because of too much smoothing.

Scorch · July 24, 2015, 01:01 AM

CZ 75 triggers are no place for an amateur to be messing around. Lots of small stamped pieces and tiny springs. Give to a good smith.

oldandslow · July 24, 2015, 06:03 AM

wvs,

I've done several dozen trigger/action jobs on pistols including the SW 3rd generation pistols like your 5906 and three CZ's (two 75 compacts and one Rami). I only got into doing my own work because I am several thousand miles from the nearest gunsmith capable of doing quality work. To do it right you need to do a lot of reading, buy a lot of tools and fixtures and then go slow. The CZ's have a sear assembly that is a pain in the neck to reassemble with the BD decocker model being even tougher. As others have suggested it is probably best to send your pistol to someone who has the tools and knowledge to do the job right. Good luck.

best wishes- oldandslow

Gunplummer · July 24, 2015, 08:58 AM

Best to listen to Scorch and the others. I just remembered an incident at a gun club range near Hellertown, Pa. about 30 years ago. An off duty cop shot himself while alone at the range. Apparently he laid the auto pistol on the table and started to walk down to the targets and the gun went off multiple times. One round hit and killed him. It was determined he had monkeyed with the sear and trigger to "Lighten it up". I know, lot of safety rules broken there, but that is not the point.

CowTowner · July 24, 2015, 04:06 PM

I have torn down several CZ and clone triggers and the associated sear packs. They are no fun at all.
Follow all the good advice. Send it out.
Here's another suggestion for quality work:
http://czcustom.com/CZ-Custom-Work.aspx

wvshooter · July 24, 2015, 09:55 PM

Thanks for the replies. Guess a mild abrasive is a bad idea.

CowTowner · July 27, 2015, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Guess a mild abrasive is a bad idea.

Yes it is. Getting an abrasive in the sear pack will mess more stuff up than it helps. You really don't want the pins and springs abraded.

Dragline45 · July 27, 2015, 02:39 PM

I agree with what the others said. The only gun I have ever attempted a trigger job on was a S&W 640 and the first trigger I had in my AR (found out that was a big mistake). The results for the 640 were great and ended up working out fine, though it's alot harder to muck up a DAO trigger than a DA trigger. The AR trigger not so much, while the trigger smoothed out a good deal, it became inconsistent, and I soon found out you should never stone and polish an AR trigger as they are only surface hardened and not hardened all the way through. With enough rounds the soft unhardened metal can cause the gun to become unsafe, so I ended up buying an ALG ACT trigger to replace it and never looked back.

While the 640 trigger job ended up working out fine, after reading horror stories of peoples attempts at home trigger jobs I decided never to test my luck again and just bring it to a qualified gunsmith for now on.

T. O'Heir · July 27, 2015, 02:48 PM

"...mild abrasive that..." Emery cloth. AKA wet/dry sand paper. You'll find you'll probable need to change springs too though.
And every action type is done differently.

July 22, 2015, 09:23 PM	#1
wvshooter Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2007 Location: Charleston, WV Posts: 302	Quest for a smooth trigger I have a number of semi autos. Some are striker fired. Some are DAO and some are DA/SA. My most recent purchase a Smith 5906 has a buttery smooth, no hitch of any kind and no hint of anything else other than butter sliding against butter DA trigger pull . I was blown away. I have two or three other guns that I would like to get that kind of trigger on. Is it possible? I have a CZ75BD that would be a dream if it had that kind of trigger. Is there a mild abrasive that can be used to smooth up a trigger.

July 23, 2015, 10:08 AM	#4
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Unless you really know what you are doing, messing with trigger parts is not a good idea, especially with a semi-auto. All those little surfaces on triggers, sears and hammers, that look so inviting to smooth, are there for a reason. Every angle and nubby serves a purpose. It's usually best to go have a lie down until the notion passes. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.” Last edited by g.willikers; July 23, 2015 at 10:14 AM.

July 24, 2015, 01:01 AM	#8
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	CZ 75 triggers are no place for an amateur to be messing around. Lots of small stamped pieces and tiny springs. Give to a good smith. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

July 24, 2015, 04:06 PM	#11
CowTowner Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2007 Location: Cowtown of course! Posts: 1,747	I have torn down several CZ and clone triggers and the associated sear packs. They are no fun at all. Follow all the good advice. Send it out. Here's another suggestion for quality work: http://czcustom.com/CZ-Custom-Work.aspx __________________ NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, Home Firearms Safety, Pistol and Rifle Instructor *“Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life......”* President John F. Kennedy

July 27, 2015, 02:48 PM	#15
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...mild abrasive that..." Emery cloth. AKA wet/dry sand paper. You'll find you'll probable need to change springs too though. And every action type is done differently. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

July 22, 2015, 10:35 PM	#2
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	If you bought the gun used, maybe someone worked over that trigger. But some of the Model 39/59's have excellent DA triggers from the factory. Some don't. A bit of luck of the draw (ok, pun intended!). Jim

July 22, 2015, 11:48 PM	#3
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	Probably right. One of my relatives bought an Ultra- lite M77 Ruger new and the trigger was so light it was scarey. He bounced it around good (Unloaded) and it held, but personally I would not have liked it that light.

July 23, 2015, 11:27 AM	#5
dyl Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,310	I understand where g.williker is coming from because when we start tinkering we will inevitably face an instance where you went too far or approached incorrectly because our "can do" is greater than our understanding of operation at first. I do think there are a few places aside from angles on sears and hammers that can be smoothed up conservatively. And there are also spring replacements however you have to use your judgement when it comes to altering forces required for operation. Stamped trigger bars with uneven surfaces, firing pin blocks, pivoting surfaces or other metal-on-metal contact surfaces can be stoned/polished. But you need to look hard at the design and ask yourself "is this* point of contact really responsible for the rubbing/grittiness?" - and ask if it's worth rubbing off the finish (if not stainless). I usually avoid sears, hammer angles, and externally visible surfaces, and leave that to use/dry firing. Squirting an abrasive compound and cycling the trigger action is not something I would do, as a real smith has a few decisions to make for a proper trigger job regarding a new angle and degree of engagement - which would produce more desirable results than wearing down the existing one. However on your CZ75b, I would look to Cajun Gunworks at their DA aftermarket options, they seem to be able to do a lot. You could install the parts yourself or send it in. Here's what I wish I knew when I first started tinkering. A "smooth" trigger pull and "light" pull weight may have surprising effects on each other. Sometimes lighter doesn't always feel smoother. Results are usually very subtle, you'd really have to know the trigger to tell. Many chase after a certain expectation and keep going on that part until ruin - rather than saying, "yes, no burrs, it's slick, it's the best I can do here". Avoid using a dremel if you can. Polishing/filing/stoning to the point where you change dimensions/introduce slop will have a detrimental effect. Shooting and cycling the trigger will accomplish much the same except for specific parts for a given design. Alter the cheapest replaceable part first. Start with your least valuable firearm. The sideplate on a special revolver of mine reminds me of that every time I see it.

July 23, 2015, 11:55 AM	#6
JWT Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2007 Location: Southern Arizona Posts: 3,888	Find a well recommended gunsmith with a good reputation for doing trigger jobs. Well worth the cost to have a good and safe job.

July 23, 2015, 08:39 PM	#7
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	I quit buying parts off ebay because of too much smoothing.

July 24, 2015, 06:03 AM	#9
oldandslow Senior Member Join Date: October 2, 2007 Posts: 641	wvs, I've done several dozen trigger/action jobs on pistols including the SW 3rd generation pistols like your 5906 and three CZ's (two 75 compacts and one Rami). I only got into doing my own work because I am several thousand miles from the nearest gunsmith capable of doing quality work. To do it right you need to do a lot of reading, buy a lot of tools and fixtures and then go slow. The CZ's have a sear assembly that is a pain in the neck to reassemble with the BD decocker model being even tougher. As others have suggested it is probably best to send your pistol to someone who has the tools and knowledge to do the job right. Good luck. best wishes- oldandslow

July 24, 2015, 08:58 AM	#10
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	Best to listen to Scorch and the others. I just remembered an incident at a gun club range near Hellertown, Pa. about 30 years ago. An off duty cop shot himself while alone at the range. Apparently he laid the auto pistol on the table and started to walk down to the targets and the gun went off multiple times. One round hit and killed him. It was determined he had monkeyed with the sear and trigger to "Lighten it up". I know, lot of safety rules broken there, but that is not the point.

July 24, 2015, 09:55 PM	#12
wvshooter Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2007 Location: Charleston, WV Posts: 302	Thanks for the replies. Guess a mild abrasive is a bad idea.

July 27, 2015, 02:39 PM	#14
Dragline45 Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2010 Posts: 3,513	I agree with what the others said. The only gun I have ever attempted a trigger job on was a S&W 640 and the first trigger I had in my AR (found out that was a big mistake). The results for the 640 were great and ended up working out fine, though it's alot harder to muck up a DAO trigger than a DA trigger. The AR trigger not so much, while the trigger smoothed out a good deal, it became inconsistent, and I soon found out you should never stone and polish an AR trigger as they are only surface hardened and not hardened all the way through. With enough rounds the soft unhardened metal can cause the gun to become unsafe, so I ended up buying an ALG ACT trigger to replace it and never looked back. While the 640 trigger job ended up working out fine, after reading horror stories of peoples attempts at home trigger jobs I decided never to test my luck again and just bring it to a qualified gunsmith for now on.