22 Hornet Reloading Question

[CaseyH]

Hi all,

I've got a question about reloading the 22 hornet. I've noticed that there are bullets marked "22 Hornet" at .224 and then there are standard bullets just makred ".224". I had some of these standard bullets and was wondering if they can be loaded into the 22 hornet cartridge. I made a test load to see how it fit, and the standard bullet is almost too long. To get it down to the right overall length, I had to seat it so far that the mouth of the cartridge goes past the taper of the bullet, so there is a tiny bit of space around the walls of the mouth of the cartridge and the bullet. But, the fit is tight before the bullet tapers. Well this looks fishy, would it be safe to shoot a load like this? Are the bullet designated Hornet the only option?

I ask because I have an abundance of standard .224 bullets and Hornet empties, and I'd like to put them both to good use, safely.

Thanks!

Casey

[bobn]

early hornets had a tighter bore size. moat of the new bullets marked hornet refers to a thinner jacket for reduce velocites a hornet would use versus a 223 or 22 250 etc. bob

[CaseyH]

Thanks for the info, Bob. Do you think it's safe to use the non hornet .224 40 gr. bullets, even though they require such a deep seat?

Casey

[Scorch]

.224" bullets marked as appropriate for the 22 Hornet generally have a shorter ogive and stabilize better in the slower twist/lower velocity you find with the Hornet because the overall length of the bullet is shorter for a given bullet weight.

The early Winchesters 22 Hornets had .223" bores, and very few of those get shot any more.

[CaseyH]

Hey Scorch, Thanks for the good info. No use reloading a round that won't be accurate. I'll wait until I can get my hands on some Hornet specific bullets and a free weekend and go from there. Cheers,

Casey

[MADISON]

22 hornets prior to WW-II had a barrel diamerter of 223.
After the war they were barreled at 224 diameter.

[swampy308]

You probley could still use them,Ive got a brotherinlaw who buys 55gr Winchester bullets,and uses them in his Hornet to hunt squirrles. Maybe thier accurate at a shorter range, just a thought.

[FrankenMauser]

Hey Scorch, Thanks for the good info. No use reloading a round that won't be accurate. I'll wait until I can get my hands on some Hornet specific bullets and a free weekend and go from there.

Scorch is correct. .224" bullets marked ".218 Bee" or ".22 Hornet" refer to bullet shape or ogive. These cartridges don't have a lot of wiggle room for seating due to overall lengths and throat dimensions. These bullets do tend to incorporate thinner jackets in some designs... but not all.

As for the inaccurate ammo.... If you have the bullets; load them. You'd be surprised what the Hornet can do.

What is your rifle? Rate of twist for the barrel?

[CaseyH]

Hey Swampy, does your brother in law have a problem with the hornets tearing up the squirrels? I always figured the hornet to be just a tad bit too powerful for squirrel hunting. Is he using a light load?

FrankenMauser, Thanks for the reply. I'm not familiar with the .218 bee, but it looks like a fun round to play with.

I ordered some Hornet bullets this morning...looking forward to getting them in. As you said, the ogive is more appropriate than the standard .224 bullets I already have.

I am hesitant to fire any rounds with the standard .224 bullets I have. They are seated very deep and I don't want to take any chances with overly high pressures. I am still pretty new at reloading and I don't know enough yet to experiment so much. Not without a pro by my side, anyway. The bullets won't be wasted, though. I've got a 22-250 that should eat them quite hungrily

The Hornet is a Ruger 77/22 Hornet with (I'm pretty sure) a 1x16" twist. My dad bought it several years ago when we were having trouble with beavers on our property. It works a lot better for that purpose than the 22LR stingers we were using. Since then we've pretty much taken care of the beavers, so I've been playing around with the hornet for other purposes. And now I'm curious about it's performance as a squirrel gun. The season opens in just a couple months!

[Magnum Wheel Man]

I reload alotof 22 Hornet, in many different guns, & configurations... often times when reloading for accuracy, you cheat the bullet length to closer to the rifling ( I load each box of 22 Hornet ammo for a specific gun, then slowly work out the bullet length extending the recommnded OAL ) often accuracy can be improved greatly... so with the new denser powders & a relaxed COL that has not been an issue...

but the 1 in 12 through 1 in 16" twists really like a short bullet there are several new "light weight" bullets out there ( the A Max is a good example ) of light weight, more aerodynamic bullets, that will really get screaming in the Hornet... ( not sure, but I would just about bet your Ruger wears a 1 in 12" or 1 in 14" twist ) but with some of the denser new powders, a heavier or longer bullet often fits fine, if there was a twist rate that would stabilize the bullets...

I did some custom work with a 22 Hornet revolver, & used a 1 in 9" twist & am now loading "heavier" bullets but I'm liking the spire point 45 grainers best so far... now I'm looking to do a fast twist 22 Hornet rifle ( probably a single shot ) to have a rifle that can shoot the same ammo...

[Scorch]

The Hornet is a Ruger 77/22 Hornet with (I'm pretty sure) a 1x16" twist.

Ruger 77/22 Hornet rifles have a 1:14" twist, so you should be good to go with spire point or spitzer bullet weights up to about 40 gr.

[Crankylove]

I'm curious about it's performance as a squirrel gun

My Ruger 77/22 Hornet is devastating to squirells. My pet load is 10.5 grains of W296 and a 40 grain Speer soft point, and it turns squirells into flying red chunks, last time out it blew the complete spine out of one squirell while its head/lungs flew about 25 feet the other direction. It also works very well on rabbits and similar sized game, and should do pretty good on those pesky prarie dogs when I go antelope hunting later this year.

I have also had some troubles trying to load non "Hornet" .223 bullets, but found that most .223 bullets are so lightly constructed, that you really don't need a fancy HP with a cool name. The 40 grain soft points I mostly shoot, are made for the Hornet, and are as accurate, perform the same, and are cheaper by far than the "premium" bullets. I have some Barnes 36 grain Varmit Grenades and some 40 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips loaded right now that have to be seated past the ogive in order to function in my magazine. I looks a little wrong to seat them that far in, but I have had no issues yet (although, once I shoot them up, I won't be buying anymore).

[swampy308]

No they just put pretty little holes throug thier heads

[CaseyH]

I checked the specifications and you guys are right, the twist rate of the 77/22 Hornet is 1 x 14", not 1 x 16" as I thought.

there are several new "light weight" bullets out there ( the A Max is a good example ) of light weight, more aerodynamic bullets, that will really get screaming in the Horne

I'm not familiar with the A Max, but I've got some Barnes Varmint Grenade 30 gr HP's on order. I'm looking forward to playing around with them.

with some of the denser new powders, a heavier or longer bullet often fits fine, if there was a twist rate that would stabilize the bullets...

What are some of the denser powders you mention? I'm still a newb and don't know much about powder yet. I'm using H110, btw, simply because it's all I've got that will work in the hornet at the moment, and $$ for hobbies is limited.

The extra little bit of length wasn't really what was making me hesitant to use the .224 ammo I had. It was the excessive depth of the seat, and the fact that the ogive began past (on the inside of the casing) the mouth. So, the tip of the mouth was actually smaller in diameter because it wrapped around the bullet's taper. This might be acceptable, but me being new and unawares of all the details, I wasn't sure. That's actually what I set out to find. Is this acceptable? I can maybe draw a picture of what I'm talking about if needed. It's hard to get in to words.

Crankylove, how far past the ogive do you have to seat the bullets you mentioned?

To be clear, I'm using only .224 bullets in a .224 rifle. Neither is .223.

it turns squirells into flying red chunks

It sounds like your loads may not be as gentle as I was hoping! I'm trying to preserve as much of the little buggars as possible so I'll have something to cook in the crock pot.

I'll have to try some heavier bullets, as swampy suggested, for my squirrels. I'd love to get a look at your brother in law's squirrel load specs, swampy.

Unfortunately, there are no prairie dogs in Louisiana. I've always wanted to do some of that long range prairie dog hunting.

Lots of great info here, thanks all.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

Lil Gun is very promising...

I"m also reloading for a 6" revolver, so some of pistol powders have found their way into my cases... some published powders, some that have never been published as being used in the Hornet...

there is good published load data for the Lil Gun, & I highly recommend it... ( seems slightly better in several applications than H-110... especially where heavier bullets are concerned )

I have about 200 36 grain Varmint Grenades loaded with various charges right now, & so far I'm liking them enough I just bought another 250...

[McClintock]

Hmmmm, if you're using Varmint Grenades and still expect to have anything left over for the crock pot, you may be in for a disappointment. I've used the 36 gr. Varmint Grenades (out of a .223 Remington) on prairie dogs/ground squirrels, and they don't leave much in they way of usable meat on something the size of a squirrel, I've had a couple times where I only found the lower half of the squirrel after hitting one center mass, the top half was just... gone. They are pretty destructive, which I believe is their intent.

For a squirrel gun, if you're looking for something less destructive, I'd be more inclined to use the good ol' .22LR, but that's just me.

Oh, btw, long-range poodle-shooting is a hoot, just in case you're wondering! If you ever get the chance to do any, definitely give it a try!

Cheers!
McClintock

[Magnum Wheel Man]

I've also been expiementing with the 45 grain Barnes banded solids... if your rifle will stabilize them, one tiny hole in, one tiny hole out... they work great for meat or fur hunting... also Sierra spitzer soft points should do well as a meat round, again if your rifle will stabilize the 45 grain spitzer length bullet well ???

these are bullets I have loaded up right now ( bear in mind, that I'm loading for a revolver, a 10" Contender barrel, & several rifles )

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=918837

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=692022

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=520110

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...ber=1250118295

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=154485

[swampy308]

So far i've tried H110 & Lil'Gun, with Sierra 40gr. HP #1385 & 40gr Blitzking #1440, my best 5 shot group so far is .483 @ 100 yards with Lil'Gun & the Blitzking, with Fed 205 primers & new Rimington brass.

[CaseyH]

Hey Magnum, I've heard lots of good things about Lil Gun and Hornet bullets from others as well, thanks for the added suggestion. They didn't have any at the local bass pro when I was last there, so I'll have to wait until I can order some or find some around town. I foresee lots of range time

McClintock, I wasn't planning on using the Varmint Grenades on squirrels. They will be used for coyotes, beavers, and possibly hogs. I couldn't agree with you more about 22LR for squirrels, that's all I've ever used. CCI Green Tags are excellent for squirrels if you ask me. They are quiet, low velocity, and accurate. Not much range, though. Incidentally, my dad once tried to load his 22-250 down enough to squirrel hunt with...we can guess how that worked out. He also tells a story of how he once shot a baby hog with his 22-250, and could find absolutely no trace of the thing, just blood spatters. I must've heard that story a million times. I digress....

If I ever get the chance to do some prairie dog hunting, believe you me I'll be there!

I'd love to see one of the Hornet pistols. That's got to be nice little piece!

Thanks again for all the info,

Casey

[Crankylove]

how far past the ogive do you have to seat the bullets you mentioned?

It varies depending on the bullet I am loading at the time, but most are 1/32" or less, if you really look hard at them you can see it, but if I don't point it out, most people never notice. I have not noticed any problems with accuracy, or bullet set-back with these loads (was a little worried about having enough surface area for proper tension on the bullet when I first loaded them) but each rifle is different.

I load the longer profile bullets to where the cartridge is short enough to just barely function inside the magazine, which is also enough to keep them from contacting the lands and grooves, but they are all well over max C.O.L. Seating them deeper does make the limited case capacity of the Hornet a bigger issue for me. I don't care to do compressed loads, so for me, the longer bullets really limit my load options.

One thing to keep in mind when loading the longer bullets, is when seating the bullet deeper in the case, you have the possibillity of increasing the pressure inside the case, so start low and work up your loads.

[butta9999]

Scorch is right on the money with his post.. My uncle has a hornet and uses normal .224 bullets sometimes. Accuracy is fine and there is no sign of key holeing out to 200yds. The only problem he found was having to seat the bullets further back into the case, hence leaving less volume for powder.

I think though he now uses bullets that are made for the hornet.

[jjohnson]

Just out of curiosity, if you were just hunting squirrels for the pot, and didn't mind loading cartridges singly because of the increased overall lenghth, anybody out there try reloading with the 55 grain milsurp bullets?

I have my doubts about the hornet being able to stablize that bullet with a 1 in 16" twist. My Rem 700 in .22-250 has a 1 in 14" twist, and it will stabilize 55grains, but that's the upper limit in that rifle.

So... anybody out there doing that?

Thanks, Gents!

[Magnum Wheel Man]

I was loading 55 grain boat tail spitzers last night for the Hornet... butt... it was for my 1 in 9" twist revolver...

IMO, your 22-250 will stabilize them ( barely ) because of the higher velocity... I've never met a Hornet yet ( except my fast twist revolver ) that would stabilize a 55 grain, & 45 grains seems to be about the limit for most... the Barnes 45 grain solids are a bit spendier but don't ruin any meat, & may stabilize in the Hornet ( the "brass" bullet is a little longer than most lead 45 grains ) so the 1 in 16" & maybe some of the 1 in 14" Hornets may not stabilize them ???

my recommendtion for pot hunting with a "normal" 22 Hornet would be the little 45 grain spitzers I posted the link on my earlier post

[McClintock]

Sorry, CaseyH, I don't know where I got that idea from that you were going to use the Varmint Grenades on squirrels. My bad.

Cheers!
McClintock