1853 Enfield

[oldknotty]

I am getting ready to add to my new Black powder collection with a Chiappa 1853 3 ring Enfield rifled musket .What i need to know is where can I buy the same type and shape of Minie ball that was used in the civil war and also do i need to buy a bigger cap for the nipple . i was watching a video on you tube and the fellow was none too happy with a new type he got from a certain store, plus the caps looked so much bigger than the ones I use on my revolvers .I would also like to shoot regular balls are they classed as 58 cal balls ??

[Mike Weber]

I use the Lyman 566 gr Parker Hale style Minie mold for mine and a musket cap is what your Enfield will use.

[jeager106]

If I might suggest something please?
Read reviews of Chiappa firearms prior to purchase.
Don't know if the reviews cover black powder arms.
Just a thougt.

[MJN77]

Read reviews of Chiappa firearms prior to purchase.
Don't know if the reviews cover black powder arms.
Just a thougt.

Most reviews of Chiappa/Armi Sport firearms, both cartridge and muzzle loader, are positive. The Armi Sport replica 1842 musket is considered the most "authentic" reproduction ACW long arm out of the box. I owned one until I got out of ACW reenactments. I sold it along with my other gear. Wish I hadn't. The enfields and springfields from Armi are also well made. I also know a few folks that own Chiappa 1892 and 1886 replica rifles that are happy with them.

[maillemaker]

I am getting ready to add to my new Black powder collection with a Chiappa 1853 3 ring Enfield rifled musket .What i need to know is where can I buy the same type and shape of Minie ball that was used in the civil war and also do i need to buy a bigger cap for the nipple . i was watching a video on you tube and the fellow was none too happy with a new type he got from a certain store, plus the caps looked so much bigger than the ones I use on my revolvers .I would also like to shoot regular balls are they classed as 58 cal balls ??

My recommendation is DO NOT BUY.

Todd Watts, a reknown "defarber" of these rifles, was trying to get Armisport (Chiappa) to correctly contour the stock to be more historically accurate. They did a horrible job. I don't know how many are still in the shipping pipeline. I would not buy one sight unseen or even in person unless you know what you are looking for.

Get a Pedersoli. The price is about the same, and they have re-tooled the line after they bought out Euroarms.

Prior to Pedersoli, all of the repros were based on the Parker Hale reproduction, which was based on Enfield Type IV tooling from the Royal Armories. Type IV Enfields never saw service in the Civil War.



When Pedersoli retooled, they made their replica look like a Type III BSAT (Birmingham Small Arms Trade) Enfield:

Correct Palmer instead of Badley-style barrel bands.
Correctly shaped sling hardware.
Square-eared lock washers.
Correct markings on lock and hammer.
"Proof marks" on the barrel.
BSAT cartouche on stock.

Also the weight is closer to original. Previous reproductions were about a pound heavy.

I'd go with the Pedersoli.

Now, as for shooting muskets.

They use Musket caps, not pistol percussion caps. Two companies make them: CCI and Dynamite Nobel (RWS). The RWS caps are superior. I will not use the CCI caps in competition. They work acceptibly with an Enfield with a direct-drill fire channel, but in arms like Springfields with a right-angle fire channel I get misfires with CCI.



The above picture is what they look like. Don't know what brand the link is so don't go buy the link to the picture.

For optimal accuracy, you will want to size the bullets (Minie balls or "Expanding Balls") to your musket. My Pedersoli P58 takes a .578 bullet. Other ".58" caliber" rifles I have take .576 bullets. I use a Lyman Lubrsizier with sizing dies to get the correct size and lubricate the bullet at the same time.

Period-style Minie balls work, but so do modern hybrid bullets like the RCBS-Hodgdon bullet, which is what I use in competition. It uses about 100 grains less lead and requires less powder to make it go. being a semi-wadcutter it also makes clean holes in targets.

If you are interested in competition shooting of these kinds of guns, check out the North-South Skirmish Association http://www.n-ssa.org.

Steve

[gyvel]

If there is any way at all you can swing it (time and $$$) look around for a Parker-Hale 1853 Enfield replica in particular, an early one. They are by far the best and most accurate of all the 53s. I have owned mine since the 70s and it has proven to be reliable and extremely accurate when used with the correct Minie ball (other poster mentioned the correct Lyman mold) which must be cast from pure soft lead to allow the skirts to expand and take the rifling.

Many of the parts used on the P-H replicas were actual British leftover NOS parts from the days of the production of the original Enfield and Sniders. The barrel bands on mine were still marked with the broad arrow and virtually all parts would interchange with an original Enfield musket I had.

It uses standard "top hat" musket caps.

Edit: Maillemaker is correct; The P-H replica is of a Type IV and was not used in the Civil War. My collection was not of Civil War weapons but, rather, British military. Also, P-H used a two-piece stock, fashioned somewhat similar to a Finnish Mosin-Nagant "forked" style two-piece stock. (At least the early ones did.)

[Hawg]

CCI musket caps will work fine as long as they're not reenactor caps. I use RWS. I use a home cast Lyman traditional minie that weighs 510 grains and drops from the mold at .577. The standard service charge for U.S. rifles was 60 grains of powder. I use 70. Too much powder will blow past the skirt resulting in poor accuracy.

[4V50 Gary]

Follow what maillemaker suggested and go with a newly made Pedesoli. If you plan to become a reenactor, authenticity is important and absent an original, Pedesoli modified their Enfields to be the earlier variant.

The Confederates also had smoothsided Pritchett Bullets which had a box-wood plug. I use a 535 grain .577 minie ball casted from a Parker-Hale (RCBS) mold. BTW, my Enfields are all Parker Hale, but they're of the pattern made post-war.

[gyvel]

Bottom line: If you're doing "Civil War" then the Pedersoli is the best choice. If you're doing "British," then get the Parker-Hale.

[oldknotty]

Guys I am disabled vet living on a fixed income , $1200 for a BP rifle is way out of my pay scale , that is why i am looking at the Chiappa selections they are just about on the edge of my buying capabilities at this point , i am so into the Black Powder and civil war thing at the moment that i have to keep it at the levels i can afford .The Parker -Hale is waaaay out of my my pay scale as is the Pedersoli They are lovely rifles and would love to own one but that aint gonna happen any timeI have looked on the soon unless uncle sam gives me a sizeable pay raise :-) I have \looked on the usual gun sales sites but cannot seem to get any answers to my queries on the rifles they have for sale ??? It is a tough row to hoe right now ,So Chiappa looks like my best bet and it is close in Dayton Ohio !!

[4V50 Gary]

Frequent the N-SSA website forum. Every now and then a reenactor quits the colors and sells his gear. You might be able to pick up a used Enfield cheaper.

[Col. Mosby]

Your question was about caps and where you can get the proper minnie balls. CCI MUSKET caps will work. RWS are great. If you need a source for those PM me and I will give you a site. Try Track of the Wolf. They sell minnies in different sizes 25 to a package. This way you can see what works best for you. One day you may want to get into casting your own, it is WAY cheaper. You'll need to LUBE the bullets and work up a powder charge that is right for your individual rifle.

I bought a Armisport Enfield years ago. I use a .575 Lyman old style bullet. I have had a lot of fun with it.

No repro. is 100% out of the box. So get what you can afford as long as it is safe, you are happy with it, and ENJOY!!! After all isn't that what this is all about?

[maillemaker]

CCI musket caps will work fine as long as they're not reenactor caps.

Be aware that I have tins of CCI musket caps labeled "Multiple Use" but when you peel the label off underneath it is the original label that says "For Reenactor Use". The part number on both labels is the same.

It's possible the caps are actually different, but I'm betting they have just been re-labeled. I don't trust CCI caps in competition.

Pictures of the peeled label:

http://imgur.com/a/4yxRl

Guys I am disabled vet living on a fixed income , $1200 for a BP rifle is way out of my pay scale

Well, you're in luck, my friend, as Cabela's has them on sale for $799.

I don't know what the Armisports are going for, but you are not going to find a new musket much cheaper than that.

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Peder...et/1389476.uts

Steve

[maillemaker]

Midway USA has Armisport P53 Enfields for $750.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/971...st-barrel-blue

If you want the most historically accurate reproduction P1853 musket available, I'd spend the extra $50 and get the Pedersoli.

Steve

[gyvel]

I think (but not sure) that the barrel bands on the Armisport are blackened brass, and not steel as the originals.

[Hawg]

I think (but not sure) that the barrel bands on the Armisport are blackened brass, and not steel as the originals.

My Armisport made in the 80's are steel. There are minor differences between the original and the older Armisport but you wouldn't notice them unless you knew what to look for. Most noticeable is the rear sight.

Original dated 1861 on top

[gyvel]

Judging from the photo, it looks like the rear sight is definitely different, and the forend tip looks to made of steel (or blackened brass) and not bright brass.

All three of my Enfields (53, 56 and 61) are Parker-Hales, and all more or less share the same components, appropriate for each model. The best one of the three, by far, is the 53 which I got in the early 1970s. The other two I got much later and, to be honest, I noticed a definite decline in overall quality.

[Hawg]

The one on top is an original and the brass nose cap and butt plate have turned black.

[gyvel]

Very nice! Never had an original Enfield, only Sniders, Who was the manufacturer?

[Hawg]

No manufacturers name, It's marked Tower 1861. It's my understanding they weren't marked with a manufacturers name until 1862.

[maillemaker]

I recommend this inexpensive book for lots of information about Civil War era muskets, including the Enfield:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Civil-War-.../dp/0974220124

It has many chapters on the Enfield and all its variants, including descriptions of the various proof and other markings.

Steve

[Oyvind]

One of my first muzzle-loading firearms was an Armi Sport Springfield rifle musket. While the quality and workmanship of the Pedersoli and Parker-Hale is superior to that of Armi Sport, I got the Armi Sport musket to shoot reasonably well. With the RCBS/Hodgdon minié bullet it managed to put five shots in 2" at 100m.

This however, required a lot of work that included:

• lock tuning
• bedding (I used a bedding compound made of fine sawdust and wood glue)
• shaving wood from under the barrel bands to make them sit looser
• enlarging of the bullet mould to correct diameter (the groove diameter was .581")
• making a new rear sight

When the above was done I tested a lot of loads and ended up with the above mentioned bullet lubricated with T/C Bore Butter in front of 58 grains of Wano PP. This was before Swiss powder was available to me.