s&b vs cci Small rifle primers?

axis223 · May 5, 2017, 10:27 AM

I'm wanting to try Benchmark and h332 with small rifle primers and see cabelas has them for $20-1k. I've always been a cci primer guy buy who can pass up $20 bricks.

Is there any real difference in small rifle primers as far as accuracy goes? My main goal is accuracy in 223rem.

Anyone had luck with S&B rifle primers?

T. O'Heir · May 5, 2017, 12:14 PM

Theory is that if you change any one component ,you need to work up the load again. Haven't ever noticed any change with different primers in 40 years myself though. And $20 per 1,000 is dirt cheap these days.
Wouldn't count on the primer alone making any difference in accuracy either. Still, $20 is $20. Try 'em.

**Unclenick** · May 5, 2017, 09:52 PM

In .223, specifically, Charles Petty published some tests in Handloader in 2006 using a 55 grain V-max and 24 grains of Reloader 10X and got velocity to vary from 3150 to 3000 fps by changing primers. That's about the change 4-5% more powder would make. In larger cases using large rifle primers, I've not seen as much difference. Use the search function to find a post by member Slamfire a year or two ago which had some velocities and extreme spreads for different primers, though these were all for .30-06 in the M1 Garand, IIRC. Still, it gives some vague sense of what can happen.

Reloader270 · May 6, 2017, 06:53 AM

Although the following report was done with LR primers, S&B has performed pretty well to all the other brands:

http://www.targetshooter.co.uk/?p=1471

2ndtimer · May 7, 2017, 11:31 PM

I have used almost all the small rifle primers, CCI-400, 450, BR-4, Win SR, Remington 7 1/2, Federal 205, Wolf 223 and Sellier & Bellot SR and really haven't found that much difference, at least in my rifles. I like to have an assortment on hand, and if I hadn't recently purchased 5000 of the S &B small rifle primers, I would have done so this time at Cabela's. They work fine. I note that the Wolf and S&B are a little larger in size and don't seat as easily as Winchester or Remington, but that is the main difference I note with the European primers. I haven't really done a thorough test with the chronograph, but maybe now that I am retired, I might take a shot at it.

**Unclenick** · May 9, 2017, 05:34 PM

If you look under magnification, you will probably see that the final height of the cups was set by something resembling a belt sander. The burrs from these make the primers much harder to seat than, say, a Federal primer. CCI had the same problem before they revamped their production process in 1992. The old ones (I still have a few) absolutely would not seat completely in my Dillon Square Deal B, but new ones do. TulAmmo primers won't seat easily for me, either. Same issue.

Tsquared · May 11, 2017, 07:43 PM

I have reloaded about 10K of the S&B primers and re-verified my loads and found negligible difference between S&B and CCI.

kerreckt · May 12, 2017, 11:32 AM

I have reloaded more than 10k S&B spp and 15-20k of their other flavors (srp,lrp,lpp) never any issues.I believe most primer problems derive from the process used when reloading, i.e. human error.

NoSecondBest · May 12, 2017, 12:59 PM

Over the last fifty years or so, I've only found a few loads in my rifles that changing primers made a significant difference in accuracy. However, I have found some. That doesn't mean that any particular brand of primer is worse or better, it just means that changing it made a change in the end product. In handguns I've never found any difference unless I went from magnum to regular. I'd try the S&B and see what happens. If they aren't the right one for the load you have you can try "adjusting" the powder charge or simply trade them off or sell them to someone else. They are a good primer and the price is right, so give them a try.

May 5, 2017, 10:27 AM	#1
axis223 Senior Member Join Date: March 6, 2016 Posts: 178	s&b vs cci Small rifle primers? I'm wanting to try Benchmark and h332 with small rifle primers and see cabelas has them for $20-1k. I've always been a cci primer guy buy who can pass up $20 bricks. Is there any real difference in small rifle primers as far as accuracy goes? My main goal is accuracy in 223rem. Anyone had luck with S&B rifle primers?

May 5, 2017, 12:14 PM	#2
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Theory is that if you change any one component ,you need to work up the load again. Haven't ever noticed any change with different primers in 40 years myself though. And $20 per 1,000 is dirt cheap these days. Wouldn't count on the primer alone making any difference in accuracy either. Still, $20 is $20. Try 'em. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

May 5, 2017, 09:52 PM	#3
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	In .223, specifically, Charles Petty published some tests in Handloader in 2006 using a 55 grain V-max and 24 grains of Reloader 10X and got velocity to vary from 3150 to 3000 fps by changing primers. That's about the change 4-5% more powder would make. In larger cases using large rifle primers, I've not seen as much difference. Use the search function to find a post by member Slamfire a year or two ago which had some velocities and extreme spreads for different primers, though these were all for .30-06 in the M1 Garand, IIRC. Still, it gives some vague sense of what can happen. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

May 7, 2017, 11:31 PM	#5
2ndtimer Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2004 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 293	I have used almost all the small rifle primers, CCI-400, 450, BR-4, Win SR, Remington 7 1/2, Federal 205, Wolf 223 and Sellier & Bellot SR and really haven't found that much difference, at least in my rifles. I like to have an assortment on hand, and if I hadn't recently purchased 5000 of the S &B small rifle primers, I would have done so this time at Cabela's. They work fine. I note that the Wolf and S&B are a little larger in size and don't seat as easily as Winchester or Remington, but that is the main difference I note with the European primers. I haven't really done a thorough test with the chronograph, but maybe now that I am retired, I might take a shot at it. __________________ NRA Endowment Member

May 9, 2017, 05:34 PM	#6
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	If you look under magnification, you will probably see that the final height of the cups was set by something resembling a belt sander. The burrs from these make the primers much harder to seat than, say, a Federal primer. CCI had the same problem before they revamped their production process in 1992. The old ones (I still have a few) absolutely would not seat completely in my Dillon Square Deal B, but new ones do. TulAmmo primers won't seat easily for me, either. Same issue. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

May 6, 2017, 06:53 AM	#4
Reloader270 Senior Member Join Date: March 14, 2015 Location: South Africa Posts: 138	Although the following report was done with LR primers, S&B has performed pretty well to all the other brands: http://www.targetshooter.co.uk/?p=1471

May 11, 2017, 07:43 PM	#7
Tsquared Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2016 Location: NE Atlanta Posts: 337	I have reloaded about 10K of the S&B primers and re-verified my loads and found negligible difference between S&B and CCI.

May 12, 2017, 11:32 AM	#8
kerreckt Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2011 Location: SE VA. Posts: 216	I have reloaded more than 10k S&B spp and 15-20k of their other flavors (srp,lrp,lpp) never any issues.I believe most primer problems derive from the process used when reloading, i.e. human error.

May 12, 2017, 12:59 PM	#9
NoSecondBest Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 2,736	Over the last fifty years or so, I've only found a few loads in my rifles that changing primers made a significant difference in accuracy. However, I have found some. That doesn't mean that any particular brand of primer is worse or better, it just means that changing it made a change in the end product. In handguns I've never found any difference unless I went from magnum to regular. I'd try the S&B and see what happens. If they aren't the right one for the load you have you can try "adjusting" the powder charge or simply trade them off or sell them to someone else. They are a good primer and the price is right, so give them a try.