Help w/ 45ACP taper crimp?

Mark B · December 2, 2009, 01:24 PM

Here's my problem. I've been loading 200grn. cast SWC in my 45ACPs for a long time with no problems. I recently bought a box of Berry's 200grn plated SWC and I'm having trouble getting a secure taper crimp. I can push the slug into the case with finger pressure. In order to secure the bullet I'm having to put what I feel like is way too much crimp on the case.
I'm using the lee sizing die, and the lee factory crimp die wich lee claims to be incapable of placing a roll crimp but I'm not so sure. Sure looks like a roll crimp to me. A loaded case will fit in the chamber and appears to be headspacing on the case OK but the heavy crimp just has me spooked. the Berrys are .451
Am I over reacting? Or doing something wrong?

thanks!
Mark

Shoney · December 2, 2009, 02:10 PM

If you can push a bullet into a sized case with finger pressure, the brass is not being completely sized or is old and is springing back to a wider diameter after sizing.

Proper taper crimps can be applied by just crimping the expanded portion of a case back to "straight wall" configuration.

I had this problem with Remington brass, as it's ealasticity was not good.

Good Shooting.

Cloudpeak · December 2, 2009, 02:14 PM

Your cast bullets are probably .452" and the plated bullets are .001" less in diameter. You might consider putting your expander plug stem in a drill press and turning down the expander plug a couple of thosandths which will increase the hold on the bullet.

LHB1 · December 2, 2009, 02:32 PM

Agree with Cloudpeak but leave enough of the expander plug to properly expand the mouth of case for ease of bullet entry.

Are you staying warm and dry, CP? Keep all that snow up there; we really don't need it down here in Houston. We get enough to satisfy us during our twice yearly trips to the Rockies.

LHB1 · December 2, 2009, 02:34 PM

??? Double posted somehow. Mods, please delete. Thanks.

tom234 · December 2, 2009, 04:18 PM

.45 ACP dies should only provide a taper crimp. That said, what does your crimp measure ? Your crimp should be .469-.471" since spec is .473".

Cloudpeak · December 2, 2009, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Agree with Cloudpeak but leave enough of the expander plug to properly expand the mouth of case for ease of bullet entry.

Are you staying warm and dry, CP? Keep all that snow up there; we really don't need it down here in Houston. We get enough to satisfy us during our twice yearly trips to the Rockies.
__________________
Good shooting and be safe.
LB

It's a balmy 14 degrees today but no snow

I thought you were going to stop by for a visit sometime? I'm not getting any younger, you know?

To expand on what Shoney and Tom said, the taper crimp is done to remove the case mouth bell. You'll get no more bullet holding power by applying crimp and, in fact, too much taper crimp can loosen the hold on bullets. Tension on the bullet is a function of brass thickness, bullet diameter, sizing die and expander plug.

When first working up loads, I load a couple of dummies and use my barrel as a gauge to chamber check COAL and taper crimp. Tom gave you the specs on crimp diameter.

I wish I'd known about Remington brass before I bought 1,000 once fired

I've heard the same comments from different sources. I just picked up some Hornady XTP 230 grains to play with and was going to use the Remington's. Sounds like I may be firing up the drill press so I can get some neck tension for hopefully more than one or two reloadings

Mark B · December 2, 2009, 05:08 PM

All great points to consider thanks everyone. The cast bullets are 452, I'll measure the crimp tonight. Turning down the expander plug sounds like the fix but I'd surely bugger that up! The brass is definitely not new so I'll try to get my hands on some new brass too. They do fit in the chamber real nice.

Thanks again guys

Caboclo · December 2, 2009, 06:20 PM

This is probably a dumb question: if the brass is getting hard, but otherwise undamaged, can you anneal them in a regular cooking oven and solve the neck tension problem, or would that soften up the base as well and create more problems? Maybe just anneal the necks like a rifle case?

LHB1 · December 2, 2009, 07:49 PM

Quote: "It's a balmy 14 degrees today but no snow I thought you were going to stop by for a visit sometime? I'm not getting any younger, you know?"

CP,
10-4 on not getting any younger but the advice in your posts is still on target as usual. Unfortunately our route doesn't take us thru Buffalo very often. We usually turn off I-25 at Cheyenne or Casper and head straight for Grand Tetons.

I noticed a difference in loading Rem brass also. Wasn't sure if it was thinner or softer or what. My aproach was to avoid the problem so I bought several thousand Win .44 Mag and .45 ACP cases several years ago before prices started climbing. Turned out to be good timing which is unusual for me.

December 2, 2009, 01:24 PM	#1
Mark B Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2007 Posts: 334	Help w/ 45ACP taper crimp? Here's my problem. I've been loading 200grn. cast SWC in my 45ACPs for a long time with no problems. I recently bought a box of Berry's 200grn plated SWC and I'm having trouble getting a secure taper crimp. I can push the slug into the case with finger pressure. In order to secure the bullet I'm having to put what I feel like is way too much crimp on the case. I'm using the lee sizing die, and the lee factory crimp die wich lee claims to be incapable of placing a roll crimp but I'm not so sure. Sure looks like a roll crimp to me. A loaded case will fit in the chamber and appears to be headspacing on the case OK but the heavy crimp just has me spooked. the Berrys are .451 Am I over reacting? Or doing something wrong? thanks! Mark

December 2, 2009, 02:10 PM	#2
Shoney Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2002 Location: Transplanted from Montana Posts: 2,311	If you can push a bullet into a sized case with finger pressure, the brass is not being completely sized or is old and is springing back to a wider diameter after sizing. Proper taper crimps can be applied by just crimping the expanded portion of a case back to "straight wall" configuration. I had this problem with Remington brass, as it's ealasticity was not good. Good Shooting. __________________ I pledge allegiance to the Flag - - -, and to the Republic for which it stands….Our Forefathers were brilliant for giving us a Republic, not a democracy! Do you know the difference??? and WHY?http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissue...les.asp?id=111 Last edited by Shoney; December 2, 2009 at 02:30 PM.

December 2, 2009, 02:14 PM	#3
Cloudpeak Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 2005 Location: Wyoming Posts: 288	Your cast bullets are probably .452" and the plated bullets are .001" less in diameter. You might consider putting your expander plug stem in a drill press and turning down the expander plug a couple of thosandths which will increase the hold on the bullet. __________________ Cloudpeak

December 2, 2009, 02:34 PM	#5
LHB1 Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,545	??? Double posted somehow. Mods, please delete. Thanks. __________________ Good shooting and be safe. LB

December 2, 2009, 07:49 PM	#10
LHB1 Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,545	Quote: "It's a balmy 14 degrees today but no snow I thought you were going to stop by for a visit sometime? I'm not getting any younger, you know?" CP, 10-4 on not getting any younger but the advice in your posts is still on target as usual. Unfortunately our route doesn't take us thru Buffalo very often. We usually turn off I-25 at Cheyenne or Casper and head straight for Grand Tetons. I noticed a difference in loading Rem brass also. Wasn't sure if it was thinner or softer or what. My aproach was to avoid the problem so I bought several thousand Win .44 Mag and .45 ACP cases several years ago before prices started climbing. Turned out to be good timing which is unusual for me. __________________ Good shooting and be safe. LB

December 2, 2009, 02:32 PM	#4
LHB1 Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,545	Agree with Cloudpeak but leave enough of the expander plug to properly expand the mouth of case for ease of bullet entry. Are you staying warm and dry, CP? Keep all that snow up there; we really don't need it down here in Houston. We get enough to satisfy us during our twice yearly trips to the Rockies. __________________ Good shooting and be safe. LB

December 2, 2009, 04:18 PM	#6
tom234 Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 2008 Location: Kansas Posts: 753	.45 ACP dies should only provide a taper crimp. That said, what does your crimp measure ? Your crimp should be .469-.471" since spec is .473".

December 2, 2009, 05:08 PM	#8
Mark B Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2007 Posts: 334	All great points to consider thanks everyone. The cast bullets are 452, I'll measure the crimp tonight. Turning down the expander plug sounds like the fix but I'd surely bugger that up! The brass is definitely not new so I'll try to get my hands on some new brass too. They do fit in the chamber real nice. Thanks again guys

December 2, 2009, 06:20 PM	#9
Caboclo Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2009 Posts: 212	This is probably a dumb question: if the brass is getting hard, but otherwise undamaged, can you anneal them in a regular cooking oven and solve the neck tension problem, or would that soften up the base as well and create more problems? Maybe just anneal the necks like a rifle case?