I need help, something bad has happened to my skills.

frank4570 · June 19, 2004, 11:38 PM

A few years ago I was in pistol silhouette competion and I did fine. When I got my concealed carry permit I was by far the best shot in the class. Then I guess I just got out of the habit of shooting a handgun on a regular basis for a few years. And now I am having trouble. For some reason I have developed a flinch or something like it in spite of the fact my gun is very soft recoiling. My groups are way to big and far left. When I can get myself to focus and just do what I am supposed to do, my groups go back to very acceptable groups. But that is kind of rare lately, I've just started shooting again. If I was shooting a revolver I would play the game where I put a few live rounds in the cylinder then give it a spin and close it, then shoot. That has worked pretty well in the past. But I have a semi-auto now so what I have done is made up some dummy rounds that I mix with live rounds in the magazine.
This helps and I intend to do a lot of shooting like this, but any other ideas would be appreciated.
Thanks.

yankytrash · June 19, 2004, 11:52 PM

Dry fire dry fire dry fire. Live, eat, and breathe that carry gun.

Jake 98c/11b · June 20, 2004, 01:45 AM

You have already answered your own question, when you shot regularly you shot well but now that you have been out of shooting for a while you don't. Kinda makes it easy doesn't it?

19114EVER · June 20, 2004, 05:27 PM

Go to the range with a buddy. Get some Snap Caps. http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd/p...C5SX547KXK06QD

Have your buddy load your magazine with a mix of Snap Caps and live ammo while you're not looking. Have your buddy load the weapon and place it on the bench. Then, pick up your weapon and commence fire. You'll notice right off the bat if your flinching because your weapon clicks and still moves, usually low and left. A good form of punishment for flinching is having to drop and do pushups. Knock out 25 every time you flinch. After a while, you won't even care about perceived recoil because you're so broken off, your weapon will just run.

Jeff Gonzales · June 21, 2004, 09:18 AM

Frank,

Seek out a qualified professional who can help isolate what is going on, provide a solution and then monitor your performance to ensure the soluition is being implemented. By no means do you need to pursue this option, but if you really want a solution that will have long term effects you should strongly encourage obtaining some training. Good luck.

Later,

45 Fu · June 21, 2004, 09:29 AM

Dry fire is, perhaps, the best way to remedy this. If you can control your trigger pull so that the sights are still properly aligned at the time the sear breaks your shooting will be much improved. Sight alignment/trigger contol is the root of 99% of all shooting problems.

One other thing to condsider; when target shooting you probably made sure to follow through on each shot. This means letting the shot break and waiting a second or two before moving the weapon. Combat shooting is a little different (time is a premium) but the most important thing is still getting the shot there. Slow down, take your time, and let the fundamentals get rewritten in your brain. The speed will come but the accuracy never will until you have rebuilt your foundation on solid marksmanship.

Hope this helps.

Tamara · June 21, 2004, 10:04 AM

Quote:

If I was shooting a revolver I would play the game where I put a few live rounds in the cylinder then give it a spin and close it, then shoot. That has worked pretty well in the past. But I have a semi-auto now...

Can I infer from this that the pistol is new to you, and you didn't own it back when you were shooting competitively?

Dwight55 · June 25, 2004, 10:48 PM

Just in case you missed it, . . . the other guy was right when he said you need to practice, practice, practice. Dry fire, dummy loads, light loads, full house Rhino stoppers, . . . go after em all.

My favorite trick is to burn a box of .22 through my 12" bull barrel Browning (no recoil, little noise) to let me see what I am doing wrong. One or two clips and I am usually back on track.
May God bless,
Dwight

LAK · June 26, 2004, 08:45 PM

"... When I can get myself to focus and just do what I am supposed to do, my groups go back to very acceptable groups ...."

Frank, you did indeed answer your own question. Maintaining concentration is essential. But rather than trying to cure it by shooting more, I would say you need to perhaps shoot less for now, as just shooting more in and of itself is not going to do any good. Concentrate, shoot like your life depended on it, and when you start straying - take a break.

W Turner · June 30, 2004, 03:29 PM

I can relate completely. Up until two years ago, I lived about 20 min. from a good outdoor range and was able to go regularly. I bought a new house and while I have ket my membership up, i rarely ever shoot anymore outside the monthly IDPA match. I have definitely noticed a marked decline in my shooting ability since then.

When I was still practicing regularly, I was at the bottom of the "top" tier of shooters. These are guys who shoot weekly and practice during the week. The biggest difference in scores was usually from me to the guys who shot rarely (kinda like me now). Now I am getting skunked reglularly by pretty much everyone. My accuracy has gone down the tubes and I am getting stressed after each stage (my hands sometimes shake). These were all things I experienced when I first shot, but had improved on when I was still shooting a lot. Now I kind of dread each match,but I know I need trigger time.

It doesn't help that the few times I ahve gone to to the range, the trips have been with new shooters that I had to supervise and I was not able to work on my own skills.

W

Bruce 45/70 · July 2, 2004, 05:08 AM

Jeff is right. Seek out professional training. This will help you make great strides in your shooting. Or you could ignore this advice and in ten years still be shooting the same and wondering why you haven't improved even though you go shooting with your buddies every week.

frank4570 · July 4, 2004, 12:34 AM

Well things have improved quite a bit. I went and talked to a friend who used to be a pistol instructor for the state police. He told me I am on the right track with useing dummy and live rounds and he gave me some advice about trigger pull. After a few days of the dummy/ball drills and a lot of very embarrasing trigger pulls on dummy rounds, I am starting to settle in a little. My groups now at 30 yards are about 6 inches, all offhand of course. Not world class I know but WAY WAY WAY better than what I was doing at about 15 yards. Heck, before I couldn't even adjust my sights because I really couldn't tell where the group was.
Now that I am actually hitting what I am aiming at I am starting to enjoy shooting again.But I still plan on a lot of the training drills for quite some time to come. The gun has proven itself, now I need to do my part.
Soon I should be blowing up soda cans at 35yds, I can't wait.

frank4570 · July 4, 2004, 12:47 AM

Tamara, Yep, totally new gun to me. This is a 10mm Witness compact. Very comfortable gun and surprisingly low recoil. It absolutely kicks less than my .40 Hi-Power, my Hi-Power actually seems to hurt now, I havn't figured that one out yet. Grip shape? I also used to shoot .357 and 30/30 contender in competition. And I also used to shoot my contender in 4570. Talk about fierce!
But except for chasing the occasional fox all over creation, I havn't shot any handguns for a few years now. I am sure that is why my flinching habbit has shown up. I'll just have to train out of it.

June 19, 2004, 11:38 PM	#1
frank4570 Member Join Date: October 3, 2002 Posts: 78	I need help, something bad has happened to my skills. A few years ago I was in pistol silhouette competion and I did fine. When I got my concealed carry permit I was by far the best shot in the class. Then I guess I just got out of the habit of shooting a handgun on a regular basis for a few years. And now I am having trouble. For some reason I have developed a flinch or something like it in spite of the fact my gun is very soft recoiling. My groups are way to big and far left. When I can get myself to focus and just do what I am supposed to do, my groups go back to very acceptable groups. But that is kind of rare lately, I've just started shooting again. If I was shooting a revolver I would play the game where I put a few live rounds in the cylinder then give it a spin and close it, then shoot. That has worked pretty well in the past. But I have a semi-auto now so what I have done is made up some dummy rounds that I mix with live rounds in the magazine. This helps and I intend to do a lot of shooting like this, but any other ideas would be appreciated. Thanks.

June 19, 2004, 11:52 PM	#2
yankytrash Senior Member Join Date: April 17, 2001 Location: Farnham, Va Posts: 2,183	Dry fire dry fire dry fire. Live, eat, and breathe that carry gun. __________________ Right turn, Clyde.

June 21, 2004, 09:18 AM	#5
Jeff Gonzales Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2004 Location: Prescott, AZ Posts: 126	Seek training Frank, Seek out a qualified professional who can help isolate what is going on, provide a solution and then monitor your performance to ensure the soluition is being implemented. By no means do you need to pursue this option, but if you really want a solution that will have long term effects you should strongly encourage obtaining some training. Good luck. Later, __________________ Jeff Gonzales Director of Training Trident Concepts, LLC.

June 21, 2004, 09:29 AM	#6
45 Fu Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2004 Posts: 422	Sight alignment & trigger control Dry fire is, perhaps, the best way to remedy this. If you can control your trigger pull so that the sights are still properly aligned at the time the sear breaks your shooting will be much improved. Sight alignment/trigger contol is the root of 99% of all shooting problems. One other thing to condsider; when target shooting you probably made sure to follow through on each shot. This means letting the shot break and waiting a second or two before moving the weapon. Combat shooting is a little different (time is a premium) but the most important thing is still getting the shot there. Slow down, take your time, and let the fundamentals get rewritten in your brain. The speed will come but the accuracy never will until you have rebuilt your foundation on solid marksmanship. Hope this helps.

June 20, 2004, 01:45 AM	#3
Jake 98c/11b Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 1999 Posts: 471	You have already answered your own question, when you shot regularly you shot well but now that you have been out of shooting for a while you don't. Kinda makes it easy doesn't it?

June 20, 2004, 05:27 PM	#4
19114EVER Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 148	Go to the range with a buddy. Get some Snap Caps. http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd/p...C5SX547KXK06QD Have your buddy load your magazine with a mix of Snap Caps and live ammo while you're not looking. Have your buddy load the weapon and place it on the bench. Then, pick up your weapon and commence fire. You'll notice right off the bat if your flinching because your weapon clicks and still moves, usually low and left. A good form of punishment for flinching is having to drop and do pushups. Knock out 25 every time you flinch. After a while, you won't even care about perceived recoil because you're so broken off, your weapon will just run.

June 25, 2004, 10:48 PM	#8
Dwight55 Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2004 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 2,568	Just in case you missed it, . . . the other guy was right when he said you need to practice, practice, practice. Dry fire, dummy loads, light loads, full house Rhino stoppers, . . . go after em all. My favorite trick is to burn a box of .22 through my 12" bull barrel Browning (no recoil, little noise) to let me see what I am doing wrong. One or two clips and I am usually back on track. May God bless, Dwight

June 26, 2004, 08:45 PM	#9
LAK Junior member Join Date: May 14, 2002 Posts: 2,251	"... When I can get myself to focus and just do what I am supposed to do, my groups go back to very acceptable groups ...." Frank, you did indeed answer your own question. Maintaining concentration is essential. But rather than trying to cure it by shooting more, I would say you need to perhaps shoot less for now, as just shooting more in and of itself is not going to do any good. Concentrate, shoot like your life depended on it, and when you start straying - take a break.

June 30, 2004, 03:29 PM	#10
W Turner Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2002 Location: Alabama Posts: 130	I can relate completely. Up until two years ago, I lived about 20 min. from a good outdoor range and was able to go regularly. I bought a new house and while I have ket my membership up, i rarely ever shoot anymore outside the monthly IDPA match. I have definitely noticed a marked decline in my shooting ability since then. When I was still practicing regularly, I was at the bottom of the "top" tier of shooters. These are guys who shoot weekly and practice during the week. The biggest difference in scores was usually from me to the guys who shot rarely (kinda like me now). Now I am getting skunked reglularly by pretty much everyone. My accuracy has gone down the tubes and I am getting stressed after each stage (my hands sometimes shake). These were all things I experienced when I first shot, but had improved on when I was still shooting a lot. Now I kind of dread each match,but I know I need trigger time. It doesn't help that the few times I ahve gone to to the range, the trips have been with new shooters that I had to supervise and I was not able to work on my own skills. W

July 2, 2004, 05:08 AM	#11
Bruce 45/70 Junior Member Join Date: June 1, 2004 Posts: 4	Jeff is right. Seek out professional training. This will help you make great strides in your shooting. Or you could ignore this advice and in ten years still be shooting the same and wondering why you haven't improved even though you go shooting with your buddies every week.

July 4, 2004, 12:34 AM	#12
frank4570 Member Join Date: October 3, 2002 Posts: 78	Well things have improved quite a bit. I went and talked to a friend who used to be a pistol instructor for the state police. He told me I am on the right track with useing dummy and live rounds and he gave me some advice about trigger pull. After a few days of the dummy/ball drills and a lot of very embarrasing trigger pulls on dummy rounds, I am starting to settle in a little. My groups now at 30 yards are about 6 inches, all offhand of course. Not world class I know but WAY WAY WAY better than what I was doing at about 15 yards. Heck, before I couldn't even adjust my sights because I really couldn't tell where the group was. Now that I am actually hitting what I am aiming at I am starting to enjoy shooting again.But I still plan on a lot of the training drills for quite some time to come. The gun has proven itself, now I need to do my part. Soon I should be blowing up soda cans at 35yds, I can't wait.

July 4, 2004, 12:47 AM	#13
frank4570 Member Join Date: October 3, 2002 Posts: 78	Tamara, Yep, totally new gun to me. This is a 10mm Witness compact. Very comfortable gun and surprisingly low recoil. It absolutely kicks less than my .40 Hi-Power, my Hi-Power actually seems to hurt now, I havn't figured that one out yet. Grip shape? I also used to shoot .357 and 30/30 contender in competition. And I also used to shoot my contender in 4570. Talk about fierce! But except for chasing the occasional fox all over creation, I havn't shot any handguns for a few years now. I am sure that is why my flinching habbit has shown up. I'll just have to train out of it.