Manipulating The Safety

[Gabe Suarez]

Often when we ask ourselves why we do something a certain way, we see the shrugging of shoulders and the wrinkling of brows, accompanied with the typical “I dunno…we’ve always done it this way”. Usually this is tied to some meaningless administrative shuffling of papers, or distribution of memos on minutia. Sometimes, however, it is seen in the field of weaponcraft.

One example may be the manipulation of the safety lever, or decocking levers on service pistols. Much of the current accepted practice on pistol deployment has come to us from the use and deployment of the 1911, as well as from certain military circles. Often we see what I call “scary” gunhandling. Scary in the sense that the operator is afraid of his cocked pistol. And from what seems like fear of the cocked weapon, we see premature safety engagement as well as premature decocking.

Gunfights are dangerous. Nothing can be done to make these events “safe”. We bring loaded and dangerous weapons such as pistols to these events to deactivate our adversaries before they can do likewise to us. With that in mind, we want to avoid with severe focus anything that detracts from that mission.

Premature engaging of safeties, or premature decocking diminishes our fighting capability. I once taught a tactics class to a group of 1911 users. This team had just returned from a very high dollar 1911-based school. They were very anal retentive about, “On The Sights – Safety Off – Off The Sights – Safety On”, that I could track the team’s movement through the house by listening to the sound of their custom Low Thumb safeties engaging and disengaging. Moreover, as the heat got turned up several operators missed their safety levers because they had been engaged reflexively during tactical events. Not good!

At Suarez International we believe there are three safeties.

1). Your Brain, which is telling you to Shoot or Not Shoot, based on what you see. If your mind is not switched on and dialed in to the events around you, you have no business with a gun in your hand. Period.

2). Your educated trigger finger, which is in register (alongside the frame, or preferably resting on the slide stop button or other easily felt index point) until the brain, decides to shoot or not to shoot.

3). The mechanical safety - which is engaged when the weapon will be out of your immediate control (ie. holster or sling).

Anytime the weapon is in hand, the safety should be disengaged. When you decide to relinquish control of the weapon to sling or holster, then engage the safety.

When I was issued an MP5, we trained to operate it with the selector set on Full Auto and finger off the trigger. When we transitioned to sling to go hands on, we engaged the safety.

When I carried a S&W 5906, I thumb cocked the pistol (if I had time) dealt with the tactical problem, and then decocked when I had decided I was going to holster. Also witness the Glock pistol with which such a vast number of police, security professionals, and civilian defenders are armed with. Where is the safety/decocking lever? There is not one, and Glock shooters operate using the methodology we described.

Undoubtedly there will be those who aggressively disagree with this approach. That’s fine, they can disagree but I do not think that their disagreement invalidates the concept. What do you think?

Remember, we are in the fight to win. This usually means hitting the other man before he hits us. Anything that detracts from that mission, either tactical, technical, or equipment, should be discarded and replaced with a better system. When it comes to manipulating the safety, the better system is In Hand/ Safety Off - In Holster/Safety On.
Cheers,


Gabe Suarez
Suarez International USA
http://www.suarezinternational.com

[Mannlicher]

I am not an 'operator', nor do I play one on tv (or at the gun range). I do, however, feel that I discovered the 'three safties' some years prior to being shown them here.
This not rocket science. This is common sense. More people need some, thats for sure, but by the same token, there are not as many bozos out there as some would have us believe.

[SapperLeader]

Gabe Suarez, great post, and I agree 100%. I think most people start trusting more in the mechanical safety on the gun, than they do the safety between the ears.

[19114EVER]

Kudos, bud. I couldn't have put it any prettier than you did.

Also, be a little leery of placing your trigger finger on the slide stop button of a 1911. Sometimes, you can nudge the slide stop out just enough for your weapon to hiccup after firing. A better place for your finger is along your slide, above the slide stop button, and just under the ejection port. Or, you can do what I did and obtain a slide stop that doesn't protrude out the opposite end, or file it down and touch it up with blueing.

[Rich Lucibella]

Gabe-
Lemme get something straight. Are you advocating that the thumb safety on a 1911 should be snicked off at the time we obtain a sure firing grip in a situation where we think we may need to shoot?

Others:
Do not assume this as a loaded question. I'm asking a straight up question without benefit of knowing the "right" answer.
Rich

[Tamara]

I may have been doing this wrong all this time, but I've always popped the safety off as the muzzle went horizontal (finger still outside the trigger guard unless something's there that needs immediate drilling,) and popped the safety back on as the muzzle left the horizontal. In other words, I key the thumb motion/safety position to the orientation of the muzzle: Down=on, forward=off...

Standing by to be chewed out...

[yankytrash]

Chewed out? I'm wondering why Gabe isn't being chewed out for suggesting such common sense. Lord knows, had I brought up a post like that, I'd spontaniously combust into flames from the immediate "How dare you's"...

Gun in hand, mechanical safety off, period. Hunters can tell you hundreds of horror stories of prized wall-hangers that got away over an engaged safety. You will be the wall-hanger if you train to engage the safety on a gun in-hand.

[sks]

Great post! Another reason I like Sig.

[kidcoltoutlaw]

but he got a way in thick brush.would you go after him with the satey on ask yourself that ? now is a man less dangerous,thanks,keith

[Rich Lucibella]

Well this is an issue that has come up as recently as Thunder Ranch two weeks ago. I realized that I made it thru multiple Gunsite and TR courses without being called on the fact that my safety comes off as the muzzle reaches the horizontal, index finger straight. When I discussed this with several of the trainers, I became even more confused, as did two of my companions. I'm not certain that I'm properly representing what I was told but here goes:

1) Safety is snicked off at the time our finger goes to the trigger. ie: When we are prepared to shoot.
2) Finger should be in the trigger guard whenever our muzzle is covering a threat, including a covering action.

If I understand this correctly I have several problems with it. First, hold your hand out as though you're holding a gun. Depress an imaginary safety with the thumb and watch your index finger....it curls (flexes) slightly, doesn't it. What's it gonna do under adrenalin dump?

On the other hand, as Clint pointed out in a house clearing scenario, searching with that safety off on a handgun or carbine, is asking for trouble, finger straight or not. I find it hard to disagree with this logic and have reexamined my manual of arms only to find that, in the hunting field, the safety on a rifle is disengaged only at the moment of shooting....as per Clint's instruction.

[aside to Yankee Trash]
I specifically disagree with your suggestion that rifle safeties can be off in the field any time other than when that rifle is coming to the shoulder. I simply will not hunt with anyone who believes differently.
[aside to kidcolt]
Yup. My safety would be engaged. Two years ago, stalking an (unwounded) lion in tall grass, I had my 45-70 in hand. Are you suggesting that the hammer should have been cocked, when the proper manual of arms will have it in a firing position before the stock seats in the shoulder? (Same gos for any decent bolt or semi auto gun.) Had one of my party, especially one behind me, insisted on disengaging his safety, that stalk would have been aborted right then and there.)
[aside off]

So, after years of mistraining, I'm relearning to disengage the 1911 safety at the time my finger goes to the trigger. What I disagree with, if I understand the Modern Technique correctly, is the concept of ever doing either except in the instant before a projectile is to be launched from the pointy end of the weapon. Fingers in trigger guards while we're looking for what's in the suspect hands is, in my very humble opinion, a dangerous practice....for me In fact, covering any portion of a suspect's body, without full intention of shooting is being written out of my repertoire, in favor of the original "low ready", as required by Rule 2.

I realize this is not as operator, high speed in a "looking thru your sights" and using gun mounted lights for searching world. However, I'll take my chances that I can raise the muzzle 30 degrees as quickly as 10 degrees.

[Sweatnbullets]

At the risk of having my @$$ handed to me.....

Since my choice of HG do not have external safeties, does that make me dangerous or negligent? Absolutely not!

Mental safety, finger straight, and muzzle control, muzzle control, muzzle control.

I think that there is a problem with teaching techniques that can not be applied to all weapon systems. Gun in hand, (due to a precieved threat) safety off. Now that can be applied to all weapon systems. I do the same with my shotgun and my carbine. Now if I have to move and there is no precieved threat, THEN the safety goes back on.

It almost seems that if I do not own a 1911 and I do not take the safety off at the decision to shoot and back on as soon as I am done shooting, I am a hazard to all. I wholeheartedly disagree with Clint on that.

What about close contact? That is a shooting position. Why wouldn't you always train to make sure the safety is off when you are at this position? Sounds like you could be ingraining something that could cost you your life.

[Rich Lucibella]

Sweatn-
No, you are not unsafe if you choose a Glock or a revolver. The idea is to use what safeties you have....and remember that the 1911 has a much lighter trigger than any of the others. This is made possible only because of the thumb safety.....once that safety is disengaged, it's no different than carrying a cocked revolver. This is far different than a Glock. Also remember that I may not be relating Clint's instruction properly.

But let's look at my scenario for a search compared to yours:
Rich: Firing grip. Finger straight. Safety on. Move. Threat. Assess...No Shoot. Move. Threat. Assess. Decision to shoot. Safety off as sights align and trigger is pressed.

Yours: Firing Grip. Finger straight. Safety off. Move. Safety engaged. Threat. Safety off as we assess. No shoot. Safety on. Move. Threat. Decision to shoot. Safety off as sights align and trigger is pressed.

I submit that your manual of arms is more complicated than mine....and "more complicated" is Mr. Murphy's most beloved invite. You're bobbing that safety back and forth constantly regardless of a decision to fire. I'm disengaging only to shoot. One movement determined by a decision to fire.

For close quarters, the decision to shoot may occur before you even grip the weapon...agreed? Firing grip. Draw. Sights acquire target as safety comes off and trigger is pressed. The only difference is that you may not have eyes on the sights at that point, but the muzzle is still on target.

As to other weapon systems, it's gonna be universal. The decision to shoot results in a thumb and forefinger movement, only if you're regular gun is a 1911. For Glocks and revolvers, it matters not what the thumb does....I carry Glocks and have never had any confusion in a training scenario. 870 Shotgun is slightly different; lever action on half cock still different. But that's why we train in our weapon systems, no.

Alternatively, lemme ask you this: You're searching with an AR Carbine. Are you bobbing that safety back and forth every time a potential threat comes into view and reengaging when you find out the target is a friendly? How about when you have to go one handed in order to open a door? What are you doing if the only gun available to you is an 870 or a lever gun?


Rich

[yankytrash]

Safeties exist only between the ears.

Rich, let me use your example and go hypothetical. Two men are stalking through the woods (although that's highly unlikely, let's go with it...). One is trained to use mechanical safeties, one is trained to use only the safety between his ears.

First guy trips. He's gonna go flat on his face. Safety's engaged on the rifle, since that's how he's taught. As he falls, he thinks, "this is gonna hurt!" He throws his arms out and catches himself, inches away from doing a nose-plant. Muzzle hits the dirt, or worse yet, covers his hunting partner just as it hits the ground. Boy, I hope that safety works. Kinda like running a car into a brick wall on the promise that the airbags work.

Second guy trips. Safety between his ears engages. He grabs the rifle with one or both hands to be sure the muzzle doesn't point somewhere he doesn't want it to, and cushions the blow of the rifle to the ground. Sure, it probably means hitting the ground harder with his body than he was hoping, and perhaps even had to roll toward his back or shoulder on the way down, but the whole time his thought process concentrates on keeping the gun controlled.



Here's a real world example, first hand. I was at a USPSA shoot. A young boy is shooting there with his father. This boy's been trained for this high-speed competition stuff since a young age, and is pretty confident with a pistol. His particular gun is one of those high-end STI raceguns with with super-light this and the super-light that. Triggers and safeties disengage on this gun if you look at it funny.
On one round, this boy's up. He's pretty enthusiastic. Buzzer goes, he draws and fires almost the very millisecond he's taking a step out of the box. He's running and shooting, and throws in a mandatory reload before jumping into the next box.
Unfortunately for this boy, he's plagued with the same disease as I am - huge feet. As he goes to step into the next box, he trips (wonder why I used "trip" as an example?). He falls to his face. I mean full face-plant, eat a handful of dirt, bloody nose face-plant.
Was the face-plant because he has slow reaction speed, like he couldn't catch himself? No, it was because the safety between his ears was engaged. His hands were preoccupied keeping the pistol cushioned from impact and trying to keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction.
Nobody was hurt but his ego. Unfortunately, his muzzle broke the 180 degree plane and his father was one of the RO's, so he was DQ'ed and cussed out by his father. I personally gave him a "good job" before he left for not killing anybody.



That's where I believe the difference lies - between the ears. Some trust the mechanics of it all to do the work for them, and some trust only the person behind the trigger.

Lastly, to pick on your quote one more time, you said, "I specifically disagree with your suggestion that rifle safeties can be off in the field any time other than when that rifle is coming to the shoulder." We're actually in full agreement there. The only difference is what we each consider to be a "safety".

[Rich Lucibella]

YT-
You've inadvertently created a specious argument. Essentially, you're arguing that the second guy is going to observe Rule Number II because he's taken his safety off.

Let's make it an even playing field. Both guys fall and both observe all the rules. Who's less likely to have an adverse outcome? As someone much brighter than me very recently stated, he's fallen alot more than he's gotten into gun fights. YMMV.

Just as in the case of the young boy you mention. You're essentially arguing that those who do not disengage safeties willy nilly are, by definition, people who rely only on mechanical safeties. I'm sorry, but that's the definition of specious. One can observe all of the Rules with the safety engaged and have one extra margin of safety against debris, tree branches, roller skates, toys and gear catching the trigger.

And one can do it with no loss of reaction time.
Rich

[Sweatnbullets]

Alternatively, lemme ask you this: You're searching with an AR Carbine. Are you bobbing that safety back and forth every time a potential threat comes into view and reengaging when you find out the target is a friendly? How about when you have to go one handed in order to open a door? What are you doing if the only gun available to you is an 870 or a lever gun?

First of all let me tell you that I am not a LEO or military, just a well trained civilian.

Good question and this is definitely just a difference in the way that we have been trained. We both know that there are "more than one way to skin a cat." All of this is situational and it would be determined depending on the information at hand. If the information was breaking glass followed by screams from my child, my reaction and the use of my safety would be different from a bump in the night (with no reaction from my German shepard) that had to be checked out.

I was taught to disengauge the safety as soon as a threat was precieved and the gun begins to move. With my AR, I would be in an indoor ready, safety on. As a threat was precieved I would disengauge the safety and come to a contact ready (level at the waistline.) The finger would be straight, and the ID process would be in high gear. If I ID'ed a BG I am in position to shoot right now and I can use the recoil to zipper upward. At this point I would still be in an precieved threat situation (one BG in my house and possible more still there) I would not engauge my safety at this point, because I am not safe yet.

Lets say that the ID is made and it is just my wife getting a drink of water. The safety would be be engauged and I would check out the rest of the house, so I could comfortable go back to sleep.

To open a door I have not positively ID'ed a precieved threat, safety is on as the doorknob is being turn. As I throw open the door and stepped back the safety would still be on as the AR came up to a low ready. If an ID has to be made the safety would come off as I moved to a contact ready, finger still straight.

On the my 870 my trigger finger is still staged on the safety

[yankytrash]

Specious, agreed. Thanks for the new word.

I'm taking this from a lefty's standpoint. With the arguments above, lefty's can't, and shouldn't, own 10/22's, 870's, stock 1911's, and an entire plethora of other guns if we are to use them in any other atmosphere than slow-fire range shooting.

I have to take the stance that the safety between your ears is just as good, or better, than a mechanical safety. Especially to those of us who trianed without it since the first day we picked up a gun.

My second nature is that there is no mechanical safety on a gun, because of pure circumstance. To make me use one now would be nothing short of signing my death certificate, not only in a self-defense scenario, but in the amount of food I put on my table every year from hunting. If right-handers want to know what it's like, what do you think about the new key locks on firearms? Would you key-lock your firearm in a situation where you might need to use your firearm? Of course not. For any shooter, anything more than a single fluid motion to the point of trigger pull is just silly.

That's where I'm coming from. We've (lefties) had to use the safety between our ears for years now, quietly, with little more mishap than what right-handed shooters have had over those same years. It's worked fine thusfar, does it not work now for some reason? Are modern lefties stupider than the lefties of old? Of course, I don't expect an answer to that last one, because there is no answer.

[Rich Lucibella]

Now we're cooking with gas.

To both of you, believe me, I was in the same camp as you until a few weeks ago when I really started to examine this. I'm 50 years old and have decided to retrain myself. I don't believe this is impossible by any stretch of the imagination. It's burning in pretty quick with dry fire.

"Situational": I agree, that's the key. The original Modern Technique taught "Sights On=Safety Disengaged/Finger on Trigger". But it also taught a "Low Ready" where the muzzle was pointed in a safe direction during the assess, Safety On, Finger straight. That technique has now evolved to the ready being a position where the sights are just below the hands (often covering something I'm not yet willing to destroy), safety off/finger on the trigger.

For my life and situation, I'm returning to the original technique, simply because I don't like the idea of "assessing" friendlies with two of the three Rules violated.

You both use a middle ground, that I had used for years.....safety off anytime we feel a threat is imminent, finger straight until the shoot. I've no problem with that. I just think that it's more prone to mishap with no apparent benefit.

Are there times that situation would cause me to do it differently? Yes and the scenario of breaking glass followed by a child's screams might well be one of them. Or a rustle in the bushes on a stalk. But, as a general rule, no.

Yankee, the issue of a lefty is an issue for you to personally work out. It clearly limits your choice of shooting platforms, but hardly leaves you in the Stone Age. There are ambi safeties for about every major weapon platform out there. And there is simply no excuse you could find that'd cause me to assent to join you in the field with you carrying a chamber loaded rifle, safety off. I'm not saying you are unsafe; your choice of carry is. And, while Safety Is Between the ears, repeating those words does not render an unsafe method of carry acceptable.
Rich

[KSFreeman]

Anytime "gun in hand" safety is off? I guess it depends on how you define "in hand".

If "in hand" means #1 on the drawstroke (grip), or searching for a threat or out afield for quail, I'm going to disagree, but since my opinion is feckless--who cares?

Unless shooting from retention, I've always wiped the safety off between 4/5 and put it back on when searching or going back to ready, but I'm old fashion.

Riddle me this: if having the safety on is so "dangerous" [insert scary music and lighting] why are we engaging the safety on our HK54s when we transition to the uberpistolen? Because we don't know what will happen perchance?

[Sweatnbullets]

Rich, very good discussion and I appreciate the professionalism of it. I was new to TFL when it closed shop and obviously have missed a lot of good stuff. Thank you for coming back.

You both use a middle ground, that I had used for years.....safety off anytime we feel a threat is imminent, finger straight until the shoot. I've no problem with that. I just think that it's more prone to mishap with no apparent benefit.

I see the potential of a mishap in the other direction. I've heard of it as being called "caught by the safety fairy." This means that you need to shoot but you forget to disengauge the safety. I know, I know everyone is going to say that this is a training issue. Well, I have trained extensively. I have had over 120 days of training over the last 4 years and I have still been "caught by the safety fairy."

You see that I was taught much the same way as Clint is teaching you. I have found that under stress stuff happens. Although I have *almost* never missed an ID, I have missed the safety. This could be a by-product of training so much in tactical scenarios with my Glock. But the end result was the same I was dead in those scenarios.

Rich do you have an opportunity to participate in much FOF? If so this would tell you if this change is really needed. I do a good amount of airsoft training with some pretty devious guys. Our goal is to make the ID hard, to try to decieve, to try and make your training partner make a mistake. So far with no safety I have not shot one GG. I have also not been shot due do the "safety fairy."

[SapperLeader]

Its funny, but with the exception of my AR, all my other guns, I train with, I draw from the holster, flick safety off, finger off trigger, or with long guns, pick up rifle/shotgun, disengage safety, finger off trigger. Now my AR(due probally, to years in the army). I do engage and disengage the safety as I acquire targets, or move though an area. I think I need to reevaluate that, and decide how I want to go about it. I mean, yes the safety is easy to disengage, but if Im training to disengage my other safetys in a situation of immeninent threats, I think I should be the same across the board. Any thoughts?

[Rich Lucibella]

Good discussion, I agree. I've done my share of FoF but not near as much as you, I suspect. As for the "safety fairy", what can I say? Your choice is to err on the side of caution for yourself, mine caution for what's in front of my muzzle. We each need to make this decision based on our lives and circumstances.

The one thing I will contend is that the simpler our manual of arms and the more uniform across weapon systems, the less chance we have for error either way.

Gabe is suggesting that the safety come off and remain off with the drawstroke. Simple and uniform. But KSFreeman points up a classic scenario for disaster...the transition. IMHO, 'nuff said. (Sapper, that alone may answer your own question.)

I'm suggesting (as does TR and Cooper's Modern Technique) that the safety and index finger be worked together and only when we're on target....also simple and uniform. You've adopted a middle ground with interim safety on/off steps. I'm a student, not a Teacher, but I'd suspect this might be leading to the "Safety Fairy" issues.

Again, there is no right/wrong here....so long as we individually think about what we do and why we do it that way.

I think the reason so many of us had gotten into the habit of disengaging the safety in the drawstroke, regardless of threat, is due to the nature of training. When we go to the range or a class, we're repeatedly presented with shoot targets. We're placed "behind the curve" and each draw culminates in immediate shooting. It's only once we go FoF or shoot houses that we are presented with no-shoot targets....and this is generally in the more advanced courses.
Rich

[krept]

Just to reiterate... the reason why the safety is left on is because we are worried about the trigger finger and not a weapon retention issue (i.e. you get surprised by the bad guy and lose your weapon), right?

I guess the simple question would be... If you can't trust your finger to keep itself 100% off the trigger of an unsafed pistol, can you trust your thumb to disengage the safety when the SHTF right away?

With a revolver, I can see a big difference between a long 12lb DA pull and a 1911's 5lb pull. Glocks, however, are light enough and if you are spooked enough to trip an unsafed 1911's trigger, I'll bet the Glock would would go bang as well.

[krept]

Pretty cool, i asked this almost a year ago to the day.

Very similar scenario with the P7M8... do you wait until horizontal to squeeze or do you do it upon obtaining the weapon?

btw, as mentioned in the link above, I go with "Safety off, finger off" right away with both the USP and P7. If I were to obtain a 1911, I'd probably stick with it now although I previously alluded otherwise.

cheers

[Rich Lucibella]

krept-
I think most 1911's are more like 3.5 lbs. That's pretty light.

And no, I don't think the safety is a redundant device designed to protect you from your index finger alone...it's designed to protect against all manner of hobgoblin that might be sent its way.....especially if moving.

If we can agree that moving with safety disengaged is a bad thing, unless there's an active target there, then it follows that you have one of three choices:
1) Gabe's: Take the safety off on the draw and accept the risk above. I no longer agree with this at all, though it has traditionally been my method.
2) Traditional: Leave the safety on until your sights are coming on target....here the only question is whether you're willing to violate Rule II when you assess an individual's threat level. (I'm not)
3) Intermediate: Work the safety up and down and back again depending on a myriad of scenarios, the index finger moving independently.

PS: the other thread you reference seems to support my earlier point that most of us practice drawing on an already-been-identified threat. In this case, you, Gabe, Sweatn and I all end up taking the safety off at the same time....in the draw stroke. What that thread doesn't seem to envision is a multiple target scenario, such as getting to your kids at home or in school.
Rich

[fix]

What Tamara said.