How many rounds to trust a pistol?

baddarryl · December 2, 2017, 05:09 PM

Hi all. I have a used CZ75 b pre Omega that I love. I want to start carrying it and may even pick up a 75 Compact for that purpose. How many rounds before you trust a pistol to carry in general? Thanks.

Rangerrich99 · December 2, 2017, 05:14 PM

I used to feel that i had to see a pistol fire 200 rounds consecutively in one range session to trust it.

But nowadays I've come to think that 200 is a little overkill. Now if a gun will run three consecutive magazines without a hitch, using one of my preferred carry rounds, it's good to go. YMMV.

Snub357 · December 2, 2017, 05:45 PM

No issues in 200 rounds is my rule. And I've found that many issues are magazine related.

Eazyeach · December 2, 2017, 06:44 PM

1500. Just kidding. My autos I shoot about 100-200 rds of fmj. Then a couple mags of HP. If it's flawless then I trust it.
Revolvers maybe a box of fmj. Then a couple of cylinders of the good stuff to figure out my poi/poa.

Onward Allusion · December 2, 2017, 10:52 PM

300 to 500 rounds.

TXAZ · December 2, 2017, 11:50 PM

1 box and I’m good if the handgun is.

T. O'Heir · December 3, 2017, 12:20 PM

One mag's worth. If it's going to quit or the mag lips need fixing it'll do it in one mag load.
How many miles do you drive a new vehicle before you trust it? Same thing.

DM357 · December 3, 2017, 01:20 PM

Depends on the gun. Revolver, I put a box through and call it good. 1911s I put about 250-300 FMJs and 2 boxes of my choice in HP rounds. 1911s can be finicky creatures and the first 100 doesn't always give a good idea of how it'll run. For most anything else, 100-150 FMJs and a box of my choice in HP.

pete2 · December 3, 2017, 01:51 PM

200 rounds should be good to go. Usually if there is something wrong it'll show up right away.

DM357 · December 3, 2017, 01:54 PM

I don't know, I had a Canik start choking 300 rounds in. But, yeah, I know, Canik.

James K · December 3, 2017, 07:50 PM

The trouble with this question, which is always cropping up, is that there are really three reliability issues - the gun, the ammo, and the magazine(s). It is like a three-legged stool and we all know what happens with those if any of the three legs breaks while we are sitting on it.

The gun may perform perfectly with that magazine or that ammo, yet be a boat anchor with another magazine or another ammo. Or your XYZ Co. Model X might work perfectly with everything you feed it, while my identical gun is a "jam-o-matic".

There is also another issue with ammo. I know a guy who had a good (make not relevant) pistol and felt it was very reliable. Yet he practiced with the least expensive ammo he could buy while reserving the "high price spread" for carry. One day at the range, i suggested he shoot some of his expensive ammo. Finally, he did so, with great reluctance, thinking about the cost. Well, nearly every round failed; failed to fire or failed to feed or failed to extract or failed to eject. That "ultra reliable gun" was a disaster with the ammo he would have bet his life on.

Jim

Lohman446 · December 3, 2017, 08:09 PM

You just bought a new gun

Step 1: have fun with it. No major drills just shots down range. 100-200 rounds

Step 2: time to make sure your proficient and make shots on target. 100 rounds or so

Step 3: malfunction drills induced with snap caps. At least a few magazines 50-100 rounds

Step 4: defensive ammo practice. With the ammo you intend to carry at least two of each magazine you intend to carry. For a G19 with three magazines this is 90 rounds. These should be failure free

Repeat each step as desired or needed.

James K · December 3, 2017, 08:25 PM

That is a good summary, but assumes that the shooter is already experienced with a handgun of the general type as his new gun. Maybe i am just slow in learning, but I seem to recall that it took a lot more than 100 rounds to become proficient enough with a handgun to feel that I could defend myself or others without being a "menace to society." Of course I know some folks who have carry licenses (or even badges) who have never fired the gun they carry, or even any gun. I have cringed at hearing nonsense like "of course I can shoot, I saw a Western movie last week" or "shooting is instinctive, anyone can do it" or "I can hit a quarter at 200 yards fast draw, every shot."

Sure.

Jim

Lohman446 · December 3, 2017, 08:40 PM

Yeah. I didn't clarify that the round counts were on the minimal side and each step should be repeated or lengthened until proficiency was found.

Bozz10mm · December 3, 2017, 09:19 PM

200 rounds without a malfunction.

Koda94 · December 3, 2017, 10:00 PM

200 rds, then 1 box of your preferred premium ammo for the gun and up to 2 mags for that session. Repeat session for additional mags you want to add to your rotation.

K_Mac · December 3, 2017, 11:53 PM

How many rounds through a pistol before I'm confident that it will go bang every time, and how much practice and training is needed to be confident and proficient carrying a gun are two different things.

I think a couple of hundred rounds is plenty to test for reliability, as long as all the magazines carried are used with the ammo being carried. I also think some carry ammo should be shot regularly to ensure everything is functioning properly, including me! Proficiency for guys like me is an ongoing process that has taken many thousands of rounds. Of course your millage may vary.

baddarryl · December 4, 2017, 12:07 AM

OP Here: Thanks everyone for your input.

Quote:

That is a good summary, but assumes that the shooter is already experienced with a handgun of the general type as his new gun. Maybe i am just slow in learning, but I seem to recall that it took a lot more than 100 rounds to become proficient enough with a handgun to feel that I could defend myself or others without being a "menace to society." Of course I know some folks who have carry licenses (or even badges) who have never fired the gun they carry, or even any gun. I have cringed at hearing nonsense like "of course I can shoot, I saw a Western movie last week" or "shooting is instinctive, anyone can do it" or "I can hit a quarter at 200 yards fast draw, every shot."

That brings up a good point. I have carried for about 7 years, compete some and have taken some training classes. I am no pro, but feel confident in my skills and preparation, but there is always a need for more.

K_Mac · December 4, 2017, 12:51 AM

I really would enjoy seeing that guy shoot the quarter. That is pretty fair shooting!

Prndll · December 4, 2017, 09:14 AM

I wouldn't really base any kind of trust on round counts necessarily. Sending hundreds of rounds down range without a malfunction isn't going to mean much if the intended target can't be hit. I've seen plenty of cars that will startup and run perfectly but couldn't be trusted to bring a pregnant woman to a hospital.

Complete confidence in your ability to adequately, accurately, and wisely put down a would-be attacker or end a life threatening situation is paramount. Trust is earned. I would recommend that whatever pistol you carry be one that you can be completely confident with. If there is any doubt in your mind, then it shouldn't be carried. Know your side arm like the back of your hand. Through and through. Know what it can do and what it can't.

Don P · December 4, 2017, 09:38 AM

Couple of magazines and you're good to go, in my opinion. The firearm can fail at any time. As just for argument, you shoot 500 rounds. All is good. The next time out with the gun second shot jam/failure. you just never know

SonOfScubaDiver · December 4, 2017, 09:39 AM

Just buy a Glock and feed it whatever you want! They work no matter what!

Ok, ok. I'm just havin' some fun. As far as trusting the gun to function properly, a couple hundred rounds of FMJ, and a box of HP. As far as trusting my ability to shoot it accurately--well, that varies. I thought I was becoming a fairly decent shooter until I bought my SP101 and realized that shooting it was different than shooting my semi-autos.

doofus47 · December 5, 2017, 12:02 PM

I like to have a pistol that is reliable with self-defense ammo and 2 magazines that are also well-tested.

I start off with 100 rounds of fmj to test basic functionality.
I'm somewhere around 50 rounds for my favorite SD rounds (x 2 mags). That's 5 magazine changes. If I'm only carrying 2 magazines, I feel pretty sure that I'm good to go for what I'm carrying.

I used to ask my pistols to do "X" amount of range time, but during the last ammo crunch, I re-considered what I'm actually carrying and what reliability looks like with that load.

5whiskey · December 6, 2017, 05:37 PM

If the question is how many rounds before I trust the reliability of the pistol (as I understand it to be), I would say about 100 rounds or so to put it through the paces. Then 2-3 mags of preferred carry ammo. If it's flawless during this period I'm good with it as a reliable carry weapon.

If I was not experienced and proficient with the platform, obviously, I would likely practice with a little more than 100 rounds first.

kozak6 · December 6, 2017, 10:50 PM

A couple hundred rounds should be fine. It stings to shoot that much carry ammo, so I cheat and shoot much less of that. Carry ammo really needs to be tested, though, as some pistols don't like hollowpoints.

It's also important to make sure your pistol functions with all of your carry magzines. Unreliable magazines are uncommon, but they are real. It's also possible for magazines to become dirty over time, which can impair function.

December 2, 2017, 05:09 PM	#1
baddarryl Senior Member Join Date: March 29, 2011 Location: Cape Fear! Posts: 1,683	How many rounds to trust a pistol? Hi all. I have a used CZ75 b pre Omega that I love. I want to start carrying it and may even pick up a 75 Compact for that purpose. How many rounds before you trust a pistol to carry in general? Thanks.

December 2, 2017, 05:45 PM	#3
Snub357 Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2002 Posts: 484	No issues in 200 rounds is my rule. And I've found that many issues are magazine related. __________________ [Insert prattle here]

December 2, 2017, 10:52 PM	#5
Onward Allusion Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2009 Location: Back in a Non-Free State Posts: 3,133	300 to 500 rounds. __________________ Simple as ABC . . . Always Be Carrying

December 2, 2017, 11:50 PM	#6
TXAZ Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2010 Location: McMurdo Sound Texas Posts: 4,322	1 box and I’m good if the handgun is. __________________ Cave illos in guns et backhoes

December 3, 2017, 12:20 PM	#7
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	One mag's worth. If it's going to quit or the mag lips need fixing it'll do it in one mag load. How many miles do you drive a new vehicle before you trust it? Same thing. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

December 2, 2017, 05:14 PM	#2
Rangerrich99 Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2014 Location: Kinda near Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,254	I used to feel that i had to see a pistol fire 200 rounds consecutively in one range session to trust it. But nowadays I've come to think that 200 is a little overkill. Now if a gun will run three consecutive magazines without a hitch, using one of my preferred carry rounds, it's good to go. YMMV.

December 2, 2017, 06:44 PM	#4
Eazyeach Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2014 Posts: 706	1500. Just kidding. My autos I shoot about 100-200 rds of fmj. Then a couple mags of HP. If it's flawless then I trust it. Revolvers maybe a box of fmj. Then a couple of cylinders of the good stuff to figure out my poi/poa.

December 3, 2017, 01:20 PM	#8
DM357 Member Join Date: November 30, 2017 Posts: 44	Depends on the gun. Revolver, I put a box through and call it good. 1911s I put about 250-300 FMJs and 2 boxes of my choice in HP rounds. 1911s can be finicky creatures and the first 100 doesn't always give a good idea of how it'll run. For most anything else, 100-150 FMJs and a box of my choice in HP.

December 3, 2017, 01:51 PM	#9
pete2 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 2,566	200 rounds should be good to go. Usually if there is something wrong it'll show up right away.

December 3, 2017, 01:54 PM	#10
DM357 Member Join Date: November 30, 2017 Posts: 44	I don't know, I had a Canik start choking 300 rounds in. But, yeah, I know, Canik.

December 3, 2017, 07:50 PM	#11
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The trouble with this question, which is always cropping up, is that there are really three reliability issues - the gun, the ammo, and the magazine(s). It is like a three-legged stool and we all know what happens with those if any of the three legs breaks while we are sitting on it. The gun may perform perfectly with that magazine or that ammo, yet be a boat anchor with another magazine or another ammo. Or your XYZ Co. Model X might work perfectly with everything you feed it, while my identical gun is a "jam-o-matic". There is also another issue with ammo. I know a guy who had a good (make not relevant) pistol and felt it was very reliable. Yet he practiced with the least expensive ammo he could buy while reserving the "high price spread" for carry. One day at the range, i suggested he shoot some of his expensive ammo. Finally, he did so, with great reluctance, thinking about the cost. Well, nearly every round failed; failed to fire or failed to feed or failed to extract or failed to eject. That "ultra reliable gun" was a disaster with the ammo he would have bet his life on. Jim

December 3, 2017, 08:09 PM	#12
Lohman446 Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2016 Posts: 2,192	You just bought a new gun Step 1: have fun with it. No major drills just shots down range. 100-200 rounds Step 2: time to make sure your proficient and make shots on target. 100 rounds or so Step 3: malfunction drills induced with snap caps. At least a few magazines 50-100 rounds Step 4: defensive ammo practice. With the ammo you intend to carry at least two of each magazine you intend to carry. For a G19 with three magazines this is 90 rounds. These should be failure free Repeat each step as desired or needed.

December 3, 2017, 08:25 PM	#13
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	That is a good summary, but assumes that the shooter is already experienced with a handgun of the general type as his new gun. Maybe i am just slow in learning, but I seem to recall that it took a lot more than 100 rounds to become proficient enough with a handgun to feel that I could defend myself or others without being a "menace to society." Of course I know some folks who have carry licenses (or even badges) who have never fired the gun they carry, or even any gun. I have cringed at hearing nonsense like "of course I can shoot, I saw a Western movie last week" or "shooting is instinctive, anyone can do it" or "I can hit a quarter at 200 yards fast draw, every shot." Sure. Jim

December 3, 2017, 08:40 PM	#14
Lohman446 Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2016 Posts: 2,192	Yeah. I didn't clarify that the round counts were on the minimal side and each step should be repeated or lengthened until proficiency was found.

December 3, 2017, 09:19 PM	#15
Bozz10mm Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 2013 Location: Central Texas Posts: 287	200 rounds without a malfunction.

December 3, 2017, 10:00 PM	#16
Koda94 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2012 Location: Cascadia Posts: 1,294	200 rds, then 1 box of your preferred premium ammo for the gun and up to 2 mags for that session. Repeat session for additional mags you want to add to your rotation. __________________ lightweight, cheap, strong... pick 2

December 3, 2017, 11:53 PM	#17
K_Mac Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2010 Posts: 1,850	How many rounds through a pistol before I'm confident that it will go bang every time, and how much practice and training is needed to be confident and proficient carrying a gun are two different things. I think a couple of hundred rounds is plenty to test for reliability, as long as all the magazines carried are used with the ammo being carried. I also think some carry ammo should be shot regularly to ensure everything is functioning properly, including me! Proficiency for guys like me is an ongoing process that has taken many thousands of rounds. Of course your millage may vary. __________________ "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Benjamin Franklin

December 4, 2017, 12:51 AM	#19
K_Mac Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2010 Posts: 1,850	I really would enjoy seeing that guy shoot the quarter. That is pretty fair shooting! __________________ "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Benjamin Franklin

December 4, 2017, 09:14 AM	#20
Prndll Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2017 Location: Texas Posts: 123	I wouldn't really base any kind of trust on round counts necessarily. Sending hundreds of rounds down range without a malfunction isn't going to mean much if the intended target can't be hit. I've seen plenty of cars that will startup and run perfectly but couldn't be trusted to bring a pregnant woman to a hospital. Complete confidence in your ability to adequately, accurately, and wisely put down a would-be attacker or end a life threatening situation is paramount. Trust is earned. I would recommend that whatever pistol you carry be one that you can be completely confident with. If there is any doubt in your mind, then it shouldn't be carried. Know your side arm like the back of your hand. Through and through. Know what it can do and what it can't.

December 4, 2017, 09:38 AM	#21
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,187	Couple of magazines and you're good to go, in my opinion. The firearm can fail at any time. As just for argument, you shoot 500 rounds. All is good. The next time out with the gun second shot jam/failure. you just never know __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.*

December 4, 2017, 09:39 AM	#22
SonOfScubaDiver Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2017 Posts: 391	Just buy a Glock and feed it whatever you want! They work no matter what! Ok, ok. I'm just havin' some fun. As far as trusting the gun to function properly, a couple hundred rounds of FMJ, and a box of HP. As far as trusting my ability to shoot it accurately--well, that varies. I thought I was becoming a fairly decent shooter until I bought my SP101 and realized that shooting it was different than shooting my semi-autos.

December 5, 2017, 12:02 PM	#23
doofus47 Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2010 Location: live in a in a house when i'm not in a tent Posts: 2,483	I like to have a pistol that is reliable with self-defense ammo and 2 magazines that are also well-tested. I start off with 100 rounds of fmj to test basic functionality. I'm somewhere around 50 rounds for my favorite SD rounds (x 2 mags). That's 5 magazine changes. If I'm only carrying 2 magazines, I feel pretty sure that I'm good to go for what I'm carrying. I used to ask my pistols to do "X" amount of range time, but during the last ammo crunch, I re-considered what I'm actually carrying and what reliability looks like with that load. __________________ I'm right about the metric system 3/4 of the time.

December 6, 2017, 05:37 PM	#24
5whiskey Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 2005 Location: US Posts: 3,657	If the question is how many rounds before I trust the reliability of the pistol (as I understand it to be), I would say about 100 rounds or so to put it through the paces. Then 2-3 mags of preferred carry ammo. If it's flawless during this period I'm good with it as a reliable carry weapon. If I was not experienced and proficient with the platform, obviously, I would likely practice with a little more than 100 rounds first.

December 6, 2017, 10:50 PM	#25
kozak6 Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2005 Location: AZ Posts: 3,113	A couple hundred rounds should be fine. It stings to shoot that much carry ammo, so I cheat and shoot much less of that. Carry ammo really needs to be tested, though, as some pistols don't like hollowpoints. It's also important to make sure your pistol functions with all of your carry magzines. Unreliable magazines are uncommon, but they are real. It's also possible for magazines to become dirty over time, which can impair function.