why is black powder measured by volume?

troy_mclure · May 5, 2010, 12:47 AM

why is black powder measured by volume instead of weight?

zippy13 · May 5, 2010, 01:08 AM

Our forefathers had powder horns and volumetric measures, they didn't carry around powder scales. If you told someone to load three drams of powder, he knew exactly what volume you meant. With the transition to smokeless powder and fixed cartridges, uniformity in charges became more critical. Charging the new ammo by weight was more accurate than by volume. And, standard weights and measures had become more common during the industrial revolution.

Why are US kitchen recipes in volume measures (cups and tea spoons) and by weight in Europe?

Hawg · May 5, 2010, 04:40 AM

Actually you can measure real bp by weight because it's bp they based the smokeless weights on but you can't weigh subs the same way because they're lighter.

B.L.E. · May 5, 2010, 05:58 AM

Black powder can be weighed of measured volumetrically because muzzleloading powder measures are calibrated to black powder.

If Pyrodex listed recommended charges by weight, you would either have to calibrate your powder measure with a scale or you would have to buy a Pyrodex specific powder measure because Pyrodex is less dense than black powder.

So to make it simple, Pyrodex and other subs list charges by volume.

For cartridge reloading, a lot of the black powder substitutes actually do give recommended charges by weight instead of volume and the loading data will state "grains of powder by weight".

ClemBert · May 5, 2010, 08:03 AM

As others have said you CAN measure BP by weight since theoretically 40 grains by volume from your powder measure should weigh 40 grains. When loading cartridges I weigh my charges of BP. More specifically, if I want 40 grains of BP I calibrate my Lee powder measure to throw 40 grains of BP by weight and verify it on a scale. Obviously, the Lee powder measure isn't weighing the powder but rather is volumetrically throwing the powder.

Delmar · May 5, 2010, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawg Haggen

Actually you can measure real bp by weight because it's bp they based the smokeless weights on but you can't weigh subs the same way because they're lighter.
______

That is probably the clearest most concise answer to that question that I have seen.

wogpotter · May 5, 2010, 04:10 PM

Apart from the loads dispensed while setting up the powder meter even modern smokeless loads are actually thrown by volume.

(Unless you weigh every charge individually individually that is)

Doc Hoy · May 5, 2010, 04:16 PM

I wonder how many shooters in the 1820s through 1840s measured their powder by the handful?

FL-Flinter · May 5, 2010, 08:00 PM

Black powder is hygroscopic and will readily suck moisture from the air making for radical variations in mass. The components themselves will also cause radical variations in mass from lot to lot. Because the mass is highly variable, black powder should only be measured by VOLUME (exceptions made for very experienced persons primarily in the realm of BPCR)

May 5, 2010, 12:47 AM	#1
troy_mclure Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2008 Location: gulf of mexico Posts: 2,716	why is black powder measured by volume? why is black powder measured by volume instead of weight? __________________ There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

May 5, 2010, 04:16 PM	#8
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Guys I wonder how many shooters in the 1820s through 1840s measured their powder by the handful? __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

May 5, 2010, 08:00 PM	#9
FL-Flinter Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2007 Location: West Central Florida Posts: 207	Black powder is hygroscopic and will readily suck moisture from the air making for radical variations in mass. The components themselves will also cause radical variations in mass from lot to lot. Because the mass is highly variable, black powder should only be measured by VOLUME (exceptions made for very experienced persons primarily in the realm of BPCR) __________________ "Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything." Harry S. Truman [email protected]

May 5, 2010, 01:08 AM	#2
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	Our forefathers had powder horns and volumetric measures, they didn't carry around powder scales. If you told someone to load three drams of powder, he knew exactly what volume you meant. With the transition to smokeless powder and fixed cartridges, uniformity in charges became more critical. Charging the new ammo by weight was more accurate than by volume. And, standard weights and measures had become more common during the industrial revolution. Why are US kitchen recipes in volume measures (cups and tea spoons) and by weight in Europe?

May 5, 2010, 04:40 AM	#3
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	Actually you can measure real bp by weight because it's bp they based the smokeless weights on but you can't weigh subs the same way because they're lighter.

May 5, 2010, 05:58 AM	#4
B.L.E. Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2008 Location: Somewhere on the Southern shore of Lake Travis, TX Posts: 2,603	Black powder can be weighed of measured volumetrically because muzzleloading powder measures are calibrated to black powder. If Pyrodex listed recommended charges by weight, you would either have to calibrate your powder measure with a scale or you would have to buy a Pyrodex specific powder measure because Pyrodex is less dense than black powder. So to make it simple, Pyrodex and other subs list charges by volume. For cartridge reloading, a lot of the black powder substitutes actually do give recommended charges by weight instead of volume and the loading data will state "grains of powder by weight".

May 5, 2010, 08:03 AM	#5
ClemBert Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2009 Location: Orlando Posts: 936	As others have said you CAN measure BP by weight since theoretically 40 grains by volume from your powder measure should weigh 40 grains. When loading cartridges I weigh my charges of BP. More specifically, if I want 40 grains of BP I calibrate my Lee powder measure to throw 40 grains of BP by weight and verify it on a scale. Obviously, the Lee powder measure isn't weighing the powder but rather is volumetrically throwing the powder.

May 5, 2010, 04:10 PM	#7
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	Apart from the loads dispensed while setting up the powder meter even modern smokeless loads are actually thrown by volume. (Unless you weigh every charge individually individually that is)