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Old January 4, 2018, 03:51 PM   #76
briandg
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Aguila, interpret it in any way you choose. This is how it is written


Quote:
Congress shall make no law
It clearly states that the government is forbidden to abridge these rights. It also says that this set of amendments is only what they knew about at the time, that other natural rights exist, and that the government cannot deny the people these rights just because it wasn't listed in the original documents.
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Old January 4, 2018, 04:07 PM   #77
zukiphile
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Brian, the COTUS does both.

When people refer to enumerated powers, they are referring to powers enumerated in the COTUS. When someone asks why the federal government has the power to tariff imported goods, one can point to the sentence that grants it that power.

The other way those powers are limited are by describing rights states and individuals hold against the federal government, describing acts in which the federal government may not constitutionally engage.
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Old January 4, 2018, 04:18 PM   #78
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Quote:
The Bill of Rights doesn't "deny" anything to anyone, it simply helps to refine the limitations on the powers granted to the government by the Constitution.
Congress shall make no law...
shall not be infringed...
No person shall...
No warrant shall be issued...

These, and the rest, sound very much like denial to me. Things the Government shall not do. How well we have held to those standards is a separate matter.

The real power of the 2nd Amendment is to serve as a "fleet in being", not a fleet in action. Because we could, if the need was great enough, take up arms to defend ourselves, it is a strong guarantee that we won't have to.

The wolf has to be desperately hungry to bite a porcupine.
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Old January 4, 2018, 04:38 PM   #79
briandg
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Zuni, average is a range, not a number. Average range is between 25-75%. High average starts at 76. Low avr is 9-24,below 9, it is considered 'borderline' or deficient most people would look at anyone below 15 or so and just say 'stupid'.

It's been a long time since I worked with this testing and reporting and I had a hole cut into my brain since then. Please forgive me, 75 percent are average range or below, 'stupid' isn't really defined, but fifteen or so is a good definition.
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Old January 4, 2018, 06:18 PM   #80
zukiphile
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Quote:
One study found that 49% of all people are below average.
Quote:
Originally Posted by briandg
Zuni, average is a range, not a number.
There may be a less than average amount of humor in my joke.
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Old January 4, 2018, 07:19 PM   #81
Aguila Blanca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zukiphile
One study found that 49% of all people are below average.
What do you call the dummy who graduates last in his class at medical school?

"Doctor."
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Old January 4, 2018, 07:41 PM   #82
TXAZ
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“Dummy” is all relative: There are more Genius IQ kids in India and China than we have kids. Does that put all out kids in the lower 49%?

(Talk about a rabbit trail from the Second)
HOWEVER, it’s pretty clear the creators of the Bill of Rights were way the heck up in the top decade.
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Old January 4, 2018, 07:47 PM   #83
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Briandg I said earlier that I understood your cynicism. After rereading this thread though, I have decided I do not understand your contempt for the American people. We may not meet your standards, and heaven knows we have plenty of issues, but I do not believe for a second that we are incapable of defending our constitution and our liberty if required to do so.

The notion that we are lazy, incompetent and stupid is often the basis for elite members of government to justify tyrannical intrusion into the lives of regular folk. They are just taking care of us for our own good.

Yes, turn off the power for a couple of days and things will get ugly. The consequences of a breakdown the rule of law is unimaginable, but that is not an argument for disarming law-abiding citizens. It is certainly not an argument supporting the idea that we can't defend our nation from tyranny.

The Founding Fathers understood the nature of government. They knew that the 2A was necessary to a free nation. That truth, and human nature hasn't changed. Every passing generation (I am part of this group) thinks the world has gone to hell and probably unprepared and unwilling to meet the challenges of the future. Underestimating the American people's willingness to pick up arms to defend our way of life, whether the threat is from within or without is dangerous. Dismissing the 2A as unimportant to this end is foolish.
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Old January 4, 2018, 07:52 PM   #84
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Good place to call this one!
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