Grip carvings on old gun

tba · December 8, 2017, 08:45 PM

Hey everyone,

Wanted to come on here and post something g that has been puzzling me for a long time. A while back a family member past away and I inherited a gun from her. It was crammed in the back of an old safe and until then I had never seen it. It was an old 1908 vest pocket. Serial numbers date it to 1912.

I was real excited about this find and could tell it hadn't been shot in decades so I broke it down and cleaned it really good. Bought a ' spring kit and got it back in good condition right away.

The thing that puzzled me about it though was this, when I unscrewed the little plastic grips and got them unstuck from the gun I noticed the back of each on had a rune carved into it. I searched all over to see if anyone had encountered this before and no luck.

Does anyone know what these carvings mean?

dahermit · December 8, 2017, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Does anyone know what these carvings mean?

Not without a picture, no.

Kreyzhorse · December 8, 2017, 08:58 PM

I don't recall any on the inside mine. Date and or manufacturer markings?

Great gun by the way. Mine is a 1919 and while I don't shoot it much, it is fun to shoot and accurate enough.

Smoke & Recoil · December 9, 2017, 08:08 PM

Incase anyone is interested...

http://www.jnjonlineauction.com/deta...RY-IVORY-GRIPS

Smoke & Recoil · December 14, 2017, 07:39 PM

Last night of action, bid high, bid fast...
WOW !
http://www.jnjonlineauction.com/deta...RY-IVORY-GRIPS

tba · December 18, 2017, 09:20 PM

I tried to upload a pic but its too big

tba · December 18, 2017, 09:41 PM

20171218_204002.jpg

BillM · December 18, 2017, 10:02 PM

Interesting. It could be a rune, but it sure looks like the Alchemy symbol for Sulphur.

No idea why it would be on the inside of a grip.

Bill DeShivs · December 18, 2017, 10:06 PM

"CH"

Archie · December 19, 2017, 05:26 PM

First impression is they are markers to prove ownership if the gun is stolen. They could also be a magic charm, but I doubt it.

tba · December 19, 2017, 07:34 PM

Good answer. What kind of person would choose that symbol?

BillM · December 21, 2017, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Good answer. What kind of person would choose that symbol?

Someone looking for a simple but unusual mark to identify their property? Whether
it is CH or the Alchemy symbol for Sulphur/Brimstone/Soul it's all straight lines and easy to scratch in. Heck--maybe they were cattle people and this is their brand?

tba · December 21, 2017, 01:22 PM

Here is the other grip

tba · December 21, 2017, 01:29 PM

Could be. My relatives family were grain farmers for the most part. Her father was a free mason and primarily Irish. I couldn't imagine they were well versed in runes but you could be on to something. Bill did make me notice that it could be a crude etching of the initials CH and he also mentioned that it could have been a factory marking from colt match those grips to the gun.

briandg · December 21, 2017, 07:39 PM

This has me stumped, it looks as if each was carved with different tools. The first appears to have been done with a standard V cut veining tool, the other one not so much. it's odd enough that the thing is there and hidden, but the idea that this could be a colt marking seems totally ridiculous. Are you certain that they are the original grips?

The idea that it was some sort of mojo or talisman mark is not as ridiculous as it sounds.

1908 was not the enlightened and educated period that we have now, and even now we believe in aliens, chemtrails, horoscopes, and other things too ridiculous to talk about.

I have spent a bit of time looking through folklore books. There were dozens of hexes to help hunting and other shooting; one of the hunting aids required that the hunting ammo be stored inside a skull, a human skull if that's the way you rolled.

For the other side of the story, an entry in one of them stated that a lake a few hundred miles north of here was where campbells got the turtles for their turtle soup. Lots of money poured into the area from the turtle harvest.

Since campbells only made "mock turtle" soup with tripe and beef I doubt the veracity.

People are willing to believe almost anything, or be convinced, at least.

briandg · December 21, 2017, 07:44 PM

btw, I admire that you actually used the word "rune" to describe something that is 100% rune like, when every other person on the planet generically lumps any weird symbol into that description.

tba · December 21, 2017, 08:53 PM

I have actually researched this quite a bit. I noticed what you said, the marks are different from each other in size and general shape of the etching. Like it was done in the field with a pen knife and the other at a kitchen table or something with another tool. The gun's serial number says its a 1912 model and lacks the magazine safety as such. The rune is definitely the rune for sulphur as others have noted. I first thought it was meant as some superstition that a shot from this gun was meant to send someone to hell or something but the more I research the more confusing it gets.

As for the grips, they are standard stock grips for that period and model and when I pulled them loose they looked like I was the first to pull them apart since the person who inscribed them. As stated before, I look down the entire piece clean and resprung them and everything was caked burned powder and those grips acted like they were glued to the frame. I would safely assume no one had ever thought to ever take it down and give it much care, let alone change a grip out if it had broke or something.

Goatwhiskers · December 22, 2017, 09:23 AM

That symbol was my Dad's registered livestock brand, also mine when I had cattle. No, the pistol is not mine. GW

tba · December 22, 2017, 01:42 PM

Interesting, what was his connection to that symbol? Why did he choose it you think?

T. O'Heir · December 27, 2017, 02:38 PM

Whatever it is, it was done by hand. Isn't a Norse or Germanic rune either. Runes are an alphabet.
"...resprung them..." Probably no need for that. Springs do not lose temper by getting old or being compressed.
"...the rune for sulphur..." No such thing. The chemical symbol for sulphur is 'S'. It is the alchemical (as in Alchemy. The nonsense of trying to magically turn base metals into gold) symbol for sulphur and Spirit.

December 8, 2017, 08:45 PM	#1
tba Junior Member Join Date: June 27, 2012 Posts: 8	Grip carvings on old gun Hey everyone, Wanted to come on here and post something g that has been puzzling me for a long time. A while back a family member past away and I inherited a gun from her. It was crammed in the back of an old safe and until then I had never seen it. It was an old 1908 vest pocket. Serial numbers date it to 1912. I was real excited about this find and could tell it hadn't been shot in decades so I broke it down and cleaned it really good. Bought a ' spring kit and got it back in good condition right away. The thing that puzzled me about it though was this, when I unscrewed the little plastic grips and got them unstuck from the gun I noticed the back of each on had a rune carved into it. I searched all over to see if anyone had encountered this before and no luck. Does anyone know what these carvings mean?

December 8, 2017, 08:58 PM	#3
Kreyzhorse Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2006 Location: NKY Posts: 12,463	I don't recall any on the inside mine. Date and or manufacturer markings? Great gun by the way. Mine is a 1919 and while I don't shoot it much, it is fun to shoot and accurate enough. __________________ "He who laughs last, laughs dead." Homer Simpson

December 9, 2017, 08:08 PM	#4
Smoke & Recoil Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: East shore of Lake Michigan. Posts: 714	Incase anyone is interested... http://www.jnjonlineauction.com/deta...RY-IVORY-GRIPS __________________ Sent from my Tandy 1000

December 14, 2017, 07:39 PM	#5
Smoke & Recoil Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: East shore of Lake Michigan. Posts: 714	Last night of action, bid high, bid fast... WOW ! http://www.jnjonlineauction.com/deta...RY-IVORY-GRIPS __________________ Sent from my Tandy 1000

December 18, 2017, 10:06 PM	#9
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,981	"CH" __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

December 18, 2017, 09:20 PM	#6
tba Junior Member Join Date: June 27, 2012 Posts: 8	I tried to upload a pic but its too big

December 18, 2017, 09:41 PM	#7
tba Junior Member Join Date: June 27, 2012 Posts: 8	20171218_204002.jpg

December 18, 2017, 10:02 PM	#8
BillM Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2009 Location: Amity Oregon Posts: 791	Interesting. It could be a rune, but it sure looks like the Alchemy symbol for Sulphur. No idea why it would be on the inside of a grip.

December 19, 2017, 05:26 PM	#10
Archie Senior Member Join Date: May 26, 2000 Location: Hastings, Nebrasksa - the Hear Posts: 2,209	First impression is they are markers to prove ownership if the gun is stolen. They could also be a magic charm, but I doubt it. __________________ There ain't no free lunch, except Jesus. Archie Check out updated journal at http://oldmanmontgomery.wordpress.com/

December 19, 2017, 07:34 PM	#11
tba Junior Member Join Date: June 27, 2012 Posts: 8	Good answer. What kind of person would choose that symbol?

December 21, 2017, 01:29 PM	#14
tba Junior Member Join Date: June 27, 2012 Posts: 8	Could be. My relatives family were grain farmers for the most part. Her father was a free mason and primarily Irish. I couldn't imagine they were well versed in runes but you could be on to something. Bill did make me notice that it could be a crude etching of the initials CH and he also mentioned that it could have been a factory marking from colt match those grips to the gun.

December 21, 2017, 07:39 PM	#15
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	This has me stumped, it looks as if each was carved with different tools. The first appears to have been done with a standard V cut veining tool, the other one not so much. it's odd enough that the thing is there and hidden, but the idea that this could be a colt marking seems totally ridiculous. Are you certain that they are the original grips? The idea that it was some sort of mojo or talisman mark is not as ridiculous as it sounds. 1908 was not the enlightened and educated period that we have now, and even now we believe in aliens, chemtrails, horoscopes, and other things too ridiculous to talk about. I have spent a bit of time looking through folklore books. There were dozens of hexes to help hunting and other shooting; one of the hunting aids required that the hunting ammo be stored inside a skull, a human skull if that's the way you rolled. For the other side of the story, an entry in one of them stated that a lake a few hundred miles north of here was where campbells got the turtles for their turtle soup. Lots of money poured into the area from the turtle harvest. Since campbells only made "mock turtle" soup with tripe and beef I doubt the veracity. People are willing to believe almost anything, or be convinced, at least. __________________ None.

December 21, 2017, 07:44 PM	#16
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	btw, I admire that you actually used the word "rune" to describe something that is 100% rune like, when every other person on the planet generically lumps any weird symbol into that description. __________________ None.

December 21, 2017, 08:53 PM	#17
tba Junior Member Join Date: June 27, 2012 Posts: 8	I have actually researched this quite a bit. I noticed what you said, the marks are different from each other in size and general shape of the etching. Like it was done in the field with a pen knife and the other at a kitchen table or something with another tool. The gun's serial number says its a 1912 model and lacks the magazine safety as such. The rune is definitely the rune for sulphur as others have noted. I first thought it was meant as some superstition that a shot from this gun was meant to send someone to hell or something but the more I research the more confusing it gets. As for the grips, they are standard stock grips for that period and model and when I pulled them loose they looked like I was the first to pull them apart since the person who inscribed them. As stated before, I look down the entire piece clean and resprung them and everything was caked burned powder and those grips acted like they were glued to the frame. I would safely assume no one had ever thought to ever take it down and give it much care, let alone change a grip out if it had broke or something.

December 22, 2017, 09:23 AM	#18
Goatwhiskers Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2009 Location: Batchelor, La. Posts: 579	That symbol was my Dad's registered livestock brand, also mine when I had cattle. No, the pistol is not mine. GW

December 22, 2017, 01:42 PM	#19
tba Junior Member Join Date: June 27, 2012 Posts: 8	Interesting, what was his connection to that symbol? Why did he choose it you think?

December 27, 2017, 02:38 PM	#20
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Whatever it is, it was done by hand. Isn't a Norse or Germanic rune either. Runes are an alphabet. "...resprung them..." Probably no need for that. Springs do not lose temper by getting old or being compressed. "...the rune for sulphur..." No such thing. The chemical symbol for sulphur is 'S'. It is the alchemical (as in Alchemy. The nonsense of trying to magically turn base metals into gold) symbol for sulphur and Spirit. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!