Loading for Powder Coated

thumbs47 · June 4, 2016, 04:52 PM

How are you guys loading for PC bullets? Are you using lead or plated data? Thanks

chris in va · June 4, 2016, 06:04 PM

I use lead data. The coating isn't thick enough to use heavy plated or jacketed data.

thumbs47 · June 4, 2016, 06:28 PM

Thanks. That's what I have always done just wondering if I could use the plated data also. I'll just stick with the lead.

Don P · June 4, 2016, 06:37 PM

LEAD DATA ONLY!!!!!!!

The hi-tek coating is not a substitute for plating.

Rangerrich99 · June 4, 2016, 06:39 PM

Lead.

oldpapps · June 4, 2016, 07:23 PM

I do the 'Shake-en-bake' coating method.

Granted I only coat bullets that will be used at velocities that at at or over the 'leading' range.

I load my cast 130 grain .311 powder coated into .308 Win cases and push them to over 2800 FPS out of a M1A with a 22 inch barrel using 748 powder. I don't remember seeing cast loading data to that level. Oh, they do start getting shotgun accuracy as the velocity goes up.

Same bullets only in 30.06 cases and fired in a 1903-A3 at velocities around 2550 FPS are as accurate as any jacketed bullet. Powder used for these is 2400.

These are only 'also' loaded with my primary use in .300 Blackout.

I don't know just what the standards are, just what I have been doing.

Load with care,

OSOK

thumbs47 · June 4, 2016, 08:31 PM

Thanks guys. I'll stick with the lead. The loads work fine as they are. Just considering options. No problem with staying with lead data. Thanks

chris in va · June 4, 2016, 09:27 PM

Quote:

I load my cast 130 grain .311 powder coated into .308 Win cases and push them to over 2800 FPS out of a M1A

Whoa, check your gas port.

I tried shooting some gas checked powdercoated through my Garand at 2000fps and the port clogged right up. I won't even push them past 1700 in my bolt gun.

dahermit · June 5, 2016, 08:05 AM

Quote:

LEAD DATA ONLY!!!!!!! The hi-tek coating is not a substitute for plating.

FYI, in case you did not know..."hi-tek" and "powder coating" are listed at two completely different things over at Cast Lead Bullet ("Boolets"), site.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/
The extensive work developing the process for powder coating cast lead bullets other there, has many references to using cast bullet loading data with powder coated bullets, not jacketed bullet data.

SARuger · June 5, 2016, 08:11 AM

I use data from the Lyman Cast Bullet handbook.

I'm loading coated cast bullets in the following calibers now; 9mm, .38spcl, .357mag, 30-30

thumbs47 · June 5, 2016, 08:28 AM

dahermit

Can you give a specific link? I was looking over there but couldn't find data for pc cast. Very well may have just skipped over without seeing but I didn't see it.

thanks

dahermit · June 6, 2016, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Can you give a specific link? I was looking over there but couldn't find data for pc cast. Very well may have just skipped over without seeing but I didn't see it.

They don't list the actual data for powder coated loads, but you will find several threads that discuss using cast lead data for powder coated bullets here:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/foru...d-Alternatives

snuffy · June 6, 2016, 09:23 AM

Again the confusion about ""powder coated"" lead BOOLITS rears it's ugly head! The hi-tek coated boolits should not even be called powder coated. But that's what Missouri bullets (MBC) and other brands have been using to coat their cast projectiles, then calling it "powder coating".

To me powder coating is just that, powdered paint coating a boolit with either an electrostatic gun or tumble coating in a bowl, then heat curing.

Quote:

Whoa, check your gas port.

Chris, if you had port clogging, I suspect your powder coating was not cured enough. Especially since you had them gas checked. Folks over at cast boolits . com have been shooting traditionally lubed AND gas checked lead boolits in gas guns for years with no problems related to clogged gas ports. Even the .223 AR platforms!

9x45 · June 6, 2016, 10:13 AM

I've running Bayou 125 gr TC for both 9mm and .357SIG, which are HiTek coated, not powder coated and I start with the minimum jacketed weight and go up from there. My standard load is 4.2 grains of TiteGroup at 1.100" which goes about 1,180 fps. I have run them to 4.5 grains, which are more accurate, but pushing 1,250 fps, and kind of too much recoil, besides its way over the USPSA minor floor. For the .357SIG my load is 7.8 grains of BE-86, which is .4 grains over the jacketed minimum. Goes about 1,420 fps out of a Glock 31.

T. O'Heir · June 6, 2016, 01:12 PM

"...not a substitute for plating..." Plating isn't a substitute for a jacket either.
Kind of odd there's no mention about what the Hi Tek stuff actually is. No MSDS anywhere. The powder dissolves in acetone though. Makes me think it's nail polish.

9x45 · June 6, 2016, 05:02 PM

Yes, no MSDS for HiTek because it does not have a declared end use. Nobody really knows whats in it, most likely a polytetrafluoroethylene or perfluoroalkoxy, (Teflon). Low friction, high wear resistance, high chemical resistance, typically curing in the 400*F range with multiple thin applications. We did take HiTek coated bullets from a major supplier to the lab at Cal Tech and ran them thru the FTIR (Fourier transform infrared spectroscopy) after heating at 500*F for 2 hours and could pull nothing off. In my own experience I was running Bear Creeks, and blood lead level got to 28, which is too high. Only out door shooting at USPSA matches 4-6 times a month, but it's not just what you breath in from your own gun, plus when you RO you breath everyone else's exhaust. So I switched to Bayou HiTek and my blood lead went down to 8 in four months, it's no down to 6 after 12 months, about the same as guys running full metal jackets because you still breath in the lead styphnate from the primer.

jmorris · June 7, 2016, 11:29 AM

Contact Joe and he will send you the MSDS for hi-tek.

[email protected]

I have always used the same load data for lead and plated bullets, just make sure the plating stays together above 1200 fps. Pretty easy to tell as accuracy goes out the window if it's coming apart.

I found it interesting that a powder coated bullet will melt before a bare lead or hi-tek coated bullet.

Instead of turning into a blob, a hi-tek coated bullet will encase the molten lead, at least until you poke a hole in it, like the bullet in the background.

Or heat it up until the lead is melted inside and then drop it.

I have pushed hi-tek coated bullets to 2700 fps, a lot faster than any plated bullet I have ever shot. That said powder coat is a different animal.

My first go at powder coating.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...bullet+coating

And first go with hi-tek
http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...bullet+coating

9x45 · June 7, 2016, 12:41 PM

nice work, jmorris, we've never been able to get an MSDS. Our next step was going to buy the kit and run the solids thru the FTIR. The MSDS makes it much easier. These bullets have been in use in IPSC for over 20 years, and have caught on pretty good here in the last few years for USPSA.

Just finished emailing him

9x45 · June 7, 2016, 09:45 PM

Got a reply already, won't post the MSDS without permission from the TFL mods, but no surprises, a proprietary co-polymer, which is trade speak for patent. However an interesting comment.... I've worked in aerospace composites for 35 years, and it's fundamental, follow the cure cycle or expect bad results, both temperature and time.

Thanks for contact.
Attached is the MSDS on the product.
If you get odours whilst shooting, then it is mainly due to inadequate baking or not at high enough temperatures or both. The heat during baking drives off any volatile odorous materials and it should not be remaining in the baked coating. Having said that, depends on the loads, and powders used, can affect the coatings to destruction. The coatings are not armour plate, but a way of separating Lead from the bore. Severe heat can decompose product , but it is not expected to be done with short residue time inside a barrel.
Joe

jmorris · June 8, 2016, 08:26 AM

I figured he would sent it to you he did years ago when I asked him.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...highlight=Msds

I didn't want to say I had it in case he had changed his mind about giving it out.

Newtire · March 11, 2024, 10:49 PM

I’ve been shooting powder coated bullets (RCBS 165 gr. Silhouette) at 2400 fps with good accuracy using a reduced load of 4350 developed by a guy over on Castboolits as well as out of .45 acp, .357 pistol & rifle, 9mm, M1 carbine, .44 mag. You name it. Gave up on lubing once I started powder coating. Jacketed velocities are no trouble. No leading or gas port clogging. Size after coating and coating stays put. Great stuff.

June 4, 2016, 04:52 PM	#1
thumbs47 Member Join Date: September 28, 2015 Location: Souderton, Pa. Posts: 30	Loading for Powder Coated How are you guys loading for PC bullets? Are you using lead or plated data? Thanks

June 4, 2016, 06:37 PM	#4
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,187	LEAD DATA ONLY!!!!!!! The hi-tek coating is not a substitute for plating. __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.*

June 6, 2016, 10:13 AM	#14
9x45 Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2000 Location: Southern California Posts: 1,089	I've running Bayou 125 gr TC for both 9mm and .357SIG, which are HiTek coated, not powder coated and I start with the minimum jacketed weight and go up from there. My standard load is 4.2 grains of TiteGroup at 1.100" which goes about 1,180 fps. I have run them to 4.5 grains, which are more accurate, but pushing 1,250 fps, and kind of too much recoil, besides its way over the USPSA minor floor. For the .357SIG my load is 7.8 grains of BE-86, which is .4 grains over the jacketed minimum. Goes about 1,420 fps out of a Glock 31. __________________ Sometimes my Glock forgets where to look.....

June 6, 2016, 01:12 PM	#15
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...not a substitute for plating..." Plating isn't a substitute for a jacket either. Kind of odd there's no mention about what the Hi Tek stuff actually is. No MSDS anywhere. The powder dissolves in acetone though. Makes me think it's nail polish. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

June 6, 2016, 05:02 PM	#16
9x45 Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2000 Location: Southern California Posts: 1,089	Yes, no MSDS for HiTek because it does not have a declared end use. Nobody really knows whats in it, most likely a polytetrafluoroethylene or perfluoroalkoxy, (Teflon). Low friction, high wear resistance, high chemical resistance, typically curing in the 400F range with multiple thin applications. We did take HiTek coated bullets from a major supplier to the lab at Cal Tech and ran them thru the FTIR (Fourier transform infrared spectroscopy) after heating at 500F for 2 hours and could pull nothing off. In my own experience I was running Bear Creeks, and blood lead level got to 28, which is too high. Only out door shooting at USPSA matches 4-6 times a month, but it's not just what you breath in from your own gun, plus when you RO you breath everyone else's exhaust. So I switched to Bayou HiTek and my blood lead went down to 8 in four months, it's no down to 6 after 12 months, about the same as guys running full metal jackets because you still breath in the lead styphnate from the primer. __________________ Sometimes my Glock forgets where to look..... Last edited by 9x45; June 6, 2016 at 05:09 PM.

June 4, 2016, 06:04 PM	#2
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	I use lead data. The coating isn't thick enough to use heavy plated or jacketed data.

June 4, 2016, 06:28 PM	#3
thumbs47 Member Join Date: September 28, 2015 Location: Souderton, Pa. Posts: 30	Thanks. That's what I have always done just wondering if I could use the plated data also. I'll just stick with the lead.

June 4, 2016, 06:39 PM	#5
Rangerrich99 Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2014 Location: Kinda near Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,254	Lead.

June 4, 2016, 07:23 PM	#6
oldpapps Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2011 Location: Middle America Posts: 518	I do the 'Shake-en-bake' coating method. Granted I only coat bullets that will be used at velocities that at at or over the 'leading' range. I load my cast 130 grain .311 powder coated into .308 Win cases and push them to over 2800 FPS out of a M1A with a 22 inch barrel using 748 powder. I don't remember seeing cast loading data to that level. Oh, they do start getting shotgun accuracy as the velocity goes up. Same bullets only in 30.06 cases and fired in a 1903-A3 at velocities around 2550 FPS are as accurate as any jacketed bullet. Powder used for these is 2400. These are only 'also' loaded with my primary use in .300 Blackout. I don't know just what the standards are, just what I have been doing. Load with care, OSOK

June 4, 2016, 08:31 PM	#7
thumbs47 Member Join Date: September 28, 2015 Location: Souderton, Pa. Posts: 30	Thanks guys. I'll stick with the lead. The loads work fine as they are. Just considering options. No problem with staying with lead data. Thanks

June 5, 2016, 08:11 AM	#10
SARuger Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 2014 Location: Blue Ridge Mountains of VA Posts: 954	I use data from the Lyman Cast Bullet handbook. I'm loading coated cast bullets in the following calibers now; 9mm, .38spcl, .357mag, 30-30

June 5, 2016, 08:28 AM	#11
thumbs47 Member Join Date: September 28, 2015 Location: Souderton, Pa. Posts: 30	dahermit Can you give a specific link? I was looking over there but couldn't find data for pc cast. Very well may have just skipped over without seeing but I didn't see it. thanks

June 7, 2016, 11:29 AM	#17
jmorris Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2006 Posts: 3,077	Contact Joe and he will send you the MSDS for hi-tek. [email protected] I have always used the same load data for lead and plated bullets, just make sure the plating stays together above 1200 fps. Pretty easy to tell as accuracy goes out the window if it's coming apart. I found it interesting that a powder coated bullet will melt before a bare lead or hi-tek coated bullet. Instead of turning into a blob, a hi-tek coated bullet will encase the molten lead, at least until you poke a hole in it, like the bullet in the background. Or heat it up until the lead is melted inside and then drop it. I have pushed hi-tek coated bullets to 2700 fps, a lot faster than any plated bullet I have ever shot. That said powder coat is a different animal. My first go at powder coating. http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...bullet+coating And first go with hi-tek http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...bullet+coating

June 7, 2016, 12:41 PM	#18
9x45 Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2000 Location: Southern California Posts: 1,089	nice work, jmorris, we've never been able to get an MSDS. Our next step was going to buy the kit and run the solids thru the FTIR. The MSDS makes it much easier. These bullets have been in use in IPSC for over 20 years, and have caught on pretty good here in the last few years for USPSA. Just finished emailing him __________________ Sometimes my Glock forgets where to look.....

June 7, 2016, 09:45 PM	#19
9x45 Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2000 Location: Southern California Posts: 1,089	Got a reply already, won't post the MSDS without permission from the TFL mods, but no surprises, a proprietary co-polymer, which is trade speak for patent. However an interesting comment.... I've worked in aerospace composites for 35 years, and it's fundamental, follow the cure cycle or expect bad results, both temperature and time. Thanks for contact. Attached is the MSDS on the product. If you get odours whilst shooting, then it is mainly due to inadequate baking or not at high enough temperatures or both. The heat during baking drives off any volatile odorous materials and it should not be remaining in the baked coating. Having said that, depends on the loads, and powders used, can affect the coatings to destruction. The coatings are not armour plate, but a way of separating Lead from the bore. Severe heat can decompose product , but it is not expected to be done with short residue time inside a barrel. Joe __________________ Sometimes my Glock forgets where to look.....

June 8, 2016, 08:26 AM	#20
jmorris Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2006 Posts: 3,077	I figured he would sent it to you he did years ago when I asked him. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...highlight=Msds I didn't want to say I had it in case he had changed his mind about giving it out.

March 11, 2024, 10:49 PM	#21
Newtire Member Join Date: September 20, 2008 Posts: 26	I’ve been shooting powder coated bullets (RCBS 165 gr. Silhouette) at 2400 fps with good accuracy using a reduced load of 4350 developed by a guy over on Castboolits as well as out of .45 acp, .357 pistol & rifle, 9mm, M1 carbine, .44 mag. You name it. Gave up on lubing once I started powder coating. Jacketed velocities are no trouble. No leading or gas port clogging. Size after coating and coating stays put. Great stuff.