H450 30-06 data? Anyone?

[Yosemite Steve]

I have 5 lbs of H450 I want to try out in my Enfield 30-06. She's 26" long. It came from a friend who passed away that swore by it for his 30-06. When I tried in my Savage, which is 22" my shots were all over the paper and the snow out in front of me was pretty dirty. I think a longer barrel might like this powder more but there is little to no information on the internet about this powder. Here is what I dug out of the old manuals I got from Pirate Bay and handed down from my dad.

The OLD Lyman is giving me a max load of 60.0 grains compressed through a 22" barrel for 2624 fps. An old Hornady manual gives me 2500 fps at their max load of 59.0 grains. My Speer manual from 1985 gives me a max load of 56.1 at 2700 fps. An old Hodgdon gives me a max load of 58.0 grains for 2581 fps through a 26" barrel. I guess we'll just have to see what the chronograph says.

I'll be using mag primers and I think I'll start around 54 grains. My Savage gobbled up 60 grains with neck bumped brass and shooting close to the lands. For this round I will be firing fully sized brass to get more formed to the Enfield.

[RC20]

Would that be a Model of 1917 Eddystone? or Remington or Winchester)

Bullet weight as well as the type is very important when working with reloads, I see no bullet type listed.

If so, it has a loose chamber and head spaces long so the first round is going to be a fire form operation. I blowup sequester those cases to be specifically loaded for and sized to that gun.

Bullets seem to like to be seated about .020 off the lands, and they tend to be long to the lands.

I have done well with 4350 and 175 grain bullets. Flat based are reported to work better and that seems to be true in mine.

This has some loads of H450 for 150 to 180.

http://www.accuratereloading.com/30-06s.html

[Yosemite Steve]

It's a winchester and the throat isn't too long. Shooting 180 SST's. COL is 3.335 at .010 off lands.

[Unclenick]

Powder burn rate makes a difference in an SBR or single-shot handgun with barrels under 10" or so. For the 16" minimum that is for a standard rifle barrel and longer, all powders that produce the most velocity in one will produce the most velocity in all the others, as well. The 22 vs 26 inch barrel may make some difference in muzzle flash, as the longer barrel lets it cool a bit more, but by then pressure is already so low that you won't burn much more powder. You'll get dirty snow, either way.

H450 is an obsolete powder, a little slower than H414 in burn rate. Several sources recommend different maximums for 180 grain bullets in .30-06 (as you've noticed; probably because burn rate was less well controlled, lot-to-lot when it was still available). These range from 56.1 to 59 grains. I would use a CCI 250 primer or a Federal 215 primer and not try to use a powder that slow with a lighter bullet that is much lighter than that. It may be OK with 165's, but start with your 180's and work the loads up from 50.5 grains (10% less than the slower 56.1 grain limit) and see how the pressure signs and snow look. If you have one of the slower lots, it may do better with a still heavier bullet.

[Dufus]

I tried H450 years ago in three different 06s. It did not shoot worth a crap in any of them with 5 different bullets from 180-200 gr.

I abandoned it due to poor results. This was 1974-1976.

[243winxb]

http://stevespages.com/page8a.htm

I would burn it, not load it. But if you must, use a magnum primer.

H450 in 22-250 Powder started burning and stopped in a few of the 20 rounds years ago. Another one i don't like H380.

[Pathfinder45]

Not all H450 is the same. I've had some that was slightly flattend ball-type powder, while a later lot was completely spherical and if spilled would roll all over the place. It had a lot of inconsistency and was discontinued. When it was, "right", it was the ball-powder analog of the extruded H-4831. So it was generally much better suited to the 270 Winchester and magnum cartridges than it was to the 30-'06, though it could work OK with the heaviest bullets. But alas, I found that one lot was very hot with the so-called starting loads, while the other could be run at or above the listed maximum. Basically, they were entirely different powders. If I happened to still have 5 pounds of it, I would find a way to use it, but I would have to be pretty desperate for powder to ever consider using it again, now that it's all gone. Be extra careful with it and don't start with anything more than the lowest listed starting charge. Use a chronograph if you have one available, and if you are getting unexpectedly high velocity, back down. If each pound has different lot numbers, beware: The load you worked up for one pound might not be safe for the next. This is good advice for any powder, but especially H450. It has a reputation for having high-pressure spikes if you go just one grain over the limit in ways that H-4831 does not. And that limit could be well below book-maximum. It's an unforgiving powder. Proceed cautiously, be safe, be wise. If you use it for fertilizer, I wouldn't blame you.

[Unclenick]

Long ago, Hodgdon just sold surplus powders, so they were bulk powder and not the canister powders we get now with more tightly controlled burn rates. H4831 back in those older times, and probably H450 as well were surplus government 20 mm powders.

H380 was intended for .30-06 at its inception (it is canister grade WC-852), but H450 was not. There's been a lot of stuff listed in load manuals over the years just to enable people to use what they already have on hand, and not because it was actually an optimal choice in any way.

[Yosemite Steve]

This powder is all of the same lot number and spherical. It meters perfectly. I have worked it up to max load in my savage but will start back at the bottom for the enfield. 51 to 60 grains at .5 grain increments. I will inspect my brass/primers after each round and use a chronograph. My friend said it was his favorite powder for 30-06. My Savage begged to differ. I don't know what bullets he was using.

[RC20]

You never know. 4350 is a 30-06 go to powder but I have done better with H4831 in the Savage.

For the 1917 I think bullet choice is more important factor.

4350 has done well in the 1917 though.

With 5 lbs I sure would not turn it down and you have a lot to work with for some time.

1 lb would not be worth it.

Note the speeds and when out cross to another powder that is a bit above and below that speed and see how it does.

Until you brought it up I was not at all familiar with it, kind of neat to learn something new even though I will never use it!

[Yosemite Steve]

Ya. 5 pounds of consistent lot number kept my interest. I will try some heavy bullets too when I can afford them. I really do need to get some 4350 though and work that up in both guns. So far Superformance wins the speed test at 1MOA with 2843 fps. 180 SST in my Savage and bevels are still visible on the primers... barely.

[RC20]

Is that 180SST a flat base?

If so the 1917 might like it.

Have to look at ID, but mine has liked the Hornady 180 Lead tips flat base.

ps: Hornady has too many acronyms now, can't remember them all.

If its in individual cans I would mix it.

I keep an empty 8 lb jug on hand for doing that.

It would also help keep the powder uniform to conditions in one jug vs 5 that get opened up at different times of the year.

Eventually you get down to the last 1.5 pounds or so and it can go into a 1 lb jug, as they have lots of empty space.

[T. O'Heir]

H450 was discontinued more than 10 years ago. If you work up a load, you won't be able to get more of it.
Unless you know how it has been stored, it may be a better idea to use it as fertiliser.
Anyway, H450 is really slow burning stuff. Sat at #92 on old charts. H4831 sat at #93. IMR4831 at #90.

[RC20]

5 lbs of power is worth about $180 these days.

You would throw away all that shooting and load development fun?

I sure would not. It might shoot well in the 1917 and you could go on for quite a while.

[Yosemite Steve]

On average it takes me 1/2 to 1 pound to figure out a decent load. That will leave me with plenty of powder to load into effective ammo. I will do several and learn along the way. My old Hodgdon powder booklet suggests the 30-06 exclusively for this powder.

[Pathfinder45]

If you were me, and the powder is still in good condition, I can tell you that I would certainly use it. But I have a 270 to use it in. Even if you don't get optimum results, you can still use it for cheap off-hand plinking loads where long range accuracy is not particularly relevant. Or, you could possibly trade it off at a gunshow for a powder you like better. I'd just use it.

[Yosemite Steve]

This powder likes the Enfield! I had a 1/2" group at 2370 fps and 3/4" around 2627 fps. 59.0 grains which was my max was about an inch at 2654 fps and kicked like a mule! I had a couple ski gloves between me and the gun for the upper charges. No over pressure signs but the primers had no bevel visible on the last charge. I will set my cold temperature maximum at 58.5 grains. I respect the lower maximums given by the old Speer manual as they are probably pretty hot loads when it's warmer out. I really like the 2350 charge as it will be a fun target load. No dirty snow either! I will do another work up this summer to see what the temperature does to the loads.

[Yosemite Steve]

On another note, the head stamp difference on my FC brass gave me huge variations in velocity. Deviations with the mixed brass ranged from 45 to 94 fps deviations. Uniform brass had a maximum deviation of 24 fps. My minimum load of 52.9 grains had a 3.2 deviation and the 58.5 grain load had a deviation of 6.8.

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

H-450 is the same canister powder that was brought to the market place by Winchester under this title/label> Win 785.

I personally never found a used for H-450/Win785 as I'm a dedicated Dupont/IMR user. As I recall the reason for H-450s/785 sliding off shelves into the state of being forgotten i.e. obscurity. So to accommodate Winchesters new propellant. 760.

Those who tried either 450/785 and complained. I highly doubt their powder charge was ignited with a Magnum Primer. Something the slow burning powder definitely required.

I knew a couple fellows who used the powder in their big bore Mag rifle cartridges. If asked what they encountered with its use. I'll bet you'll hear "wish it was still available."

[Pathfinder45]

I liked Winchester's MRP a lot better.

[Yosemite Steve]

Using a known happy seating depth I was pushing 180 SSTs out of my Enfield at 2450 fps and shooting 1/2 MOA consistently today. Still have 4 pounds to play with.

[44 AMP]

59.0 grains which was my max was about an inch at 2654 fps and kicked like a mule!

1970 Lyman manual lists 56.5 as max H450 180gr .30-06.
2724fps from their 26" test barrel.

So, at 59gr, you're a "bit off the map". Every gun is different, but if there's no bevel on the edge of the primers, you shouldn't go any higher!! And would probably be a good idea to back off your max a little, too.

[old roper]

I have Nosler 1st manual and they use H-205, H-450,H-870 also Norma MRP. I used MRP 7mag and H-870 7 Wby. For 30-06 they used H-205, 280,300H&H and some others H-450.

Propellant Profiles 2nd Edition had max of 59gr/H-450,180gr @ 2604fps listed for 30-06. The loads go from 220 Swift to 460 Wby and they list cost @ $3.25 per lb can.

[Yosemite Steve]

1970 Lyman manual lists 56.5 as max H450 180gr .30-06.
2724fps from their 26" test barrel.

My old Hodgdon data pamphlet that came with the powder said 58 2581 46,000
My even older Lyman - 1967 had 54 to 60 grains
1964 Speer said Max was 62

I know these were all old manuals. I did work up slowly and I did back my maximum off. I actually like the 2450 fps just fine and it didn't give me bruises. Between all of the manuals I read there was a 6 grain difference in max load!

I will say that the process I used seemed to be pretty effective at finding a nice sweet spot. So far it is the most accurate powder I have for the 180 grain bullet in my Enfield.

[std7mag]

Yikes!!!
A pound of powder to find a load??

I use a total of 22 shots. That includes ladder test and group test to find seating depth.