Kimber 10mm or Glock 20?

HighValleyRanch · July 5, 2018, 04:42 PM

I've owned two glock 20's and a glock 29 for my woods carry. I also have experience with Colt 1911's in .45 acp.

So I saw a Kimber Stainless Target II in 10mm and fell in love with it. Much thinner than the glock 20's which was the reason I gave them up.

So does anyone have first hand experiences with the Kimber 10mm to offer?
Here in CA, we have a ten round limit anyways, so no high capacity in the glock 20 anways. 8+1 in the Kimber is fine. Weight wise, I've been carrying my Colt series 70 aro,und and with a good belt, it's doable. Concealment, the 1911 wins out over the glock. Platform wise, I am OK with either. Reliability, no experience with 10mm in the 1911 platform. Will be used for limited range use and mostly woods carry with hot Buffalobore hardcast outdoorsman loads or Underwood (I stocked up on BB 10mm before the CA online ammo ban this past year).

The 10mm looks to be identical in size to the Colt government model 1911 so I can practice with my series 70 with .45 acp cheaper. I also can set up to reload 10mm.

stephen426 · July 5, 2018, 05:02 PM

If you run out of ammo and have to pistol whip someone, the stainless Kimber will be much more effective. LOL

The trigger on the 1911 will be much better than the Glock. The Kimber is a bit heavier which is a pro and a con. The extra weight will help tame recoil, but having to lug another 7 ounces of weight all day may get tiresome. If you are used to the 1911, it is not big deal. You will need to remember to sweep the safety off, which you did not have to do with the Glock.

libiglou · July 5, 2018, 06:10 PM

I have one. I have shot thousands of rounds through mine and the only problem I had was with a pin braking on the adjustable sights. It is a very accurate gun. I shoot all reloads and mine tend to be soft so I cant tell you how it will hold up with full power loads. Functioning has been flawless and its just a well built 1911. Depending on how you intend to use it you can't go wrong.

jsust · July 5, 2018, 06:28 PM

I dont own a 10mm in 1911 but here is my input. If you want a shooter get the 1911. If you plan on carring for whatever reason then get the glock 20. Now i have smaller hands so the 1911 platform fits me better than the g20. I had to sell my 20 because it was too big in my hand. I got it for the fun of ahopting and i didnt find it enjoyable enough to keep. Im sure if I carried it I would do fine shooting well but I carry small and light so the 10mm is out for me.

stagpanther · July 5, 2018, 07:09 PM

Very interested in this--I too have shot a G20 for years but could never do it well--just can't get my hands around it well. I want a 1911 in 10mm--but I don't want to give up any velocity so I'm not willing to go below a 6" barrel.

HighValleyRanch · July 5, 2018, 09:38 PM

Stagpanther, I see that Remington makes a R11 6" hunter long slide in 10mm.
https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...ducts_id/21276

stagpanther · July 6, 2018, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Stagpanther, I see that Remington makes a R11 6" hunter long slide in 10mm.
https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...ducts_id/21276
__________________
From the sweet grass to the slaughter house; From birth until death; We travel between these two eternities........from 'Broken Trail"

Yeah I've handled it and it looks very nice. I believe their's is from the company they bought out a few years ago--can't remember the name (para ordinance?) but it was a very fine pistol formally. Now--well, who knows what's up with remmie. I've considered straying off the 1911 farm after looking at springfield armory's elite operator.

CDW4ME · July 6, 2018, 05:57 AM

I've got Kimber and Glock 10mm, for me 1911 pistols are more comfortable IWB.
Carry two spare 9 round Wilson mags, total 27 rounds 10mm.

Tomas · July 7, 2018, 11:20 AM

I had a Kimber Eclipse in 10 mm that they never could get to work right. Two trips back and it still had lots of issues. I dumped it. I always thought Kimbers we over rated guns. I have the Glock 20 which I love and decided I had to “eat it” and sprung for a Wilson in 10mm so I could have a reliable 1911 in 10. I only had the one Kimber but it didn’t work. Truly they make cookie cutter guns with pretty good reliability. But they are not solid.

T. O'Heir · July 7, 2018, 11:58 AM

The Colt Government Model 1911A1 and Colt Delta Elite are the same gun. Only difference is the chambering. Shot a Delta long ago when they were new with Norma ammo(wasn't anything else then). The Norma 200 grain FMJ ran at 1200 fps compared to a 230 FMJ's 835 FPS. The 10mm has pretty much the same felt recoil as a factory ACP. Doesn't do anything better or worse. Wouldn't have bought one then or now. No great advantage to a 10mm.
A Kimber Stainless Target II weighs 38 ounces empty. A Glock 20 weighs 30.89 ounces empty. The difference in width between 'em is exactly .01" That's 1/100".
"...can practice with my series 70 with .45 ACP cheaper..." You should practice with the pistol and ammo you intend using for carry.

jmr40 · July 7, 2018, 02:17 PM

To my way of thinking 10mm is just a better fit in either the G20 or G29 than a 1911. I've had a G20 for ages, and picked up a G29 a few years ago to make carry easier. I don't shoot the G20 any better than the G29 so it hasn't been used much since and I can always use 15 round G20 mags in the G29.

Mine are older Gen 3 pistols with the large grips. They work for me, but I can understand others having problems with them. But I'd think the newer SF frames or Gen 4's would come closer to fitting more people's hands. This should be much less of an issue than before.

I have several 1911's as well, but it just doesn't seem right to have them in any cartridge other than 45 ACP.

Quote:

The 10mm has pretty much the same felt recoil as a factory ACP. Doesn't do anything better or worse.

If your purpose is personal defense from 2 legged predators then I agree. Either will do the job and you don't get bonus points for killing a bad guy deader. But when you start carrying a handgun for 4 legged predator threats 10mm (with proper loads) takes it to another level. Many 10mm loads are scarcely better than 40 S&W.

The way I see it unless there is the threat of a bear encounter I never carry my 10mm pistols. I have others that are just as effective for that purpose. The more compact size and reduced weight, along with double the ammo capacity of a Glock over a 1911 give it the edge for this role. And I'll never be convinced that a 1911 is anywhere near as rugged and reliable as a Glock, especially 1911's in 10mm. And that is based on 40 years of shooting 1911's.

The 1911 is going to be more accurate, and I think a better range toy. But my Glocks are accurate enough for SD out to 25 yards. I suppose the 1911's better accuracy could be an advantage for hunting. But I'd still prefer a long barreled magnum revolver for a variety of reasons if I planned to hunt with a handgun.

Buckeye! · July 7, 2018, 02:23 PM

I have two 10mm pistols...a 29 & a 20 ...

rock185 · July 8, 2018, 02:19 AM

I had both, plus a Colt Delta. Each has it's advantages, but if buying one again, it would be the Kimber. I've been sorely tempted by the new Kimber long slide in 10MM. Since 10MM ammunition is available with such a wide variation in power levels,i.e., from very soft shooting FBI/.40 S&W level ammo, to some very energetic "boutique" ammo, I believe adjustable sights to be desirable. I'm not the biggest fan of 1911s chambered in 10MM, but IMHO the Kimber is a good one. BTW, it never hurt my feelings that the Kimber has the best case head support I've ever seen in a 1911 10MM pistol.

stagpanther · July 8, 2018, 05:22 AM

Quote:

The 10mm has pretty much the same felt recoil as a factory ACP

Not in my experience--I own both and have shot many thousands of rounds through both--a conventional 45acp just doesn't have the energy of a "genuine" 10mm load. That said, I generally can shoot the 45 better than a 10mm, but that's probably because I have a G20 double-stack which I've never been able to get a good grip on.

CDW4ME · July 8, 2018, 05:53 AM

OP didn't ask for 10mm vs 45 but is getting it, I'll include data.

10mm Handload 180 Nosler @ 1,228 fps / 603# KE - recoil energy 9.2 - PF 221
10mm Handload Nosler 150 JHP @ 1,402 fps / 655# KE - recoil energy 9.4 - PF 210
45 acp Winchester 230 Ranger T @ 915 fps / 428# KE - recoil energy 8.2 - PF 210
45 acp Remington Golden Saber 185 +P @ 1,157 fps / 550# KE - recoil energy 9.0 - PF 214

Using calculations, 10mm recoil is not that much greater than 45 acp and my subjective impression agrees.

10mm offers more KE, depending on the load a difference of 35% or more
* Underwood loads the same Nosler 10mm bullets at 1,500 fps and 1,250 fps *

I've documented 1 1/4'' hole in tissue (deer) from a 155 XTP 10mm that only expands to about .65
Over 600# KE made hole in tissue larger than what bullet physically touched.

10mm offers an extra round capacity in 1911 platform.

stagpanther · July 8, 2018, 06:02 AM

I knew that +p would be snuck in. LOL

TruthTellers · July 8, 2018, 12:16 PM

I agree with jmr that 10mm is a better fit in a Glock, but since you're limited to 10 rds, I'd go Kimber and wouldn't look back. Unless you're also thinking about a 10mm carbine in the future as I think those are only a few years away and most of them will probably use Glock mags.

Specifically looking at Ruger on this. They offer the 9mm PC carbine with adapters to use Glock mags, can see them doing the same with a 10mm.

I was literally just looking at 10mm's on gunbroker before posting this and I want a 10mm with a doublestack and so far only Glock, EAA, and Rock Island offer that. I hope more companies start offering higher capacity 10mm pistols cuz what's available now isn't going to be what helps keep the popularity surge of 10mm going.

indie_rocker · July 9, 2018, 09:58 AM

My Glock 20 SF has been stupidly reliable. I bought it out of frustration. My first 10mm was an EAA Witness Compact-P. It couldn't get through 3 or 4 rounds without choking and customer service didn't seem to care. I sold it and bought the Glock. I've lived in 10mm bliss ever since.

I don't even like Glock's I think they're ugly, cookie cutter pistols. But they certainly work when called upon. Kimber does not share that same reputation. Sometimes they're great right out of the box, sometimes they go back for work. A Glock will just be ugly and work.

M88 · July 10, 2018, 12:58 AM

I picked up a used G20 and shot it for the first time last week. Was amazed at how LITTLE kick it had compared to what I was expecting. I guess that huge heavy slide... or how it was balanced? Was a more pleasant experience than I was expecting. Only downside as has been mentioned is how big the thing is. I have to wrap both hands around it whether I want to or not to feel comfortable shooting it. Like folks said, it you can only legally put 10 rounds anyway, you don't really need that extra size and capacity.

Lohman446 · July 10, 2018, 10:50 AM

I bought a Glock 29 and when firing it even with reasonably stout loads could not figure what all the "OMG too much recoil" complaints were about.

Then I bought a Colt Delta Elite. I shoot the Glock A LOT more. The Delta's perceived recoil, despite being heavier, is STOUT compared to the Glock.

Topthis · January 1, 2019, 02:02 AM

So for those that own or have had experience with shooting both the 1911 and the Glock in 10mm...what is your experience with the comparison in recoil? I have shot the Glock 20 and was absolutely surprised at how the recoil felt surprisingly close to a .45. I have been toying with picking up a 1911 in 10mm but have heard the recoil is felt much much more with the 1911.

Lohman446 · January 1, 2019, 06:24 AM

When I first got my G29 I could not figure out what the deal with recoil was even using warm loads. Really not bad at all. I figured it out when I bought a Delta Elte. There is a PRONOUNCED difference. 10MM in a 1911 is not something you would enjoy several hundred rounds in a day. In the Glock it’s not an issue

stagpanther · January 1, 2019, 08:58 AM

If you handload your own full power 10mm load--you'll feel it. If you don't, it's not a full-power load.

USNRet93 · January 1, 2019, 09:02 AM

Glock 20..asked and answered..

Hammerhead · January 1, 2019, 11:24 AM

Glock 20 is a solid gun, had one for a few years, but it's hard to keep up with a good 1911 at 25 and 50 yards. The 1911 ergo's and trigger pull win every time for me.

I just bought a Kimber Target II (in wimpy 9mm), and for the money I'm very very happy. Well fitted, great trigger, everything works like it supposed to, plus it shoots like a laser gun and it's been reliable.

July 5, 2018, 04:42 PM	#1
HighValleyRanch Senior Member Join Date: July 15, 2005 Posts: 4,066	Kimber 10mm or Glock 20? I've owned two glock 20's and a glock 29 for my woods carry. I also have experience with Colt 1911's in .45 acp. So I saw a Kimber Stainless Target II in 10mm and fell in love with it. Much thinner than the glock 20's which was the reason I gave them up. So does anyone have first hand experiences with the Kimber 10mm to offer? Here in CA, we have a ten round limit anyways, so no high capacity in the glock 20 anways. 8+1 in the Kimber is fine. Weight wise, I've been carrying my Colt series 70 aro,und and with a good belt, it's doable. Concealment, the 1911 wins out over the glock. Platform wise, I am OK with either. Reliability, no experience with 10mm in the 1911 platform. Will be used for limited range use and mostly woods carry with hot Buffalobore hardcast outdoorsman loads or Underwood (I stocked up on BB 10mm before the CA online ammo ban this past year). The 10mm looks to be identical in size to the Colt government model 1911 so I can practice with my series 70 with .45 acp cheaper. I also can set up to reload 10mm. __________________ From the sweet grass to the slaughter house; From birth until death; We travel between these two eternities........from 'Broken Trail" Last edited by HighValleyRanch; July 5, 2018 at 09:37 PM.

July 5, 2018, 05:02 PM	#2
stephen426 Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2005 Posts: 3,840	If you run out of ammo and have to pistol whip someone, the stainless Kimber will be much more effective. LOL The trigger on the 1911 will be much better than the Glock. The Kimber is a bit heavier which is a pro and a con. The extra weight will help tame recoil, but having to lug another 7 ounces of weight all day may get tiresome. If you are used to the 1911, it is not big deal. You will need to remember to sweep the safety off, which you did not have to do with the Glock. __________________ The ATF should be a convenience store instead of a government agency!

July 5, 2018, 07:09 PM	#5
stagpanther Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2014 Posts: 11,771	Very interested in this--I too have shot a G20 for years but could never do it well--just can't get my hands around it well. I want a 1911 in 10mm--but I don't want to give up any velocity so I'm not willing to go below a 6" barrel. __________________ "Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill *I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!*

July 6, 2018, 05:57 AM	#8
CDW4ME Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2009 Posts: 1,321	I've got Kimber and Glock 10mm, for me 1911 pistols are more comfortable IWB. Carry two spare 9 round Wilson mags, total 27 rounds 10mm. __________________ Strive to carry the handgun you would want anywhere, everywhere; forget that good area bullcrap. "Wouldn't want to / Nobody volunteer to" get shot by _____ is not indicative of quickly incapacitating.

July 7, 2018, 11:58 AM	#10
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	The Colt Government Model 1911A1 and Colt Delta Elite are the same gun. Only difference is the chambering. Shot a Delta long ago when they were new with Norma ammo(wasn't anything else then). The Norma 200 grain FMJ ran at 1200 fps compared to a 230 FMJ's 835 FPS. The 10mm has pretty much the same felt recoil as a factory ACP. Doesn't do anything better or worse. Wouldn't have bought one then or now. No great advantage to a 10mm. A Kimber Stainless Target II weighs 38 ounces empty. A Glock 20 weighs 30.89 ounces empty. The difference in width between 'em is exactly .01" That's 1/100". "...can practice with my series 70 with .45 ACP cheaper..." You should practice with the pistol and ammo you intend using for carry. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

July 5, 2018, 06:10 PM	#3
libiglou Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 2017 Posts: 184	I have one. I have shot thousands of rounds through mine and the only problem I had was with a pin braking on the adjustable sights. It is a very accurate gun. I shoot all reloads and mine tend to be soft so I cant tell you how it will hold up with full power loads. Functioning has been flawless and its just a well built 1911. Depending on how you intend to use it you can't go wrong.

July 5, 2018, 06:28 PM	#4
jsust Member Join Date: March 14, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 52	I dont own a 10mm in 1911 but here is my input. If you want a shooter get the 1911. If you plan on carring for whatever reason then get the glock 20. Now i have smaller hands so the 1911 platform fits me better than the g20. I had to sell my 20 because it was too big in my hand. I got it for the fun of ahopting and i didnt find it enjoyable enough to keep. Im sure if I carried it I would do fine shooting well but I carry small and light so the 10mm is out for me.

July 5, 2018, 09:38 PM	#6
HighValleyRanch Senior Member Join Date: July 15, 2005 Posts: 4,066	Stagpanther, I see that Remington makes a R11 6" hunter long slide in 10mm. https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...ducts_id/21276 __________________ From the sweet grass to the slaughter house; From birth until death; We travel between these two eternities........from 'Broken Trail"

July 7, 2018, 11:20 AM	#9
Tomas Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 1999 Location: Blue State Posts: 441	I had a Kimber Eclipse in 10 mm that they never could get to work right. Two trips back and it still had lots of issues. I dumped it. I always thought Kimbers we over rated guns. I have the Glock 20 which I love and decided I had to “eat it” and sprung for a Wilson in 10mm so I could have a reliable 1911 in 10. I only had the one Kimber but it didn’t work. Truly they make cookie cutter guns with pretty good reliability. But they are not solid.

July 7, 2018, 02:23 PM	#12
Buckeye! Senior Member Join Date: September 1, 2008 Posts: 849	I have two 10mm pistols...a 29 & a 20 ...

July 8, 2018, 02:19 AM	#13
rock185 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2001 Location: Out West in Rim Country Posts: 1,091	I had both, plus a Colt Delta. Each has it's advantages, but if buying one again, it would be the Kimber. I've been sorely tempted by the new Kimber long slide in 10MM. Since 10MM ammunition is available with such a wide variation in power levels,i.e., from very soft shooting FBI/.40 S&W level ammo, to some very energetic "boutique" ammo, I believe adjustable sights to be desirable. I'm not the biggest fan of 1911s chambered in 10MM, but IMHO the Kimber is a good one. BTW, it never hurt my feelings that the Kimber has the best case head support I've ever seen in a 1911 10MM pistol. __________________ COTEP 640, NRA Life Last edited by rock185; July 8, 2018 at 01:23 PM.

July 8, 2018, 05:53 AM	#15
CDW4ME Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2009 Posts: 1,321	OP didn't ask for 10mm vs 45 but is getting it, I'll include data. 10mm Handload 180 Nosler @ 1,228 fps / 603# KE - recoil energy 9.2 - PF 221 10mm Handload Nosler 150 JHP @ 1,402 fps / 655# KE - recoil energy 9.4 - PF 210 45 acp Winchester 230 Ranger T @ 915 fps / 428# KE - recoil energy 8.2 - PF 210 45 acp Remington Golden Saber 185 +P @ 1,157 fps / 550# KE - recoil energy 9.0 - PF 214 Using calculations, 10mm recoil is not that much greater than 45 acp and my subjective impression agrees. 10mm offers more KE, depending on the load a difference of 35% or more * Underwood loads the same Nosler 10mm bullets at 1,500 fps and 1,250 fps * I've documented 1 1/4'' hole in tissue (deer) from a 155 XTP 10mm that only expands to about .65 Over 600# KE made hole in tissue larger than what bullet physically touched. 10mm offers an extra round capacity in 1911 platform. __________________ Strive to carry the handgun you would want anywhere, everywhere; forget that good area bullcrap. "Wouldn't want to / Nobody volunteer to" get shot by _____ is not indicative of quickly incapacitating.

July 8, 2018, 06:02 AM	#16
stagpanther Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2014 Posts: 11,771	I knew that +p would be snuck in. LOL __________________ "Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill *I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!*

July 8, 2018, 12:16 PM	#17
TruthTellers Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2016 Posts: 3,883	I agree with jmr that 10mm is a better fit in a Glock, but since you're limited to 10 rds, I'd go Kimber and wouldn't look back. Unless you're also thinking about a 10mm carbine in the future as I think those are only a few years away and most of them will probably use Glock mags. Specifically looking at Ruger on this. They offer the 9mm PC carbine with adapters to use Glock mags, can see them doing the same with a 10mm. I was literally just looking at 10mm's on gunbroker before posting this and I want a 10mm with a doublestack and so far only Glock, EAA, and Rock Island offer that. I hope more companies start offering higher capacity 10mm pistols cuz what's available now isn't going to be what helps keep the popularity surge of 10mm going. __________________ "We always think there's gonna be more time... then it runs out."

July 9, 2018, 09:58 AM	#18
indie_rocker Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2014 Location: Michigan Posts: 189	My Glock 20 SF has been stupidly reliable. I bought it out of frustration. My first 10mm was an EAA Witness Compact-P. It couldn't get through 3 or 4 rounds without choking and customer service didn't seem to care. I sold it and bought the Glock. I've lived in 10mm bliss ever since. I don't even like Glock's I think they're ugly, cookie cutter pistols. But they certainly work when called upon. Kimber does not share that same reputation. Sometimes they're great right out of the box, sometimes they go back for work. A Glock will just be ugly and work.

July 10, 2018, 12:58 AM	#19
M88 Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2018 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 278	I picked up a used G20 and shot it for the first time last week. Was amazed at how LITTLE kick it had compared to what I was expecting. I guess that huge heavy slide... or how it was balanced? Was a more pleasant experience than I was expecting. Only downside as has been mentioned is how big the thing is. I have to wrap both hands around it whether I want to or not to feel comfortable shooting it. Like folks said, it you can only legally put 10 rounds anyway, you don't really need that extra size and capacity. __________________ NRA life member. Making good people helpless doesn't make bad people harmless!

July 10, 2018, 10:50 AM	#20
Lohman446 Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2016 Posts: 2,192	I bought a Glock 29 and when firing it even with reasonably stout loads could not figure what all the "OMG too much recoil" complaints were about. Then I bought a Colt Delta Elite. I shoot the Glock A LOT more. The Delta's perceived recoil, despite being heavier, is STOUT compared to the Glock.

January 1, 2019, 02:02 AM	#21
Topthis Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2005 Posts: 863	So for those that own or have had experience with shooting both the 1911 and the Glock in 10mm...what is your experience with the comparison in recoil? I have shot the Glock 20 and was absolutely surprised at how the recoil felt surprisingly close to a .45. I have been toying with picking up a 1911 in 10mm but have heard the recoil is felt much much more with the 1911.

January 1, 2019, 06:24 AM	#22
Lohman446 Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2016 Posts: 2,192	When I first got my G29 I could not figure out what the deal with recoil was even using warm loads. Really not bad at all. I figured it out when I bought a Delta Elte. There is a PRONOUNCED difference. 10MM in a 1911 is not something you would enjoy several hundred rounds in a day. In the Glock it’s not an issue

January 1, 2019, 08:58 AM	#23
stagpanther Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2014 Posts: 11,771	If you handload your own full power 10mm load--you'll feel it. If you don't, it's not a full-power load. __________________ "Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill *I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!*

January 1, 2019, 09:02 AM	#24
USNRet93 Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 2018 Location: Republic of Boulder, USA Posts: 1,475	Glock 20..asked and answered.. __________________ PhormerPhantomPhlyer "Tools not Trophies”

January 1, 2019, 11:24 AM	#25
Hammerhead Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,432	Glock 20 is a solid gun, had one for a few years, but it's hard to keep up with a good 1911 at 25 and 50 yards. The 1911 ergo's and trigger pull win every time for me. I just bought a Kimber Target II (in wimpy 9mm), and for the money I'm very very happy. Well fitted, great trigger, everything works like it supposed to, plus it shoots like a laser gun and it's been reliable.