Slide fire, bump stock prices

[rifleman0311]

Anyone else see the slide fires increase in price by $800 over the last few days? Saw one go for over 1,000 bucks and buy it now prices of 1500! What will happen to those who own them if they become banned? Register them or a government buy back?

[tobnpr]

I think a bunch of fools are soon to be separated from tbeir money....
I believe that they will be banned (and as an FFL, never supported them)- including retroactively.
Best case, apply for a tax stamp just like a MG.
"Worst" case, illegal to possess- period. Possible they will just ban future production- but there are so many on the market I suspect the ATF will rule they are illegal to possess (and will need to be destroyed). About to become pieces of plastic scrap IMO so those price gouging may get the last laugh.

No reason anyone should be allowed to possess what is effectively a machine gun, without the Class 3 process.

[JoeSixpack]

I seen some a day or two ago for around 125.

If they retro ban them you very well might never see that money back, the company that sold it will probably just file bankruptcy... if they require registration to grandfather then they really will sell for that much or more down the road.

It's a gamble imo.

If nothing ends up coming of it.. which seems very unlikely now that the NRA is giving it the nod.

Then you end up with something you may or may not even want and god help you if you bought a bunch thinking you're gonna cash in later.

These things have been on the market for quite a while and I never bought one cause I figured it was just another atkins accelerator waiting to happen.

I don't trust the ATF approval letters after that.

[Rembrandt]

If history is any indicator, look back at the assault weapons ban during the Clinton years. Owners of legislated items were not required to turn them in or have them confiscated. In those cases the items had traceable serial numbers, they were just reclassified by the BATF.

I don't recall anyone losing the monetary value even though they were legislated out of the market place. What happened was a secondary collectors market that made those items skyrocket to the highest bidder.

Is there a precedent for non-serial numbered items that are no longer legal? I'm not sure that's ever been done. If it has how were the owners compensated for the loss? Maybe the ownership of high capacity magazines in Connecticut that were outlawed is the model they will use.

[JoeSixpack]

@Rembrandt

Akins Accelerator.. read the history.

[Stats Shooter]

They are not that common. I only know of 1 AR owner, and I know a lot of them, who has one. They never caught on as much I am guessing because they alter the way you have to hold the gun, the way it feels, and the way it shoots. My dad has one and he has only used it a time or two because he doesn't really like it either.

However, unlike the Atkins Accelerator, this item was approved in its current configuration and so it can't be simply reascended by the ATF since the Atkins Accelerator that was sent to the ATF was not exactly like the one sold. ( in fact the one sent to the ATF was defective, it was either missing the spring or the spring didn't work).

My guess is that they ban ANY future sale or manufacture of these items meaning if you have one, you can keep it, but no selling it on armslist or gun broker, or at gun shows etc etc. Unlike pre 86 full auto's which can be sold with proper license and paperwork and as long as your state allows them. But these devices will not be transferable under any circumstance.

Sure a black market could arise, but if you are going to go that route, you might as well go after a real MG or auto sear since the penalty and fines will probably be the same.

[JoeSixpack]

Mississippi, That's what the ATF said anyway.. That's how they justified the reversal..who knows if something similar won't come out on the slide fire..

Point is they was collecting springs from those AA stocks and as far as I know owners did not get any reimbursement.

[Stats Shooter]

Point is they was collecting springs from those AA stocks and as far as I know owners did not get any reimbursement.

you are correct there, and without that spring, what was a $600 stock then became essentially worthless.

But again, the AA stock was out for a very short time while the slide fire stock has been out for the better part of a decade, and the ATF has had plenty of time to see them in action. There is no way to say that "they didn't know what it was or was capable of" at this point. Or to say they didn't know how it could be used.

[JoeSixpack]

I believe the AA was out for 2 or 3 years.. not as long as the slide fire I grant you but enough that a lot of people got burnt im sure.

Ultimately I look at the ATF approval letters as only as good until their next one.

[Stats Shooter]

Ultimately I look at the ATF approval letters as only as good until their next one.

agreed, but again, I don't think the NRA or conservatives are going to abide surrender or manditory turn-in.

I think since this won't be a unilateral ATF decision, it will be a ban on future sale or construction since it has/will become a political issue. It may however involve some kind of "SBR or Suppressor Type" registration or serial stamping on them however to ensure no future transfer. That is what I would propose if I was trying to make this palatable to the conservative base while still pushing through a ban.
The AA occurred under the radar. In fact, I didn't even know of its existence until after it was banned. And while I am not hip to every single new device that comes out at the shot show, I do mostly keep up with new stuff that comes out.

The folks I think who WILL ABSOLUTELY get burnt are going to be the guys who just bought 20 slide fire stocks hoping they could peddle them after a ban for $2,000 each. I would be a "C Note" that future sale or transfer is going to be outright banned in any/all circumstances such that if you have one, you register it and when you die it is destroyed.

confiscation of legally obtained property has never been popular in the US and while the ATF may have gotten away with it once, in this politicized situation it won't happen. However, there might be a mandatory turn-in with an MSRP reimbursment...but I give that about a 10% chance of happening with what I said earlier being 80%. The other 10% is that nothing happens.

[redline494]

According to my local CBS station, one can (or could) be had for under $60..
Because the media knows.

[JoeSixpack]

Originally Posted by Mississippi

I think since this won't be a unilateral ATF decision, it will be a ban on future sale or construction since it has/will become a political issue. It may however involve some kind of "SBR or Suppressor Type" registration or serial stamping on them however to ensure no future transfer. That is what I would propose if I was trying to make this palatable to the conservative base while still pushing through a ban.

I see where you're going I agree that would be a easier push, I fear they wont' have to make any concessions though.. I fear there is enough support already that they could push a retro ban on them.

in any event I don't see them leaving the door open even for registration.

Let's hope im wrong and you're right and the Anti's try to take to large of a bite and choke and nothing happens.. er well at least that's what I'll hope for.

[Green Lantern]

My local dealer can't find any to sell.

[johnwilliamson062]

I can't imagine it will be any worse than adding to NFA registry with stamp. Precedent for that and will severely restrict them. I believe serial numbers probably had to be added to some MGs in 1934.

[rickyrick]

The maker has stopped selling them.
I’ll try to find the article again and post the link.
One of the Texas Big Country news stations posted the article.

[Dane17]

I don't care. Those things suck for any kind of controlled fire.

I did order another binary trigger as that would suck if they want away. I've built a couple guns around those triggers that's I've really come to appreciate.

[JoeSixpack]

If the wording stands binary triggers are out too, along with trigger cranks.. We're not even sure if light weight bolt carriers wouldn't fall under the umbrella.

Im not quite sure how replica Gatling would do since they operate via crank by design.
Im guessing no exclusion would be carved out for it.

[Stats Shooter]

Feinstein isn't going to be the bus driver on this one. There will be weeks or months of debate on exactly what is banned. What exactly is an accelerator ? A lightweight BCG? A light Trigger with zero travel? An extra power spring?

What is an add on? Some of these lowers come standard with binary triggers.

I am an economist ....an Agricultural Economist. I worked in Washington for 1 year on the 2014 farm bill with days and months of Senate committee, sub committee meetings, hearings, briefings etc.
It had nothing to do with firearms, but it had all the same components as gun control. There was farmers, vs the EPA, vs insurance companies, vs foregin trade partners, with commodity group lobbies.

My point is, I know how Washington works, and how these things go. Feinstein will ask for the moon, the NRA will offer a small meteorite, and they will settle on a comet.

My guess is it will be a ban on external mechanical rate of fire enhancers. There will be talk of banning much more, but talk is all it will be. In the end, bump fire, slide fire, and Atkins Accelerator like products will be banned.

I'm not saying there is no chance of more, and that I'm misreading this, just that the NRA knows what will be politically palatable...and no serious firearms owners care about slide fire stocks(or at least very few). So it is a mostly painless bone they can throw to the left.

[AK103K]

No reason anyone should be allowed to possess what is effectively a machine gun, without the Class 3 process.

Thinking like this, is why we are where we are today.

[DukeNukem]

If they want to prevent bump firing, they're going to have to ban semi-autos or limit magazine capacity so much that bump firing is insignificant.

https://youtu.be/PVfwFP_RwTQ

https://youtu.be/XOW7G6d9zQE

[JoeSixpack]

OMG Every office is full of machine guns!

I just checked staples has 95 machine guns for a $2.39!
https://www.staples.com/Staples-Econ...product_143297

Im tempted to send them that video and see if I can get rubber bands pulled off the shelf.

[Skans]

My guess is they will do the same thing they did with DIAS's and "Street Sweepers". Ban new production after a certain date and require the ones that exist to be registered on a Form 1. Finger prints and photograph to own one.

The NRA caved and should have tied banning Bump-Stocks to the repeal of the Hughes Amendment.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

We already have two threads going on this. So since this one as moved to discussing the whys of banning, I'm closing it.

If you want to run out and spend your money on these, go ahead.